I've been to hell and back, and other Makaimura Miscellanies

[mastermx]

Capcom realising they pushed it a little far changed the rules to allow you to hold and switch between two weapons at once

So you can hold two weapons on the psp and ps2 ports? (I'm assuming we are talking about the capcom classics collection) I had no idea. Is this only during the second loop?

[Skykid]

Capcom realising they pushed it a little far changed the rules to allow you to hold and switch between two weapons at once

So you can hold two weapons on the psp and ps2 ports? (I'm assuming we are talking about the capcom classics collection) I had no idea. Is this only during the second loop?

Without going back to trawl through earlier pages of this thread, I think it is Capcom Classic Collection, yes. I think you can hold two weapons for the entire game, not just the second loop. Essentially this makes defeating Nebiroth's two forms on loop 2 a doddle (you can just hang back and get well away from his laser/flame breath and spam him with knives/crossbow, rather than being forced to point blank him with the bracelet.) Equally the two Red Arremer's on stage 7 can be tackled as they usually would, from a distance.

The only reason I can assume they implemented the change is because they realised they borderline broke the game originally. The Goddess Bracelet is slow firing and underpowered unless you have an armour upgrade, which is only achievable if you do 2-7 without taking a hit. Even then it has extremely limited range, making Nebiroth the hardest juncture in the game, IF you reach him fully powered up. If you get there in reg. armour or boxers, you're so weak that even if you manage to avoid all his attacks you may well run out of time.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

The armor I'm talking about is the white armor that let's your magic cover the whole screen. You can get it anywhere in the game. Without it I have to try multiple times to beat the very first stage miniboss. If you wanna see what I'm talking about, check out this replay and see at 1:05 how easily that miniboss is taken down with magic. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hAxedQBTKMQ

Oh, my mistake. Yeah, magic is probably even more effective in this game than it is in the others. I think the expanded magic system is one of its best new additions, actually.

Are you saying Goku-Kai is more trivial (easier) than Cho? At the moment it feels a little like dragging a lead boulder up a muddy slope - I'm not making much headway.

I've neglected to watch any videos yet, and perhaps I should. I'm sure practice will do the job, and I'm happy with a clear on Type A (3 lives 3 continues) however I get it (avoiding saves, of course) - but I'll be damned if it isn't proving tougher than expected.

Well, "trivial" probably is way too strong of a word. I think that, looking only at its stage design, Goku Kai could be called one of the hardest in the series (although I think it's still under the original) - but magic (which is incredibly strong), the ability to fly, and the huge amount of extra lives the game gives you take a lot of the edge off. I would say it is by far the easiest to 1cc, but the second-hardest if you just want to power through and not worry about continue limits.

I still haven't figured out a decent strategy for the Arremers in Level 3, and the dragon boss wrecks my shit more often than not.

Probably two of the roughest bits in the game.

I think my advice (which may not be too helpful since I beat it a few months ago) would be....for the first arremer, run to the right, climb up two ledges, and by then he almost always drops to your level and charges, so you can kill him fairly easily then. Sometimes you need to duck, though, since he occasionally flies in at an odd level. I fought the second and third ones by attacking them immediately and killing them before they take off (and I always took the high route, so the third one I mean is the one that runs in from the left), and for the fourth one I just used the standard red arremer strategy, which was basically just waiting for him to land and attacking him as soon as he lands.

If you approach the dragon carefully, you can get in a bunch of shots while he's still on the ground at the start of the fight. After that it's basically a matter of staying back, and doing the "jump back and shoot" maneuver.

I'm sure Dai is easier than Cho though, no?

Personally, I would probably put Ghouls above Super in terms of difficulty. Super does have some really nasty bits (most of the weapons are so bad - including the lance! - that you are really screwed if you get a bad drop, the Red Arremers are probably among the hardest to deal with in the series, as you say, and the final stage is very difficult with the bracelet), but in the end, I believe that it's a much easier game to learn. It's very knowledge-based - once you understand how to beat a particular obstacle, it won't trip you up again, and a lot of the difficulty comes from learning how to use your double jump properly. It isn't like the other games in the series that have a lot of random elements.

From my experience, it took me a couple of months to 1cc the first loop in Ghosts 'n Goblins and Ghouls 'n Ghosts, and a few days to 1cc the first loop in Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts (having credit-fed my way through the games a few years ago, so I wasn't starting fresh on any of them). I will admit that I never fully 1cced Super because I lost interest, though.

The PS2 port however, I think I can 2cc if I wanted. Capcom realising they pushed it a little far changed the rules to allow you to hold and switch between two weapons at once, meaning you only need to bring out the Bracelet for the last boss. That means you can essentially repeat two runs with the knife or crossbow (my preference) which is so much easier it doesn't even qualify as the same game.

I don't think this is actually the case. I originally played the games through the same collection and I didn't see any feature like that. It is true that, after beating the games, you unlock a cheat mode that lets you switch to any weapon you want whenever you want (something I think I never knew about until this thread), but it's not something you're given normally.

[Skykid]

I don't think this is actually the case. I originally played the games through the same collection and I didn't see any feature like that. It is true that, after beating the games, you unlock a cheat mode that lets you switch to any weapon you want whenever you want (something I think I never knew about until this thread), but it's not something you're given normally.

Ah, well that's completely different. Hold on... (goes searching)

The cheat in the PS2 collection

Right, it was this thread it was mentioned, but it's a 'cheat' - he probably meant unlockable, not sure. It definitely shouldn't be the default because it would completely change the game, so I'm happy to see it's more of an option.

Personally, I would probably put Ghouls above Super in terms of difficulty. Super does have some really nasty bits (most of the weapons are so bad - including the lance! - that you are really screwed if you get a bad drop, the Red Arremers are probably among the hardest to deal with in the series, as you say, and the final stage is very difficult with the bracelet), but in the end, I believe that it's a much easier game to learn. It's very knowledge-based - once you understand how to beat a particular obstacle, it won't trip you up again, and a lot of the difficulty comes from learning how to use your double jump properly. It isn't like the other games in the series that have a lot of random elements.

You're absolutely spot on, that's exactly how it felt for me in-terms of learning progression. If there's any randomness, it's with weapon drops. Certain enemies die and just drop things out of the air - especially infuriating on the spiral tower stage - which I'd say constitutes the largest random element in the game. Oh, and that time when I died and my flying bones landed on and collected a flaming torch, just in time for my restart. Unreal.
As you said, most of the weapons in Cho are useless, and there are loads of them! This is why I view it as a partially tactical facet to get your weapon of choice and try hard to avoid everything else along the way. Without a knife or crossbow the Arremer patterns are literally demonic - one of the most difficult standalone enemies I've ever encountered.

[Mortificator]

There's a button code that unlocks everything in the PS2 Capcom Classics Collection, including weapon switching for the GnG titles, but I think the normal way of earning that's on a game-by-game basis by clearing the second loops. Regardless of how you get it, you can save afterward and it'll always be part of your file. You actually have the whole arsenal available from the start, even the psycho cannon or goddess bracelet, though you're still sent back for a second loop as if you didn't already have Lucifer and Samael's kryptonite. It's nice for a spontaneous and low-stress run, "I'll switch to the torch for these enemies below me!" instead of "FUCK ME I PICKED UP THE TORCH FUCK."

Some of those details may be different for the PSP "Reloaded" version, I haven't played that.

[Skykid]

It's nice for a spontaneous and low-stress run, "I'll switch to the torch for these enemies below me!" instead of "FUCK ME I PICKED UP THE TORCH FUCK."

[Pretas]

The magic that allows you to absorb multiple extra hits without breaking armor in Goku Kai (check the hidden bonus area above Stage 2) is almost as prized as the winged armor. With both, most of the game is a cakewalk if you know the environments and take it slow. In the vanilla version, its usefulness was very limited, but in Kai where magic use is only restricted by a charge bar, it can be very helpful for outlasting bosses and tough enemy formations.

The caveats are that it takes longer to charge than any other magic, and you have to give up an offensive spell to use it.

[Squire Grooktook]

There's definitely some random dodging in Super Ghouls and Ghosts (Ghosts on stage 2, one eyed goblins and bats on stage 3, Axe Wielding spirits on stage 4, etc.), it's just not quite as omnipresent as Ghouls/Dai. I believe speed runners only pick normal because the rng on certain enemy spawns and patterns can be really nastier on professional difficulty.

Speaking of, does anybody know if there are any other differences on the higher difficulties besides just enemy spawn rates and whatnot?

[mikehaggar]

Makaimura arcade superplay posted! 1 life clear, game over at 8-5...

http://youtu.be/4sb6UKXG2S0

Enjoy!

[boagman]

Makaimura arcade superplay posted! 1 life clear, game over at 8-5...

http://youtu.be/4sb6UKXG2S0

Enjoy!

Very, very impressive. I fully admit that I didn't have time to watch the complete hour-and-forty-five minutes of the video, but I did watch the complete 1LC as well as the last 6 minutes or so of the eighth loop. I must say that, technically speaking, your 1LC was better than another I recently watched. By the time you were in 8-5, where you died, it was marvelous to just be *watching* you. The sheer amount of enemies/madness present onscreen when you finally bowed out with well more than 1.4 *million points*...it's amazing that anyone could go that far, that long.

Thank you so much for sharing that!

[mastermx]

Makaimura arcade superplay posted! 1 life clear, game over at 8-5...

http://youtu.be/4sb6UKXG2S0

Enjoy!

That was amazing. This is the best gng superplay I've ever seen. I'm so amazed you managed to go for that long on that beast of a game. Excellence!

[mikehaggar]

Thanks guys!! I appreciate the kind words!

[Skykid]

Like the comment says, God Tier Superplay.

Finally got around to tabbing through this. Never realised a loop could be done in 10 minutes lol, awesome skill. It's beautiful mayhem by the end, my girlfriend wanted to know why I was applauding the computer.

I thought you were about to buy it loop 7 when the Arremer jumped you stage one. I especially like the tactic of losing some of them by scrolling them off screen and doubling back as you did in stage 3.

Bravo!

On other related matters, I pushed through almost to the end of 3-1 on Goku Makaimura Kai today, which puts me just over halfway in progress terms.

Starting to get the hang of it now, superbly orchestrated game, but geez, if I could only read the Japanese manual... Knowing I can use shields to fly would have made progress that bit easier! It wasn't until I got to a point where you had to use it that I figured out the function even existed - after umpteen deaths trying to cross an acid filled chasm.

[Skykid]

A little while ago someone mentioned how good Gokumakaimura looked, and I said it hadn't left much of an impression on me (Jon Ingram?)

Well I eat my words. Adjusting from 2D to 3D always has a breaking in period, but this game looks and sounds absolutely phenomenal.

Made it to the last stage today - actually one credited through to the penultimate level, but got summarily abused in the volcano ascent and that stupid ring of fire boss.

I'm thinking I should watch a replay to see how the last stage is navigated, seeing as there are optional doorways.

[boagman]

A little while ago someone mentioned how good Gokumakaimura looked, and I said it hadn't left much of an impression on me (Jon Ingram?)

Well I eat my words. Adjusting from 2D to 3D always has a breaking in period, but this game looks and sounds absolutely phenomenal.

Made it to the last stage today - actually one credited through to the penultimate level, but got summarily abused in the volcano ascent and that stupid ring of fire boss.

I'm thinking I should watch a replay to see how the last stage is navigated, seeing as there are optional doorways.

See, I figured that you'd have to turn toward the light sooner or later, once you had Kai to work with. There's just no doubt: Kai makes a stupendous difference, doesn't it? I'm still not crazy about all the mechanics involved with flying, shields, whatever...they scraped a bit too close to the RPG genre for my tastes. However, that being said, Kai brings the whole thing a *lot* closer to its arcade elements/origins, and that's what I sign up for when I play any Makaimura game. I found the "This only allows flight for seven seconds!" stuff to be garbage, and basically unacceptable. It left far too much open to interpretation as to whether something or other was supposed to be attainable at any certain point. I *hate* that crap. Kill me brutally, yes, but don't be patently unfair about it.

And that music...oh, it's just fantastic. There's a reason I bought the soundtrack, and I *never* buy soundtracks.

[Skykid]

Ah, so it was you who mentioned the game's visual splendour?

Yes, you were right, it looks incredible. The soundtrack is similarly godly too.
I'm very impressed by the level of effort. Feels like a swansong, although I hope it isn't.

Regarding seeing the light with Kai, just to note I never played the original (Ultimate). I just read all the info and decided I like my Makaimura in the traditional sense, so opted for Kai first. I'm sure it's interesting backtracking and seeking out rings, and I can see the st a ge design is cleverly engineered for it - but I prefer the straight brutal gauntlet style of old.

[boagman]

I'm sure it's interesting backtracking and seeking out rings, and I can see the st a ge design is cleverly engineered for it - but I prefer the straight brutal gauntlet style of old.

I assure you that it isn't. Not only is it not interesting, but it feels *completely* wrong for any game in the series. Making me loop it once just to be a pisser? Okay...that's in line with the entire series. But there's a staunch difference between traversing the game twice and going back, forth, back, forth, back, forth, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. It's just *petty* is what it is, and it doesn't fit well with the series, IMHO. The GnG series is, as you've so aptly put, meant to be a gauntlet. Unforgiving, mean-spirited, and heartless, yes; running around in circles, however? Absolutely infuriating. Just let me *go*, already...you're beaten! Don't be a little b*#$% about it.

Kai makes things a *lot* more like they should have been to begin with. I've never been sorry I bought it at all. Nor the soundtrack.

[Skykid]

Went back for another crack today and made it to loop 2-2.

The first loop is definitely 1ccable assuming you keep the right goods - and even then recovery isn't overly difficult once you know the ropes. I'm sure I'll at least get that in the course of going for a full clear.

Silly me, however, assumed loop 2 would be similar to Cho and basically be identical bar the Goddess Bracelet.

How wrong I was. Loop 2 is brutal, they've upped the stakes quite a bit, and the matrix shield - my super weapon of choice - is nowhere to be seen!

Out of curiosity, if you change super attack from the special weapon required to kill the tlb, can I find it again on the last stage?

[boagman]

Out of curiosity, if you change super attack from the special weapon required to kill the tlb, can I find it again on the last stage?

Sorry, I'm having a brain-fart moment: what, exactly, is a TLB?

[Squire Grooktook]

It means True Final Boss.

By the way, how's the arrange mode on the GBA port of Super Ghouls and Ghosts?

[Skykid]

I like to think I have good resolve when it comes to tackling a game, but Kai's second loop tonight was torture for my enthusiasm. I think I lost about 6 credits on the volcano stage, most on the boss.

I've avoided watching any videos or reading guides, but I'm starting to think I might be missing a trick here.

Casual advice from anyone who's cleared both loops more than welcome.

[Marc]

It means True Final Boss.

By the way, how's the arrange mode on the GBA port of Super Ghouls and Ghosts?

Excellent. It's been a while but if I remember correctly the extra stages are loosely based on stages from the originals. Balll breaking hard as well. Gonna have to fire it up myself now, it's been a while.

[Mortificator]

Arrange mode's stage 2 in the middle route is a remake of stage 2 from Ghouls 'n Ghosts, with a Red Arremer as the boss instead of that fire dog. Stages 3 and 4 are remakes of Ghosts 'n Goblins stages 4 and 1, and stage 5 is new.

I don't enjoy the Border Down approach to stage progression at all, though.

[boagman]

I don't enjoy the Border Down approach to stage progression at all, though.

Even in Border Down, or just here in this case?

[Mortificator]

I'm not a fan of it in Border Down either, though there the scoring system is at least built around it.

[andsuchisdeath]

So I dug out my Super Ghouls N' Ghosts cart last night, and I've done several 1 credit runs within the past 24 hours.

I was able to get to the stage 7 boss on the second loop, and I was surprised how similar the difficulty level is to the first. I've been playing this game on and off since birth practically, yet i'm pretty sure this has been the first time I've accessed loop 2.

Anyways, can anyone confirm whether Super Ghouls N' Ghosts is easier than Chomakaimura?

If I'm going to 1cc this, I'd like to do it proper.

[Bloodreign]

I've not noticed any difference, except the hardware I play both on. US Version via SNES(hellooooo slowdown) and PS2 (no slowdown on this one), Japanese version via Saturn and PS1 (no slowdown for either one).

[mikehaggar]

So I dug out my Super Ghouls N' Ghosts cart last night, and I've done several 1 credit runs within the past 24 hours.

I was able to get to the stage 7 boss on the second loop, and I was surprised how similar the difficulty level is to the first. I've been playing this game on and off since birth practically, yet i'm pretty sure this has been the first time I've accessed loop 2.

Anyways, can anyone confirm whether Super Ghouls N' Ghosts is easier than Chomakaimura?

If I'm going to 1cc this, I'd like to do it proper.

From everybody I've asked about it, the US and JP versions are identical difficulty wise. TO play on the hardest difficulty, change the setting in the options menu to Professional Mode.
You can consider this the most hardcore mode, most true to arcade versions.

[Mero]

Thought I'd give this a quick bump to say that I finally got the clear on DaiMakaimura after playing on and off for ages. I triggered 4 score-based extends and got 1 item-based extend (which I thoght was a bit stingy) which means I lost 7 lives (including one in the final boss chamber) to finish on my last life. Large swathes of 2-4 we're done on my last life in my underwear (including the boss), thankfully 2-5 went a lot smoother and I no missed it. Final score: 220,500.

[Squire Grooktook]

Dunno if this is worth a bump, but a thought occurred to me recently that I thought couldn't hurt to put out there.

As much as I've come to prefer Daimakaimura's super fast pace and twitchy action over Cho's comparatively methodical gameplay (not that that's a bad thing, I love the tension on some of the double jumps), I think Cho really needs to be praised for its art and environments.

Seriously, it feels just right for a fantastical arcade shooter. Each stage is a massive departure from the last in terms of theme/element (water, fire, flesh, ice, it's all there), but they're all connected and transition fairly logical from one stage to the next. It helps that the art and set pieces are also pretty fantastic too. The Sea of Despairs crashing waves and music combo nails the epic feel, and the frozen forest (especially with that opening note) is just beautiful.

I'd really put Cho up there with Dragon Saber for having an utterly gorgeous world to explore for an arcade shooter.