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 Post subject: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:34 pm 


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Just got a few questions about Guwange. For the record I'm playing the blue version, and as far as I can tell the difficulty seems unaltered. If someone could clarify this that would be useful.

Lots of people cite this game as being easy, but I'm finding it pretty brutal tbh. :|

1: Can someone explain how rank works in this. Is it all score-based and does dying drop it, or losing chain (or both?)

2: I've watched Prometheus' play through and I can't quite figure out how he's doing the boss milking. Seems tricky when you're trying to hold a chain. Could someone give a quick overview of the first three bosses (I think I have the centipede figured, I can manage two rotations of the pattern when it goes to the right and left of the scree so you can blow it's legs off.) The cat just seems way too pissed off to milk, I can't see anything for the bullets. :(

3: Having trouble keeping the chain leading into the stage 3 boss (cat) and the 4th stage mid-boss. Any tips?

4: Out of interest, if you bomb the 4th stage mid boss (snake) do you lose the bonus life?

5: General scoring/survival tips appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:36 am 


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Skykid wrote:
3: Having trouble keeping the chain leading into the stage 3 boss (cat) and the 4th stage mid-boss. Any tips?

I haven't played the Blue version, but on the "regular" game in MAME what I'd do is park my shikigami (or whatever it is) on top of one of the bullets scattered about by the enemies just before the boss until the latter appeared. Not sure if the enemies and such are the same in Blue, though.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:35 am 


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Quote:
4: Out of interest, if you bomb the 4th stage mid boss (snake) do you lose the bonus life?


Yes, if you bomb it to death it won't drop the health.

Speaking of which, remember there's an extra small health item+bomb in stage 3 if you destroy the large statue first (when the screen scrolls right then up early on, look in the lower right corner; there's a number of statues and one of them will be larger than the rest, seems to be randomized). There's also the full health item the spider drops in stage 6 that's pretty much crucial to get.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:46 am 


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Quote:
1: Can someone explain how rank works in this. Is it all score-based and does dying drop it, or losing chain (or both?)

1. I can't say for sure about the rank in the blue version, but it seems like it inherited the rank system from the original. So basically the higher the score and chain, the higher the rank. Dying and losing your chain will lower your rank.

Quote:
2: I've watched Prometheus' play through and I can't quite figure out how he's doing the boss milking.

2. He's using Hold "C" and Tap "A" method where he parks his spirit on the boss and raise and lowers the skull meter for gold coins (common practice for high scores). In blue, you can't quite milk the bosses as well in the original. You can still hold "C" and tap "A", but you don't get as much coins. The only good thing you can milk during a boss fight are "highlighting" bullets and destroying an object. Haven't played much in blue to get in depth with boss tatics.

Quote:
3: Having trouble keeping the chain leading into the stage 3 boss (cat) and the 4th stage mid-boss. Any tips?

3. Just leave some bullets on the screen and "park" you spirit on top of them before the boss battle.

Quote:
4: Out of interest, if you bomb the 4th stage mid boss (snake) do you lose the bonus life?

4. yes

Quote:
5: General scoring/survival tips appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help.

5. In blue, any bullets you touch turns pinkish and any enemy you kill afterward converts those bullets into coins.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:37 pm 


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Thanks for the info guys, I'll just pick up on a few things then:

Quote:
park my shikigami (or whatever it is) on top of one of the bullets scattered about by the enemies just before the boss until the latter appeared.


I think the formations are all the same, but I didn't realise you can use bullets to keep the chain from dropping! :idea: This whole time I thought you needed to hold it on enemies (and destroy them) to keep the meter up. Does this mean I can trap a single bullet even and the chain won't fall?

BareknuckleRoo wrote:
Quote:
4: Out of interest, if you bomb the 4th stage mid boss (snake) do you lose the bonus life?


Yes, if you bomb it to death it won't drop the health.

Speaking of which, remember there's an extra small health item+bomb in stage 3 if you destroy the large statue first (when the screen scrolls right then up early on, look in the lower right corner; there's a number of statues and one of them will be larger than the rest, seems to be randomized). There's also the full health item the spider drops in stage 6 that's pretty much crucial to get.


Cool thanks, that's what I figured. I got the stg3 statue life&bomb the first two times I attempted it, but then it seems really hit and miss and I don't know why. It's the statue right in the lower right corner isn't it? I just put my Shikigami on it as soon as the screen changes direction and always destroy it, but it doesn't always seem to drop the goodies. :(

Tyjet wrote:
1. I can't say for sure about the rank in the blue version, but it seems like it inherited the rank system from the original. So basically the higher the score and chain, the higher the rank. Dying and losing your chain will lower your rank.


And is the rank in Guwange generally considered bastardly, or is it just me? My top score is just over 500k so far, and when I'm doing reasonable well the cat boss is just a haze of bullets.

Quote:
2. He's using Hold "C" and Tap "A" method where he parks his spirit on the boss and raise and lowers the skull meter for gold coins (common practice for high scores). In blue, you can't quite milk the bosses as well in the original. You can still hold "C" and tap "A", but you don't get as much coins. The only good thing you can milk during a boss fight are "highlighting" bullets and destroying an object. Haven't played much in blue to get in depth with boss tatics.


Right, that's useful thanks. For the hold C tap A method, may I ask how frequent tapping A should be to keep the chain? I sort of get the feeling looking at the skull meter it requires a split second of the button being held before it engages. Would tapping it super quickly fail to work?

Quote:
5. In blue, any bullets you touch turns pinkish and any enemy you kill afterward converts those bullets into coins.


Isn't that the same in vanilla Guwange?
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:54 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
Cool thanks, that's what I figured. I got the stg3 statue life&bomb the first two times I attempted it, but then it seems really hit and miss and I don't know why. It's the statue right in the lower right corner isn't it? I just put my Shikigami on it as soon as the screen changes direction and always destroy it, but it doesn't always seem to drop the goodies. :(


There are 4 statues in the lower right corner, and in each run a random one of the 4 is a larger/different statue than the other 3. You have to kill the large statue before any of the others to get the goods.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:12 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
For the record I'm playing the blue version, and as far as I can tell the difficulty seems unaltered. If someone could clarify this that would be useful.

Lots of people cite this game as being easy, but I'm finding it pretty brutal tbh. :|


Blue has a bit more bullet clearing (what Tyjet mentioned) and tweaked patterns on bosses that can be harder (stage 4 ending) or easier (the final pattern), but it's not that different difficulty wise. Guwange is only considered an easy game due to the full life item on stage 6 really... so if you can get to stage 6 you get three new lives, so only the final boss is a problem (namely the final pattern).

Milking works differently in Blue compared to Arcade, so don't expect to get the sort of scores Prometheus did, and don't worry about it until you're comfortable with the game. Boss milking in Arcade is the hardest part of the game, and the risk/reward ratios are very different in Blue, though the lack of very good replays makes it hard to tell what's the optimal way to score.

It's a given the first thing you need to do is fully chain the game, though!


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:08 pm 


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Quote:
And is the rank in Guwange generally considered bastardly, or is it just me? My top score is just over 500k so far, and when I'm doing reasonable well the cat boss is just a haze of bullets.

In my opinion, yes. If you do fairly decent in scoring and have around 6000 coins at the beginning of stage 3, you will see a GREAT increase of difficulty mid way through. By the time you get to spider cat, bullet speed is going to be extremely fast.

Quote:
Right, that's useful thanks. For the hold C tap A method, may I ask how frequent tapping A should be to keep the chain? I sort of get the feeling looking at the skull meter it requires a split second of the button being held before it engages. Would tapping it super quickly fail to work?

This method is going to take some memorization and habit. I'd say 0.5-0.7 seconds for a tap?? It's just enough to turn the skull meter gold and lower it. Tapping quickly is useless because the meter requires the button to be held a certain amount if milliseconds to fill up.

Quote:
Isn't that the same in vanilla Guwange?

I should of said flashing bullets instead of pinkish. In blue, bullet colors are blue, flashing blue/pink, and pink. Touching blue bullets will turn them to flashing blue/pink. Which you can convert to coins anytime when you kill an ememy. You will not have to constant hold the bullets and kill an enemy at the same time as in the original.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:25 am 


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Aliquantic wrote:
Skykid wrote:
For the record I'm playing the blue version, and as far as I can tell the difficulty seems unaltered. If someone could clarify this that would be useful.

Lots of people cite this game as being easy, but I'm finding it pretty brutal tbh. :|


Blue has a bit more bullet clearing (what Tyjet mentioned) and tweaked patterns on bosses that can be harder (stage 4 ending) or easier (the final pattern), but it's not that different difficulty wise. Guwange is only considered an easy game due to the full life item on stage 6 really... so if you can get to stage 6 you get three new lives, so only the final boss is a problem (namely the final pattern).

Milking works differently in Blue compared to Arcade, so don't expect to get the sort of scores Prometheus did, and don't worry about it until you're comfortable with the game. Boss milking in Arcade is the hardest part of the game, and the risk/reward ratios are very different in Blue, though the lack of very good replays makes it hard to tell what's the optimal way to score.

It's a given the first thing you need to do is fully chain the game, though!


Cool, thank you! I'm considering going back to vanilla to see how I fare.

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Skykid wrote:
Cool thanks, that's what I figured. I got the stg3 statue life&bomb the first two times I attempted it, but then it seems really hit and miss and I don't know why. It's the statue right in the lower right corner isn't it? I just put my Shikigami on it as soon as the screen changes direction and always destroy it, but it doesn't always seem to drop the goodies. :(


There are 4 statues in the lower right corner, and in each run a random one of the 4 is a larger/different statue than the other 3. You have to kill the large statue before any of the others to get the goods.


Right, about to have another shot. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Quote:
I should of said flashing bullets instead of pinkish. In blue, bullet colors are blue, flashing blue/pink, and pink. Touching blue bullets will turn them to flashing blue/pink. Which you can convert to coins anytime when you kill an ememy. You will not have to constant hold the bullets and kill an enemy at the same time as in the original.


Ah I see, so it's basically easier to cancel more bullets in blue. I'm getting it now.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:00 am 


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whoo, progress. 827, 5514.

I got to that spider nest with a sliver of life and bombed right at the beginning. I didn't think the bomb actually hit the spider I needed to shoot at the end, but it didn't dropped anything which basically meant I was done for. Does bombing anywhere in that area mean it's not going to get dropped?
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:24 am 


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Skykid wrote:
whoo, progress. 827, 5514.

I got to that spider nest with a sliver of life and bombed right at the beginning. I didn't think the bomb actually hit the spider I needed to shoot at the end, but it didn't dropped anything which basically meant I was done for. Does bombing anywhere in that area mean it's not going to get dropped?


In the last stage? Bombing the spiders will not give you the life. You have to kill four spiders to get a life (starting from small, medium and large). I think as long as you kill them with your spirit or shot, they will appear.

Btw, You can read more about tactics (original version) here:
http://www.siliconera.com/2010/11/17/ca ... ge-part-1/
http://www.siliconera.com/2010/11/24/ca ... ge-part-2/
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:54 am 


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Tyjet wrote:


^ That's fantastic, I didn't know Cave translated a guide on their blog, but it's really got everything you need to know. Surprisingly concise too!
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:49 pm 


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Those tactics are very helpful, I'm feeling more comfortable with the game now. Makes a lot more sense to put the familiar above the boss and allow the bullet patterns to run their natural course - it gets so wild when they start bunching up.

One question regarding the stage 6 food drops (spiders). I've seen conflicting info on these. The guide and you guys say they drop increasingly large food items for every four spiders you destroy, but I saw an excerpt from a Japanese mag that suggests the large hamper is dropped by one spider in particular right at the end of the fencing. Which is correct?
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:38 pm 


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I just watched my own replay and it does seem like a specific spider(s) have the life items. I don't know which is correct since the life items always appears for me in that part of the stage. The mag excerpt is probably more valid than the online guide. You may have to research it and see for yourself in training mode.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:03 pm 


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Tyjet wrote:
I just watched my own replay and it does seem like a specific spider(s) have the life items. I don't know which is correct since the life items always appears for me in that part of the stage. The mag excerpt is probably more valid than the online guide. You may have to research it and see for yourself in training mode.


I'm on PCB, no training mode for me. Thanks for the info though, I'll look out next time I make it there.

Any tips on which character to use. I've been using Kosame, but tried Gensuke a couple of times and he seems stronger and slightly easier to make good distance with. But then all the top scorers seem to use Shishin so...
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:44 pm 


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I prefer Shishin too, because of his directional shot. His shot is weak which mean you can milk bosses a bit longer.

You should read this post (and thread) here:
viewtopic.php?p=244089#p244089
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:58 am 


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Skykid wrote:
Tyjet wrote:
I just watched my own replay and it does seem like a specific spider(s) have the life items. I don't know which is correct since the life items always appears for me in that part of the stage. The mag excerpt is probably more valid than the online guide. You may have to research it and see for yourself in training mode.


I'm on PCB, no training mode for me. Thanks for the info though, I'll look out next time I make it there.

Any tips on which character to use. I've been using Kosame, but tried Gensuke a couple of times and he seems stronger and slightly easier to make good distance with. But then all the top scorers seem to use Shishin so...

Woah you have a Guwange Blue PCB? (or is it one of those reburned ones that I hear guys have been working on since the ROMs for it got dumped for MAME?)

As for me, I use Shishin all the way. For some reason his Shikigami feels more powerful, he looks badass in general and the directional shot really helps in some parts.

If you have a 360, you should definitely get the port. It's great for practicing Blue mode. I find that the mode in general is easier than Arcade partially due to the cancelling blue/pink flash thing but it just feels a lot less difficult as if the rank was lowered for the initial stages (not that I'd worry about rank much in this case though).
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:38 pm 


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BPzeBanshee wrote:
Skykid wrote:
Tyjet wrote:
I just watched my own replay and it does seem like a specific spider(s) have the life items. I don't know which is correct since the life items always appears for me in that part of the stage. The mag excerpt is probably more valid than the online guide. You may have to research it and see for yourself in training mode.


I'm on PCB, no training mode for me. Thanks for the info though, I'll look out next time I make it there.

Any tips on which character to use. I've been using Kosame, but tried Gensuke a couple of times and he seems stronger and slightly easier to make good distance with. But then all the top scorers seem to use Shishin so...

Woah you have a Guwange Blue PCB? (or is it one of those reburned ones that I hear guys have been working on since the ROMs for it got dumped for MAME?)

As for me, I use Shishin all the way. For some reason his Shikigami feels more powerful, he looks badass in general and the directional shot really helps in some parts.

If you have a 360, you should definitely get the port. It's great for practicing Blue mode. I find that the mode in general is easier than Arcade partially due to the cancelling blue/pink flash thing but it just feels a lot less difficult as if the rank was lowered for the initial stages (not that I'd worry about rank much in this case though).


I can't justify a 360 port when I have arcade hardware just yet.

There are no Blue pcb's as such, only romswaps as you suggested. :wink:

I'm going to do some experimenting with all characters. I like Shishin too, but sometimes I feel as though the sway shot can be as much of a negative as a positive, depending the maneuvers I need to make to avoid being hit.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Guwange tactics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:14 am 


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I don't think anyone posted this article but Ive gotten a lot of useful information from this one:

http://www.world-of-arcades.net/Cave/Gu ... /index.htm

From what I understand about milking, part of the trick is intermittently tapping the shikigami button while training the constant autofire on the boss. This also works during parts In the game when a bunch of bats fly in. Just keep tapping the shikigami and if you time it right you should get lots of coins and be able to maneuver your character about as well as when using the standard autofire.

By the way, from what I can see with blue mode, the biggest difference is the combo meter is a bit easier to maintain and you can definitely find it easier to run your coin counter past 1000. Also, it's easier to see which bullets are cancel able because they turn a turn a purplish color (that way you don't have to guess which bullets may be canceled after destroying a nearby enemy).

Also, I believe I noticed the final boss was a bit easier... It didn't seem to take forever to whittle down at the end of the final bullet pattern. I enjoy blue mode more than the original because it seems to be a rebalancing of the original games minor issues. It should not be all that much easier to 1cc than the original, but if you are new to the system, it should seem a bit easier in regards to canceling bullets.
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