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 Post subject: RQ: Bomb distributions for Mushihime, Ultra mode, rapid OK
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:56 am 



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 394
The PS2 port of Mushihime will be featured in my next local shmupmeet, and my goal for that game will be to clear stage 4 in Ultra mode using the rapid fire buttons. To pace myself, I have also set two sub-goals: to clear stage 2 and to clear stage 3. Of course, I will be using bomb distributions to reach these goals.

First, you may assume the following:
  1. The RAPID SHOT setting will be 2 and the RAPID FULL AUTO setting will be 2.
  2. I will earn the first "score" 1up in stage 2 and the second "score" 1up in stage 3.
  3. I will earn the 1up from the the giant bug in stage 3.
Now, look at the following Excel spreadsheet that tabulates the bomb distribution for each goal. I have also provided a tab-delimited version of this spreadsheet.The column headers mean the following:
  • s: stage number of the bombing location
  • t: section of the bombing location (either Trip or Boss)
  • o: (just ignore it)
  • p: for locations in the stage trips, the amount of stage trip completed before reaching this location (the closer to 100%, the closer to the end of the trip)
  • description: (obvious)
  • l: the number of lives remaining after using a bomb here
  • b: the number of bombs remaining after using a bomb here
  • e: the "easiness" of dodging this pattern if a bomb wasn't used here (the closer to 1, the easier the pattern)
  • r: (just ignore it)
How would you modify each bomb distribution so that I can most easily reach my goals (particularly clearing stage 4)? And what setting for the RAPID SHOT button should I use to destroy enemies the quickest? I can clarify any of the descriptions, discuss assumptions, and talk about anything else related to my goals.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Bomb distributions for Mushihime, Ultra mode, rapid
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:43 am 


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If I understand your notation correctly for boss patterns, the St. 1 1-2 pattern (two [major] streams of bullets aimed at either side of the player in three waves) may be a place you will want a spare bomb. The final shot of this pattern doesn't seem to be 100% predictable--sometimes it squeezes tighter downward than I'm expecting, other times it moves more to the left or right than I'm expecting.

1-3 double spirals: if you bomb on the last part of the pattern outlined above, it is possible to get in the middle of this pattern (eye of the storm). I can tell you what to look for if you want. This tactic does not come with a recommendation for or against. Sometimes I use it, sometimes not.

2-2 winder and spread and long aimed: I don't think you'll need a bomb here, as long as you don't try to make large movements. Personal ability and preference, I don't find this pattern hard to read. It was one of the earlier patterns I could confidently dodge.


Stage 2 I haven't worked very hard at yet. Maybe tomorrow or so I can give you some feedback on the distribution for Stage 2.

Quote:
And what setting for the RAPID SHOT button should I use to destroy enemies the quickest?
I haven't found a great setting yet. I'm still looking.

tangent:
inline edit: this information is wrong. Better information here
Yesterday, I tried to time (with W-Power) 20 volleys of shots with the A+ at various settings. This was not a video capture, just stopwatch, so the timing was off. My results suggested (no way for me to confirm) that A+ rates are roughly equivalent to 50/setting [20~=2.5Hz, 5~=10Hz ?]. I did not see a setting that looked like a special timing of 1000010000 or anything beyond equal time on-off. C+ rates confused me. The lower 10 settings look like roughly 20/setting [2~=10Hz]. The upper 10 appeared as small increments of .1Hz? counting to around 1.4Hz. C+ rates might be ~28/setting. Hopefully this can be figured out some day :)



Should you be wondering: I've put ~11 hours of different practice in this mode. Survival, working slowly on chaining, some credit-feeding, some rapid-fire experimentation. Not in a big hurry and I've not seen any videos of Ultra's earlier stages, so you might be able to accomplish more in less time.


Last edited by incognoscente on Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Bomb distributions for Mushihime, Ultra mode, rapid
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:45 am 



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 394
Just to make sure, inc, my notation for identifying boss patterns by numbers is as follows: [boss form number]-[pattern number]. For the boss form number, start with 1 and increment by 1 every time the boss's bullets transform into gold. For the pattern number, start with 1 and increment by 1 every time you see some significant pause in the current pattern. I'll put this up in my first post.

incognoscente wrote:
If I understand your notation correctly for boss patterns, the St. 1 1-2 pattern (two [major] streams of bullets aimed at either side of the player in three waves) may be a place you will want a spare bomb. The final shot of this pattern doesn't seem to be 100% predictable--sometimes it squeezes tighter downward than I'm expecting, other times it moves more to the left or right than I'm expecting.

I don't like unpredictable patterns, myself, so I'll consider placing a bomb there. But I'm a little hesitant to get rid of my "third...large beetle..." pattern in the stage 1 trip.

incognoscente wrote:
1-3 double spirals: if you bomb on the last part of the pattern outlined above, it is possible to get in the middle of this pattern (eye of the storm). I can tell you what to look for if you want. This tactic does not come with a recommendation for or against. Sometimes I use it, sometimes not.

Actually, if I use two bombs against this stage's boss patterns 1-1 and 1-2, pattern 1-3 might not even bother me. If this works, I can keep the "third...large beetle..." pattern. Try this:
  1. At the beginning of the battle, get as close as you can to the boss and hold down C and A+.
  2. When you see the boss fire the third ring of large bullets, fire a bomb right on the boss.
  3. Keep holding down C and A+. The boss won't fire the rest of pattern 1-1.
  4. Move down once the boss moves up the screen.
  5. For pattern 1-2, dodge it however you see fit, but use a bomb here.
If you follow these steps, you might be able to destroy the boss's first form just before the bottom of pattern 1-3 is about two Reko lengths from the bottom of the screen. I can show you pictures or even give you a movie to help you understand this procedure.

incognoscente wrote:
2-2 winder and spread and long aimed: I don't think you'll need a bomb here, as long as you don't try to make large movements. Personal ability and preference, I don't find this pattern hard to read. It was one of the earlier patterns I could confidently dodge.

Okay, what patterns should I substitute? I have this pattern listed in my "Stage 2" and "Stage 3" spreadsheets.

incognoscente wrote:
Stage 2 I haven't worked very hard at yet. Maybe tomorrow or so I can give you some feedback on the distribution for Stage 2.

I'll be waiting eagerly for your feedback. Thank you for helping me so far. :)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:48 am 


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Okay, I was understanding your boss pattern notation just fine.

I'll attempt the strategy you outlined for the stage 1 boss and try to get some more information for the rest over the next few days. I'm making this post now so there's less confusion if I don't address these concerns for the next couple of days. :)

BER wrote:
Okay, what patterns should I substitute? I have this pattern listed in my "Stage 2" and "Stage 3" spreadsheets.

Currently, the stage 2 boss eats me alive, so it immediately springs to mind, but I can't think of a specific pattern yet. I will try to keep in mind as I practice.
I'm not sure if this comes across in videos, but the Stage 2 boss can overlap some of its patterns. The mid-sized multi-way V pattern can appear over/under other patterns, as can the slowly spreading short-diagonals pattern. I prefer predictable pattern transitions, so this boss will remain a stiff challenge until I can approach it consistently.

I've printed out your distribution so I will hopefully be able to give better comments on the rest as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:36 am 


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The procedure you outlined for the Stage 1 boss works (with small modifications) with A+ settings 4, 5, and 6. I didn't try A+ setting 2. Will try to remember next time.

Modifications made:
1. not getting as close as possible to the boss, instead positioning ship 1/4 to 1/5 from bottom of screen, slightly off-center.
2. When the third ring of large bullets nears the player, bomb.
Then sit just below the boss's face, shooting, continue step 3.

The bomb freed from Stage 1 boss, 2-2 should be added to Stage 2 boss, 1-3, as that pattern takes two bombs to clear. This change can affect all distributions evenly.

You may want to lower the Stage 2 boss, 2-3 'easiness' a few points. This pattern is similar to Stage 1 boss, 2-2 in pattern vs. dodge timing.

For the Stage 3 tab, you have listed "body before head" (parts 1 & 2). If this is in reference to the large shield-shaped part, I don't think you'll need a bomb there. A short while after that part is destroyed, another part higher up becomes destructible and small snakes/worms will begin shooting. The bomb is much better used here. If that was already the plan, no worries. :)


In Stage 2, there is much interference from popcorn enemies during the second (?) manta--the one just before the first grounded moth. If you're not comfortable leading bullets, you might want to consider a bomb here. I'm not sure which bomb could be traded for this, should you need it. Two thoughts occur:
1. Usually I have less problem with the second grounded moth than the first. You could move its bomb here.
2. If you die at the mentioned manta, you will waste a bomb. If you bomb there instead of the first grounded moth, then the first grounded moth can happen two ways. Either you'll dodge its pattern or you'll have 3 more bombs available to you ;)


That's all I have for tonight.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:48 am 



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incognoscente wrote:
The procedure you outlined for the Stage 1 boss works (with small modifications) with A+ settings 4, 5, and 6. I didn't try A+ setting 2. Will try to remember next time.

Modifications made:
1. not getting as close as possible to the boss, instead positioning ship 1/4 to 1/5 from bottom of screen, slightly off-center.
2. When the third ring of large bullets nears the player, bomb.
Then sit just below the boss's face, shooting, continue step 3.

Okay, these modifications seem easier to execute. I'll accept them.

incognoscente wrote:
The bomb freed from Stage 1 boss, 2-2 should be added to Stage 2 boss, 1-3, as that pattern takes two bombs to clear. This change can affect all distributions evenly.

I've seen a player destroy the second boss's first form before it finishes firing its 1-3 pattern. It was destroyed about 4.8 seconds into this pattern (or about 6 large bullet waves passing through the bottom of the screen). If I can also destroy it by then, would I still need the second bomb? I can give you the procedure for destroying both forms of this boss if you'd like.

incognoscente wrote:
You may want to lower the Stage 2 boss, 2-3 'easiness' a few points. This pattern is similar to Stage 1 boss, 2-2 in pattern vs. dodge timing.

I consider this pattern now as the easiest among those that I've listed in my "Stage 2" and "Stage 3" spreadsheets.

incognoscente wrote:
For the Stage 3 tab, you have listed "body before head" (parts 1 & 2). If this is in reference to the large shield-shaped part, I don't think you'll need a bomb there. A short while after that part is destroyed, another part higher up becomes destructible and small snakes/worms will begin shooting. The bomb is much better used here. If that was already the plan, no worries. :)

I guess it's a part of my plan. To be sure, check this picture and please tell me if this is the part that's higher up from the large shield-shaped part:

http://shmups.com/beepreying/bbs/mushihime_bodybeforehead.png

incognoscente wrote:
In Stage 2, there is much interference from popcorn enemies during the second (?) manta--the one just before the first grounded moth. If you're not comfortable leading bullets, you might want to consider a bomb here. I'm not sure which bomb could be traded for this, should you need it. Two thoughts occur:
1. Usually I have less problem with the second grounded moth than the first. You could move its bomb here.
2. If you die at the mentioned manta, you will waste a bomb. If you bomb there instead of the first grounded moth, then the first grounded moth can happen two ways. Either you'll dodge its pattern or you'll have 3 more bombs available to you ;)

I chose your first alternative. In the credit-feeding replay, I remember the guy using a bomb on this manta-looking insect, so I guess the pattern is indeed more difficult than I expected.

By the way, did you clear stage 2 yet? If so, did you receive the 1up from passing the 10-million-point milestone before clearing this stage?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:47 am 


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BER wrote:
I've seen a player destroy the second boss's first form before it finishes firing its 1-3 pattern. It was destroyed about 4.8 seconds into this pattern (or about 6 large bullet waves passing through the bottom of the screen). If I can also destroy it by then, would I still need the second bomb? I can give you the procedure for destroying both forms of this boss if you'd like.
That would be much appreciated if it isn't too much trouble.


incognoscente wrote:
For the Stage 3 tab, you have listed "body before head" (parts 1 & 2). If this is in reference to the large shield-shaped part, I don't think you'll need a bomb there. A short while after that part is destroyed, another part higher up becomes destructible and small snakes/worms will begin shooting. The bomb is much better used here. If that was already the plan, no worries. :)

BER wrote:
I guess it's a part of my plan. To be sure, check this picture and please tell me if this is the part that's higher up from the large shield-shaped part:
http://shmups.com/beepreying/bbs/mushihime_bodybeforehead.png

No, the parts I'm thinking of are, I suppose, closer to 45 and 65% through the stage.
This picture is crude (two of the images are captured from an Original mode credit-feed video I had sitting around, one is from the credit-feeding Ultra video), but hopefully will illustrate the area I'm thinking of. The 'shield-shaped part' I referred to is what I have labeled as "Vambrace", the 'part higher up' is the section labeled "Pauldron".
Image
Unfortunately for my previous suggestion, I have not had a single difficulty through this section in any mode since my post, so don't feel the need to take my previous suggestion too seriously :)

BER wrote:
By the way, did you clear stage 2 yet? If so, did you receive the 1up from passing the 10-million-point milestone before clearing this stage?

I have not cleared Stage 2 with boss included yet, but I've not managed to reach the 10-million point extend while still following your distribution, either. To reach this extend during stage 2, you may need to remove the "midboss 1-1 spread shots" bomb. This will leave you exposed to the midboss's patterns, but will give you some time to develop a higher chain (imperative for score and consequently, the extend). I don't know of a place to move this bomb to at the moment, sorry.
I haven't had much opportunity or time to practice the past few days.



When discussing the Stage 1 boss earlier, I wrote that I hadn't tried the point-blanking maneuver with A+ setting 2. I have since tried it with no problems.
Also, if you've written down or commited to memory the modifications I made, I would like to make a small correction--I wasn't fully paying attention to what I was writing. Start in the center (not slightly off-center as previously described), then move slightly to either side. This buys an extra fraction of a second. It might not be required, strictly speaking, but I wanted to make sure I mentioned it, just in case.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:46 am 



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inc, the following is one procedure to destroy the boss in stage 2. It requires at least two bombs.

  1. To prepare for attack 1-1, go into point-blank range and fire C and A+ simultaneously.
  2. As soon as you see the 5-way spread from the boss's lower-left leg, drop a bomb on the boss's body.
  3. Dodge the rest of this attack suitably.
  4. For both attacks 1-2 and 1-3, move into point-blank range and fire C and A+. When you see bullets, dodge the attack suitably (you may use the A button only to slow down Reko). (The player in this video didn't use bombs. See what happens if you use them.)
  5. For attack 2-1, keep firing C and A+ in point-blank range while you're dodging the aimed bullets.
  6. Now the boss will fire three shotgun rounds of bullets. Try to dodge the bullets until the first shotgun round reaches the bottom of the screen. Then use a bomb. Patience is critical, here.
  7. Move to the left of the boss's face and below its left wings. That way, you can still attack the boss at point-blank range. Furthermore, if you're patient enough, then your shield will protect you from the shotgun bullets, and you will be well outside of the V-shaped bullet spreads.
  8. Now move to the boss's head. Dodge attack 2-3 suitably, but the boss should be destroyed before this attack becomes a problem.
If you can execute this consistently, I'll feel confident enough to eliminate three bombing locations: "1-3 lots of smaller lines and spreads again" (the new one that you suggested), "1-5 basically lots of circles", and "2-3 winder madness". I saw another fairly good replay dodging these patterns, so I figured I should prepare to bomb them, too.

incognoscente wrote:
No, the parts I'm thinking of are, I suppose, closer to 45 and 65% through the stage.
This picture is crude (two of the images are captured from an Original mode credit-feed video I had sitting around, one is from the credit-feeding Ultra video), but hopefully will illustrate the area I'm thinking of. The 'shield-shaped part' I referred to is what I have labeled as "Vambrace", the 'part higher up' is the section labeled "Pauldron".

{snip}

Unfortunately for my previous suggestion, I have not had a single difficulty through this section in any mode since my post, so don't feel the need to take my previous suggestion too seriously :)

Nah, I never planned to bomb the parts that you've highlighted, and I still plan not to bomb there.

incognoscente wrote:
I have not cleared Stage 2 with boss included yet, but I've not managed to reach the 10-million point extend while still following your distribution, either. To reach this extend during stage 2, you may need to remove the "midboss 1-1 spread shots" bomb. This will leave you exposed to the midboss's patterns, but will give you some time to develop a higher chain (imperative for score and consequently, the extend). I don't know of a place to move this bomb to at the moment, sorry.

For the stage 2 goal, if you can perform the above procedure well, then I won't need the extend, because I can eliminate the three bombing locations described above. I don't intend to bomb this midboss's attacks for further goals.

incognoscente wrote:
When discussing the Stage 1 boss earlier, I wrote that I hadn't tried the point-blanking maneuver with A+ setting 2. I have since tried it with no problems.

Nifty!

incognoscente wrote:
Also, if you've written down or commited to memory the modifications I made, I would like to make a small correction--I wasn't fully paying attention to what I was writing. Start in the center (not slightly off-center as previously described), then move slightly to either side. This buys an extra fraction of a second. It might not be required, strictly speaking, but I wanted to make sure I mentioned it, just in case.

Okay, this is good to know. Thanks, inc.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:08 am 


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First off, thanks for responding to my private message. [For possible other readers, the message was about a video of a player taking on the Stage 2 boss.]
I can succesfully dodge 1-1 and often 1-2, so I didn't really understand the logic behind the player bombing 1-1 but having to dodge the rest of 1-2 and 1-3. I developed a plan for the boss by using your outline as a springboard.


The following plan is focused on disarming the Stage 2 boss of several of its attack patterns. This plan uses 3 bombs and works best with Shot Full-Auto/A+ settings 2 and 4, though others are possible with small adjustments and bravery :)

Unless normal A is needed for slowing down, assume A+&C "Power Shot" for entire process. I prefer Trace options, but Formation might be able to pull this off as well (try at your own risk).

1. Prepare for 1-1 by positioning Reko 1/3 from left edge of screen, just below 1/2 from top.
2. Take out lower two legs on left and lower two legs on right.
3. An elongated fan (17-way?) spread should fire from the upper right. Bomb.
4. While bomb is active, center ship horizontally on the lowest portion of the boss that takes damage. As the bomb aura expires and the boss shoots a curtain of bullets, drop altitude. (This curtain fire has a roughly 160-degree blind spot. This is what we are exploiting here.)
*4b. You may need to drop altitude a little more for pattern 1-2.
5. Allow 2 fan-spreads to fire, then bomb and point-blank boss with the same maneuver as step #4. Continue to point-blank the boss as the spread clears. If it appears pattern 1-3 is going to be launched, you'll want to rapidly drop down the screen. (With sufficiently powerful A+ setting (2 or 4 recommended), the boss should not even fire 1-3 before changing to its second form.)
Second Form
6. Position ship about 1/2 down the screen, holding slightly left of boss's center. With boss's first shotgun volley, seek right. The rest at your discretion (leading or crossover).
7. When the larger curtain spam comes in, move down the screen to accomodate and prepare to bomb. Try to let all three initial blasts fire before bombing.
8. As the bomb is detonating, center horizontally on boss and move rapidly up the screen until you are sitting on the golden part of the boss. Move left and off the boss. You should be to the left of the boss's face and somewhere under its wing.
9. When the V spreads have cleared, move to under the boss's face, then drop to the bottom of the screen. Try to keep centered on the boss leading into 2-3.
10. Dodge 2-3 for a few volleys, end. (Sometimes I have destroyed the boss by point-blanking at Step #9 without having to dodge a single volley/flurry of this pattern, but it isn't always possible. The outline is written with safety in mind.)

I've created and practiced this plan with multiple autofire settings over the course of a few hours. Step #8 can occaisionally play differently. I might have a suggestion to change it in the future. The current Step #8 is the best I've found so far (many, many failed attempts at other ideas).
Ideally, this plan achieves full boss break while allowing the boss only patterns 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, and 2-3.


In regards to the distribution, this frees bombs:
"1-3 lots of smaller lines and spreads"
"1-3 lots of smaller lines and spreads (again)"
"1-5 basically lots of circles"
"2-3 winder madness"


Nothing else to write for today. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:44 pm 



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inc, thanks for writing up that outline. I'm relieved that the boss can be destroyed cleverly with only three bombs instead of seven! I'll try to use your plan.

incognoscente wrote:
I can succesfully dodge 1-1 and often 1-2, so I didn't really understand the logic behind the player bombing 1-1 but having to dodge the rest of 1-2 and 1-3. I developed a plan for the boss by using your outline as a springboard.

I think this player has trouble dodging the second half of attack 1-3, and he wants to save as many bombs as possible for the true final boss. So he wants to destroy the second boss's first form as fast as possible. He seems to know that this boss stops firing for a long time between attacks 1-1 and 1-2. Thus, he uses a bomb so that when his shield's gone, attack 1-1 has just ended. Now he has plenty of time to damage this boss with the "power shot" (from holding down A+ and C).

incognoscente wrote:
In regards to the distribution, this frees bombs:
"1-3 lots of smaller lines and spreads"
"1-3 lots of smaller lines and spreads (again)"
"1-5 basically lots of circles"
"2-3 winder madness"

I've made these attacks the easiest ones in all of my bomb distribution spreadsheets, now. I've even accepted that I won't get the first score extend in stage 2, so for my "Stage 2" spreadsheet, I've eliminated the last three attacks in your list, inc. Do you know of a better place to allocate the bomb that's currently placed on the first attack in your list, though?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:23 am 


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Many days with no chance to play.

I'm not sure which items are on the distribution and which aren't. For the "Clear Stage 2" distribution, I have these jotted down:
Code:
 s  t  o  p                            description                              l  b  e
 1  T    100     third and final large flying beetle plus medium flies          .  .  1
*1  B            1-1 scatter shot                                               .  .  11
*1  B            1-2 third wave of criss-cross pattern                          .  .  **
 2  T     25     second manta with crossfire                                    .  .  4
 2  T     30     first grounded moth with spaghetti spreads                     .  .  3
 2  T     40     midboss 1-1 spread shots                                       .  .  4
 2  T     75     second buried spiny beetle on left                             .  .  4
 2  T     90     second grounded moth with spaghetti spreads                    .  .  4
*2  B            1-1 lines and curves and curtain shower with legs              .  .  8
*2  B            1-2  lines and curves and curtain shower without legs          .  .  7
*2  B            2-1 shotgun plus curtain (like that one...)                    .  .  12

*I consider these bombs to be more or less locked in place.  These are the minimum you'll want to keep.
**in an ideal situation, the pattern is easy.  Unfortunately it is not, as I've mentioned, 100% predictable.

Yes, there are 11 locations and you'll be working with only 10 bombs. One needs to be removed.
I suggest the "first grounded moth with spaghetti spreads"--it is easy to clear this area of all other threats, allowing you to isolate this pattern better here than at the later moth.
I don't mind leaving the Stage 1 "third and final large flying beetle..." because I do not like Stage 1. I rarely need this bomb though. (Most of my runs I choose not to bomb here, though my personal goal for all stages is to use bombs on bosses only if I can.)


Had a decent run tonight--made it to the Stage 3 1-up head, then bit the dust.
I did not hit the 25-million-point extend, so I can't recommend for you to expect it in the "Cear Stage 3" distribution. The same changes to the Stage 2 boss apply to that distribution as well, so that helps a little. I haven't looked into this distribution very seriously yet. Maybe I can free up some time before the 21st. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:01 am 



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Thanks for presenting your bomb distribution, inc. I trust your experience more than my intuition, so I'll start using your distribution but with the "first grounded moth..." location removed (as you suggested). I also removed three bombing locations, which are all at the second stage's boss, from my "Stage 3 Clear" distribution.

Good luck clearing stage 3, inc!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:13 am 


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I'm not sure I'll be able to give a good evaluation of the Stage 4 plan before your shmupmeet, but I'll try to finish up the "Clear Stage 3" plan at least.

I believe you can hit the 10-million-point extend and procure the 1-up item found in Stage 3. Plus 2 bomb pickups (before Stage 2 boss, at body before 1-up head in Stage 3). 17 bombs to allocate.

The "Clear Stage 3" plan [version 1] has 20 bombs, which assumed the 25-million-point extend as covered in your topic post. 4 boss-related bombs can be removed from the distribution (mirroring the two boss strategies in the "Clear Stage 2" plan), giving 16 mapped with 1 unmapped.

For the Stage 3 boss, you can bomb into C and A+ point-blanking 3 times for the first form (the three bombs listed there now), but the second form only needs two bombs with this effective, if inelegant maneuver. The bomb location "2-2 madness" can be removed as the boss should explode before it fires this pattern if you bomb+C&A+ point-blank its second form.

Quick note on the point-blanking: for the first form, you'll want to sit on top of the boss while the bomb aura exists only. The boss is on the same plane as you, so you can collide with it, but it has small turrets at its bottom which will soak up many of your bullets if you don't position yourself above them/directly on top of the boss. For the second form, you can shoot it from very close below--you don't need to place your ship on top of it.
You don't need to wait out any of the bomb auras before launching another bomb on this boss, though some patience in this regard will help prevent stray bullets at the form change.

15 bombs mapped, 2 unmapped.

For these two remaining bombs, I suggest:
  • An extra bomb at the 3-way spaghetti spreads as proactive security--depending on your route through this area, you may find another bomb helpful.
  • A bomb between the two shoulderblade areas as the background moves to the right/player moves to the left shoulderblade. There are two larger enemies and many popcorn enemies that will fill this area with bullets. A bomb will do nicely to mop up some of the extra fire.



It is possible to do the Stage 3 boss with fewer bombs--I've done it with only 3 several times--but using 5 should be the very safe way to do it.

If you want a little more challenge, the second form can be done with only one bomb or none at all.
The "2-1 tap-tap the even-odd-even-odd etc" pattern fires in what I count as three small waves. First with only the guidelines (no even-odd). Second with guidelines and loose even-odd. Even when the guidelines fade, the even-odd remain to transition into... Third (final) guidelines+faster/tighter even-odd.

Second form, zero bombs (assuming C and A+ combo for duration): For the first wave, get as close and you can safely.
For the second and third, drop several (3?) ship-lengths down the screen to give yourself time to read the even-odd spreads so you can react to them. When the final spread clears, close the distance to the boss. It will start its "2-2 madness" attack. As the bullets come close, lower down the screen to compensate. The boss should explode before this pattern becomes a problem.
For one bomb on the second form, dodge the first two waves of 2-1. Bomb at or just before the transition to the third wave, point-blank.

I've also been experimenting with a way to reduce the first form to 2 bombs, but it isn't 100% yet and will be difficult to describe--I don't expect to have this finished soon.


Again, the 5-bomb point-blanking is the safest way through and the one I recommend for the "Clear Stage 3" plan.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:15 am 



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Hello incognoscente,

Basically, I've accepted your suggested revisions to my "Stage 3" bomb distribution, which you can review here:

http://shmups.com/beepreying/bbs/mushihimesama_bombDistn_ver2.xls

For now, I'll use five bombs on the third stage's boss. And I'll try to keep the proper timing of bombing this boss in mind.

Also, just before my shmupmeet (maybe this Saturday night?), can you please tell me the furthest you've been through the game on one credit? I'd like to have an idea about how far I can get.

By the way, I've seen a player use two bombs on the first form of this boss. And he destroys it just when the boss fires its third pattern, which looks like the carousel pattern of Dai-Ou-Jou's Hibachi.
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 Post subject: Ultra
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:52 pm 


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BER - As long as you can Clear Stage 3, you should be home-free to reach Stage 5. I've 1 lifed Stage 4 before, its got some nasty fast spreads on the two large crawling enemies, but you should be ok, knowing your skills :shock: .

You've just got to have a bomb ready for the Stage 3 Boss's final pattern (the one with the beautiful exploding spiral galaxy pattern), otherwise it'll just close you out as the galaxy spins.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:26 am 


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BER: I couldn't quite connect with the game tonight. I've still yet to reach Stage 4 with one credit (my time with the Stage 3 boss was spent in the Practice mode or using the stage Restart function).

To answer your question, nearly reaching the Stage 3 boss is the farthest I've gone in a single credit.
I have a feeling that I may reach Stage 4 the next day I can play with a clear head.

I may not have a chance to play tomorrow, hence the post now. :)


Good luck with the game and have fun!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:54 am 



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I've played Ultra mode for about one or two hours, and I think I played poorly. I only cleared the first stage on one credit, and I forgot how far I went in stage two before I lost my last life. I think the reason for my poor performance is that I'm rarely in a good position to destroy any enemy. The replay videos that I have make Ultra mode look manageable for a few reasons:
  1. They know where the enemies are located.
  2. They know which enemies to destroy first if they face multiple enemies on screen.
  3. They know how to jump from one enemy to another quickly.
  4. They are brave enough to move in at point-blank range when needed.
Basically, you can't get away with improvising your moves, because the game will trap you with lots of bullets. I think it'll be too difficult for me to conquer Ultra mode in shmupmeets alone. I probably need to buy this game and a Japanese PS2 and play this game for a few hours every day. That's too much money and time for me to invest.

DEL, thanks for the encouragement. And incognoscente, thanks for investing your time in gathering up some information for me. I'm sorry I couldn't return the favor with good results.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:25 am 


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Nah, your performance sounds about right.
Sometimes I feel I am also a poor player in regards to Ultra mode. Right now, I have 50 hours into the game (not all in Ultra) and I still can't always clear stages 1 and 2 cleanly.

I've had a feeling there are maybe three main categories of reaction to Ultra:
1. That's impossible.
2. That looks hard, but doable.
3. Okay, I've played it, it might be doable, but it's a lot harder than I was expecting.


I've never been to a shmupmeet and I don't really know your playing style. I didn't want to hold expectations. I think if you had around 4 hours dedicated to the game, you might have reached the Stage 2 boss at least. Again, I didn't want to weigh you down with expectations.

Don't worry about the results. I'm sure you put in a valiant effort. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:50 am 


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'The replay videos that I have make Ultra mode look manageable for a few reasons:' from BER

are these videos still available on the net?

if so, where? thx


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:40 pm 



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incognoscente wrote:
Don't worry about the results. I'm sure you put in a valiant effort. :)

Well, basically, I kept restarting each stage when I died earlier than expected until I achieved the results that I wanted. I've cleared the first stage with two lives and no bombs remaining a few times. And from this "save state", I've cleared the second stage once or twice. I never tried to clear both stages in one credit without restarting, mainly because I was distracted figuring out whether I could clear the third stage with only the bombs that I planned. :)

Mushihime's Ultra mode is quite fun, though. It reminded me how entranced I was when I was credit-feeding R-Type a couple of years ago. It's just that I would rather try to clear the first rounds of Ketsui and Dai-Ou-Jou before I dare try to play Mushihime again.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:55 pm 



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kawaijb wrote:
'The replay videos that I have make Ultra mode look manageable for a few reasons:' from BER

are these videos still available on the net?

if so, where? thx

I only remember one:

http://page.freett.com/scarletiris/movie.html

It's the entire fifth stage that has been completed successfully.

You can also try this search query:

http://www.google.co.jp/search?num=100&hl=ja&c2coff=1&q=%E8%99%AB%E5%A7%AB%E3%81%95%E3%81%BE+%E5%8B%95%E7%94%BB&lr=

The keywords in English are mushihimesama and moving image.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:51 pm 


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thx a lot BER,

I know that a 415ALL.rm video exist (160Mb), but all the links are dead/down


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