I've been to hell and back, and other Makaimura Miscellanies

[mikehaggar]

Congratulations!!!

And in other news, I've posted my Daimakaimura 1LC on youtube. Let me know what you guys think!

http://youtu.be/cWZK3irl_Rc

[mikehaggar]

Tomorrow on STG weekly, I will be a guest and we are going to be doing an episode dedicated to Ghouls n Ghosts / Daimakaimura. There will be two superplays presented (a 1LC and a speedrun of the console version), and commentary.

Starts tomorrow July 6, 2013 at 12:00CST

I hope you guys can make it!

http://twitch.tv/stgweekly

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I loved reading through this thread. This is such a great series; all four of the main games have a ton of charm, and they're so intense to play.

The first one is a little rough around the edges (some of the enemy AI is really weird, the shield / cross requirement is a little ridiculous, and there are some weird control quirks like the delay on standing up from a duck and the moving platforms) but I have a lot of fun with it. I'm inching towards a 1cc; my best runs have gotten me to the stage 5 boss (although I did credit-feed the game a while back, it was only last month that I started trying to beat it on one credit). I'm not especially dedicated to doing this since I'm not 100% sure that it's possible to completely learn the dragon and Satan bosses (this could just be me being a scrub, though), but I just play a couple of credits every day to see how far I can get.

Ghouls 'n Ghosts is one of my favorite games of all time. It is a little easier than the first one, but it improved on the first one in so many areas that I don't really mind. The chest system is a brilliant addition too. I actually managed a 1cc on this for the first time a few weeks ago, although it was extremely sloppy - I got one or two random 1-ups and still finished on my very last life.

Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts is fun, and it's probably a better put-together game than the first one, but it doesn't grab me quite the same way. I still like it, but it feels kind of slow - your movement is slow, the way enemies move slows down the game a lot, and most of the weapons are really slow (and almost all of them are so bad that they aren't even enjoyable to play with, which wasn't the case in the second game). The game isn't as fun to replay either, since a lot of the challenge is based around really predictable obstacles that are easy to beat once you've done them once, rather than having to deal with fast enemies who can attack you and vice-versa from a lot of different angles. Fighting Nebiroth with the goddess bracelet is the only really brutal thing in the game. The double jump is a great addition and the game does use it in some really fun ways, but this game still feels like a step backwards from the second one.

I haven't ever played the original release of Ultimate Ghosts 'n Goblins (the collection aspect didn't appeal to me), but I imported the Kai release and it's a ton of fun. It comes close to rivaling Ghouls 'n Ghosts, and it's awesome to see multi-directional firing and double-jumping in the same GnG game, but I think some of the additions (like the ability to fly, the insane overabundance of extra lives, and the increased focus on secret areas) slow the game down a tiny bit. Despite that, it's still pretty amazing, and I'm kind of sad Capcom didn't try to make another.

Also, Daimakaumra is WAY harder than the US version Ghouls n'Ghosts. I saw plays of the US version and it's laughable in comparison. Multiple checkpoints per stage, and there is a replacement armor every 2 chests in the US version!

Is that really true about the chests? Offhand I think the US version (the one I played) gives you standard armor every four chests, but I don't know how different the Japanese version is. I'm pretty sure the US version and Japanese version have the same amount of checkpoints, though - there's always just one around the halfway point. You might be thinking of the Genesis version; that one does give you checkpoints before bosses.

I also watched through that STGWeekly Ghouls 'n Ghosts video. That was really enjoyable to watch; I hope that series continues.

[boagman]

Despite that, it's still pretty amazing, and I'm kind of sad Capcom didn't try to make another.

Yet. You forgot to use the word "yet", there. Keep in mind the number of years that came between SG&G and UG&G...and never say never. I honestly thought that the series was permanently mothballed until they announced UG&G, and that one announcement (coupled with the fact that the originator was on board) led me to buy a PSP. I've never regretted it.

I, too, bought the import-only Kai version, and have very similar feelings to yours about it (though I'm not entirely against the prolific extra lives hanging around...maybe because I suck). I wanted to love the first release (and do, somewhat), but all of the ridiculousness of the flying, hidden-just-out-of-reach stuff, additional stages, and especially the use of the shields and different armors (with different hit points)...it did take away from what I consider the series to be, at its essence. They flew a bit too far, I'd say, and Icarus' wings did start to melt. Kai sort of brings it back to earth a bit, grounding it more, for the better. I do wish I could understand the Japanese writing on the screens, but I'll live.

Oh, and this is one of the very few soundtracks I've ever truly wanted. Bought it when Play-Asia had a sale several years back, and being able to listen to it in my car is a great, great pleasure.

[Edmond Dantes]

What's the consensus on Makaimura for Wonderswan?

[CIT]

I think it's rather nice (for a b/w handheld game). Not too difficult and has lots of secrets that are fun to find.

[Skykid]

What's the consensus on Makaimura for Wonderswan?

I really like it for what it is, very unique feel, a good novelty game with its orientation switching. Not too tough compared to the others, only real issue is overcoming slightly stiff controls and some irritating collision, especially when landing on certain platforms.

I've finished it twice though, one of my favourite WS games.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Despite that, it's still pretty amazing, and I'm kind of sad Capcom didn't try to make another.

Yet. You forgot to use the word "yet", there. Keep in mind the number of years that came between SG&G and UG&G...and never say never. I honestly thought that the series was permanently mothballed until they announced UG&G, and that one announcement (coupled with the fact that the originator was on board) led me to buy a PSP. I've never regretted it.

I, too, bought the import-only Kai version, and have very similar feelings to yours about it (though I'm not entirely against the prolific extra lives hanging around...maybe because I suck). I wanted to love the first release (and do, somewhat), but all of the ridiculousness of the flying, hidden-just-out-of-reach stuff, additional stages, and especially the use of the shields and different armors (with different hit points)...it did take away from what I consider the series to be, at its essence. They flew a bit too far, I'd say, and Icarus' wings did start to melt. Kai sort of brings it back to earth a bit, grounding it more, for the better. I do wish I could understand the Japanese writing on the screens, but I'll live.

Oh, and this is one of the very few soundtracks I've ever truly wanted. Bought it when Play-Asia had a sale several years back, and being able to listen to it in my car is a great, great pleasure.

That's fair enough. I guess Capcom making a new one isn't out of the question, but I have a feeling that Fujiwara coming back may have been a one-time thing, and I think I would be a good deal less interested in a new GnG game without him as the director. Or worse yet, Capcom might end up treating it as a third-string project and outsource it to another company that doesn't get the originals at all. Normally I'm not in the camp that would dismiss everything modern Capcom does, but I don't think I can see another UGnG coming out of Capcom nowadays.

I don't really have much of a problem with the huge amount of lives Kai gives you, but it does make the game a little pointless to try to 1cc. I don't think I would care if you just collected a lot of continues somehow instead.

[Bloodreign]

UGnG and Gokumakaimura Kai weren't the last games, there exists two more for Japanese cell phones, I'd love to some day be able to play them (they look like the PSP games). I too own Kai (as well as UGnG), the thing that really gets me to like that over the original PSP version was the fact that the collect-a-thon element was removed from gameplay, made the game feel like it's older brothers.

I have the other games in the series too, the GBA SGnG redo, the SNES one, Genesis Ghouls, NES Ghosts, the PSP/PS2 Capcom collections, and both Saturn and PS1 versions of Capcom Generation 2 (maybe GnG overkill?). Also own all 3 of the offshoot Gargoyle's Quests games, to me that was nearing the peak of Capcom's best days IMO.

[mikehaggar]

Is that really true about the chests? Offhand I think the US version (the one I played) gives you standard armor every four chests, but I don't know how different the Japanese version is. I'm pretty sure the US version and Japanese version have the same amount of checkpoints, though - there's always just one around the halfway point. You might be thinking of the Genesis version; that one does give you checkpoints before bosses.

I also watched through that STGWeekly Ghouls 'n Ghosts video. That was really enjoyable to watch; I hope that series continues.

I based my statement on the following youtube video: http://youtu.be/Kk1hGq-PKR0

Notice at 7:44 that chest has an Armor, which was only chest #2, then he gets hit AGAIN and gets another armor at 8:33, chest #4.
Now watch part 3: http://youtu.be/3HWmcXZOJb4
Look at 50 seconds. He dies on Stage 4 boss and starts right at him.

I'm not sure if this is the US version or what, but this is proof that some really easy arcade version exists. Or at least WAY easier IMO.

Also, glad you enjoyed the STGweekly! I too hope that the series continues. I'm currently trying to beat the first game on arcade, and it is really really hard.

[mikehaggar]

Recently I was able to 1CC the US arcade version of Ghosts'n Goblins!

This was super super rough and required a LOT of luck (as well as a tad bit of skill)

I nearly cleared the 3rd loop!

Superplay was recorded: http://youtu.be/bjQuOFV9xkg

Hope you guys enjoy!

(This takes care of the arcade versions of the series...time to take on their console counterparts! Will I succeed? )

[Pretas]

Gaming kickstarters hit a new low. Thankfully, Capcom has nothing to do with this.

[trap15]

I want to.vomit :I

Also laughed at bringing it "back" to living rooms hahahaha

[Bloodreign]

No, just no, too many kickstarters, and the ridiculousness of the premise of this game (the boss concept art looks nothing like the past games either) make me hope for a fail. UGnG didn't set sales records or anything, but at least it played and felt like a traditional GnG title, even more so the PSP Japanese updated revision, Gokumakaimura Kai.

[Necronopticous]

Is this a Tim & Eric sketch?

[drauch]

Good god. I'd love to start a Kickstarter to end their lives. I'm usually more offended by how awful the video introductions are on these impromptu garbage projects

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Recently I was able to 1CC the US arcade version of Ghosts'n Goblins!

This was super super rough and required a LOT of luck (as well as a tad bit of skill)

I nearly cleared the 3rd loop!

Superplay was recorded: http://youtu.be/bjQuOFV9xkg

Hope you guys enjoy!

(This takes care of the arcade versions of the series...time to take on their console counterparts! Will I succeed? )

Congratulations! I've been trying to 1cc the game for a while, and it is definitely brutal. I actually switched from World 1 to Japan G so I didn't have to deal with the sped-up stage 5 / 6 boss, though, but I made it to the second loop for the first time almost as soon as I switched.

I bet you can probably do no-continue runs of the others too. Super is easier than either of the arcade games, and Ultimate showers you with extra lives.

Also, to (very lately) respond to your other post, it's really strange to see that there's a version of Ghouls 'n Ghosts out there with such forgiving checkpoints and chests. I hadn't ever heard of revisions of that game with as many differences as the first game's, but I can say that the default version of Ghouls in MAME doesn't work like that.

[mikehaggar]

It's not just that the boss is sped up...it's that he takes twice as many hits! The game is nearly broken because of this...all you can do is play him as safely as possible and pray.

I'm thinking of going for a 1 life clear, but not this version.....maybe I can do an eprom swap on my board and convert to a more reasonable version of the game. Anybody that can 1 life the US version is absolutely batshit insane IMO.

I have 1 credited the first game and i 1 life'd the second game. I haven't beaten super or ultimate yet. I'm working on doing both extremely casually right now since work is so crazy. I will definitely get them one day! I love both games so it's only a matter of time.

Don't give up man! I can give you lots of tips if you need them. I use a lot of really good strategies in my run.

[jepjepjep]

Recently I was able to 1CC the US arcade version of Ghosts'n Goblins!

Congrats, man! I think I can hook you up with the Japan version eproms. I busted out my board yesterday and took a look, I think it's only two roms. What better time than on Halloween to play some GnG and Daimakaimura?

Also, to (very lately) respond to your other post, it's really strange to see that there's a version of Ghouls 'n Ghosts out there with such forgiving checkpoints and chests. I hadn't ever heard of revisions of that game with as many differences as the first game's, but I can say that the default version of Ghouls in MAME doesn't work like that.

Daimakaimura is the hardest. Ghouls (World) is the mame default and has the same checkpoints and chest system as JPN but enemies are less aggressive. Ghouls (US) is the easiest with armor every two chests, many more checkpoints, and bosses have fewer hit points.

[mikehaggar]

Jep: thanks for clearing that up! I didn't realize there were 3 versions of ghouls. Now it all makes sense! How do you know that the world version has less aggressive enemies? Can you give examples?

Also, yes, let's do the romswap soon! Can I always swap back or will the change be permanent?
We have to make sure it's the right Japanese Revision (There are 7 total arcade versions...which is insane!)
I think Japanese revision G is the last one Capcom put out, which seems to be the most balanced (and seems to be what they based their PS2 rerelease on)...

In this one the red devil takes only 4 hits (much easier), there is only 1 unicorn on stage 6 on top of the ladder (easier), and the boss scroll bug is removed (harder). Honestly, all these things do is make the game more fair and actually possible to skillfully play through without dying, with minimal luck involved (although there is still plenty of luck....it wouldn't be Makaimura otherwise!)

[jepjepjep]

Jep: thanks for clearing that up! I didn't realize there were 3 versions of ghouls. Now it all makes sense! How do you know that the world version has less aggressive enemies? Can you give examples?

I've played all of the versions, and confirmed with MKL who has the top score on MARP. The enemies in the World version are less aggressive in their patterns and movement speed, maybe even their respawn rate. One fun test is to count the number of hits the first stage boss takes. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was something like 7 hits in US version and 21 hits in JPN.

Also, yes, let's do the romswap soon! Can I always swap back or will the change be permanent?
We have to make sure it's the right Japanese Revision (There are 7 total arcade versions...which is insane!)
I think Japanese revision G is the last one Capcom put out, which seems to be the most balanced (and seems to be what they based their PS2 rerelease on)...

In this one the red devil takes only 4 hits (much easier), there is only 1 unicorn on stage 6 on top of the ladder (easier), and the boss scroll bug is removed (harder). Honestly, all these things do is make the game more fair and actually possible to skillfully play through without dying, with minimal luck involved (although there is still plenty of luck....it wouldn't be Makaimura otherwise!)

Turns out it's five roms to region change GnG to Makaimura.

[mikehaggar]

sweet! keep me posted dude.

[jepjepjep]

I got my first Daimakaimura ALL clear tonight!

I reached the second loop Beelzebub with three extra lives but had to loop through the level because I kept losing my armor before I could get the magic weapon. Reached Lucifer on my last life but managed to pulled it out. What a great game! I even managed to coerce my wife into playing a credit.

[Skykid]

^ Well done!

[boagman]

I got my first Daimakaimura ALL clear tonight!

I reached the second loop Beelzebub with three extra lives but had to loop through the level because I kept losing my armor before I could get the magic weapon. Reached Lucifer on my last life but managed to pulled it out. What a great game! I even managed to coerce my wife into playing a credit.

Very nicely done! I still love that game after all of these years.

[mikehaggar]

Congratulations on the clear dude! Now go for the 1lc! It's very doable, just takes practice and a bit of luck. The game is designed well enough for the effort to be worth it.

[jepjepjep]

Thanks!

A 1LC is going to take a lot more practice, maybe a task for another day. It took me about 30 credits over the last week to get to the point where I feel comfortable in all parts of the game. Now it's only a matter of execution and there are a lot of areas that can lead to a hit. I agree this game is designed really well, a true classic.

[mikehaggar]

It took me 2.5 more months after my first 1cc to actually get the 1lc, playing maybe 1 credit a day average. (and my first 1 cc had only 1 death!)

It is much more difficult, but always feels within reach! Just play a credit or two per day, and really try to learn every area, and just wait for the run where all the luck goes your way. I can give you tips!

[Squire Grooktook]

Got a 1cc of Daimakaimura myself too. I actually had to fight Lucifer twice due to a double ko lol.

I'm going to start going for a 1 life clear now. So far I've managed to make it up to Beelzebub on one life.

[Ex_Mosquito]

Nice work! Heh it looks like alot of people have lost a life. I did a 1-life run up to Lucifer too and then screwed it up because I wasn't quite off centre enough to doge the laser. It was a ninja run up until that point as well, only losing my armour a couple of times in the whole run. I find him the easiest boss in the whole game as well, bit annoying ;/

http://youtu.be/nOTVpx1_Whs