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 Post subject: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:10 pm 


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I figured that posting this in the Strategy Section (apart from the main thread) was a good idea. Not to mention, this is going to get pretty screenshot heavy (I'll post video after I've had a chance to compress and upload to Youtube). I'll be updating bit by bit as I have time to go through and take screenshots from both versions.

All these image were taken before an acceptable method to display full-screen tate on 4:3 tvs was found (set the 360 Display to Anamorphic Widescreen in the main system submenus, then under the Screen option in game, change the Wallpaper to 'Type Clear'). Unfortunately for the PS3 players, this fix only works on the 360 version.

NB: all screenshots were taken as-is from the source video (I did not alter over-scan or perform any resizing). All capturing was done through S-Video at 480i (in tate) on a Hauppauge HD-PVR. The DC is on the left and the 360 version of HD is on the right.

Stage 1:

Stage 2:

Near the beginning of the stage, it is possible to drill the water tower for additional score by targeting one of the trucks parked near the transport ship. In the HD version, the target tracking suffers from an odd glitch where it simply stops targeting altogether (the stream of fire going past the tower doesn't hit anything).
Image

While attacking the pair of docked battleships, the cannon on the bow of the craft remains an active target longer in the HD version than in the NAOMI/DC version. At the point when the screenshot was taken, the cannon has just become inactive in the DC version, but remains active in the HD version for nearly an additional second.
Image

Whilst attacking the first battle ship out at sea, the smaller cannons near the second large cannon can be hit by rocket splash damage from offscreen in the HD version (despite the slightly different times that the shots were taken, this is constant regardless of location). Look at the bonus damage counter.
Image

Same battleship, the bridge becomes an active target sooner in the HD version (even though the hit flash didn't come out in the screen shot, the ricochet flack from the copter's fire can be seen bounding off the tower, demonstrating that it can shot).
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During the boss battle, the main bridge remains an active target for the duration of the battle in the HD version. In the NAOMI/DC version, as soon as the first green chopper on the right appears, the tower becomes inactive until the boss timer appears (the explosion in both images is the first chopper on the right being destroyed).
Image

Stage 3:

As the midboss moves onto the screen, each of its smaller swivel cannons begin firing at the player in the NAOMI/DC version. In the HD version, the swivel cannons don't fire until the midboss in completely on screen.
Image

Stage 4:

The formation of 2 heavily armoured tanks, 1 rocket battery and limo that enter from the upper-left near the start of the level begin firing much sooner (in particular, the rocket battery fires well before it's onscreen, making Option Pod deployment difficult). In the 360 shot (which was taken several frames earlier than the DC shot), an enemy rocket can already be seen beneath the remaining lives.
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Towards the end of the stage, a formation of 3 small green helicopters descends. In the DC version, they begin firing shortly after entering the active plain. This time has been lengthened in the HD version (in fact, the chopper on the right never gets a chance to fire at me in the HD version as a result).
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Just a general example of the difference in bullet pattern density between both versions.
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In this final area of 3 cannon turrets (2 small, one large) right before the boss, it's possible to prevent one of the smaller turrets from firing by moving it offscreen in the DC version. In the HD version, the cannon tracks and fires at the player regardless of location.
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It's a bit difficult to see in this image, but the reticle lock-on for the smaller cannon tracking during the boss fight is incorrect in the HD version. In the DC version, the player's shots track in a straight line right down to each cannon (as they should). In the HD version, the shots spray wildly, making the cannons more difficult to destroy.
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When the boss sweeps its searchlight over the player, the screen goes completely white, save for enemy fire in the DC version. In the HD version, it is still possible to see the player's fire (the thin vertical yellow lines). Also, the main turret's bullets are shaped differently in each version.
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There is missing geometry in the HD version. Behind the boss tower are two large defensive walls. The second rear wall is missing in the HD version (there's just a void there which is far more obvious in loop 2 and in New Order Mode in general).
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Stage 5:

http://youtu.be/jmoUUJek2ZA
This comparison video demonstrates many of the issues with the HD version that can't be shown in simple screen shots.
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Last edited by Kiken on Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:57 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:28 pm 


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Thanks for this!


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:02 pm 


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Nice work. I should bust out nulldc to make something similar for the ST. Forgot all about that (and now I've got hardware capable of handling it).
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:11 pm 


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Thanks KIK! Very interesting read!
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:47 pm 


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Thank you! Nice work!

(I have found HD version: there is no propeller, the water mirror image - Stage 5 , middle boss area)


Last edited by MagicT on Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:25 am 


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Awesome post! Thanks!
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:18 pm 


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I am assuming the DC was through a CRT and not VGA/ In fact I know it was, you sort of alluded to it above.

Also, not sure if it's anything to do with the two versions or just my ability but in the DC version I could always get the two cows at the start of Stage 1. Now I can only ever get the first one . Odd it should concern me too being a tree hugger and all lol.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:08 pm 


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Maybe the most significant difference is that the second phase of the final boss seems a lot easier in the HD version, thanks to all of the extra slowdown. For example, the twin gatling guns are easy to dodge, as are the shots from the two outermost cannons. I've only played the DC version briefly though, I'm just judging by videos.

Great work on the guide by the way. :)
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:59 pm 


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It is still possible to hit the water tower in stage 2 of the HD version, but it does seem a little temperamental. The little I've experimented it seems that if you fire a diagonal shot over it and then line up behind it and fire straight it won't lock, but if you only fire straight at it you can still score off it.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:02 pm 


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After playing it again many times the water tower in stage 2 is still very hittable for many points, so that difference isn't there unless you are suggesting a subtlety that I'm not understanding.

"It's a bit difficult to see in this image, but the reticle lock-on for the smaller cannon tracking during the boss fight is incorrect in the HD version. In the DC version, the player's shots track in a straight line right down to each cannon (as they should). In the HD version, the shots spray wildly, making the cannons more difficult to destroy"


I assume you are talking about the ability to lock onto the two outer turrets that spawn with the 4th boss initially. If that is the case I agree that destroying them is harder than in the DC version. They seem to absorb so much ammo, and (whilst I can't say I've noticed shots missing) I assume this is the reason.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:31 pm 


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DrTrouserPlank wrote:
After playing it again many times the water tower in stage 2 is still very hittable for many points, so that difference isn't there unless you are suggesting a subtlety that I'm not understanding.


Yes, you can still hit the tower for additional score in the HD version, but the player must actively track the tower and stay within a specific range to it, or the odd tracking shown in the screen-shot will occur. This does not happen in the NAOMI or DC version. If the angle of your shot either goes under or over the active hit location of the tower, your shots will target and destroy the parked truck near the boat (since that is what you are actually tracking with the lock-on reticle). In the screen-shot of the HD version you can clearly see that the shots are not only missing the tower, but also the truck and the tanks located on the deck of the boat.

DrTrouserPlank wrote:
I assume you are talking about the ability to lock onto the two outer turrets that spawn with the 4th boss initially. If that is the case I agree that destroying them is harder than in the DC version. They seem to absorb so much ammo, and (whilst I can't say I've noticed shots missing) I assume this is the reason.


The amount of damage they can sustain (their HP) hasn't changed. What makes them difficult to destroy is that the shot from the copter doesn't aim properly. As a result, several salvos are wasted since they don't connect with the turrets (they just randomly contact non-destructive areas of the boss). Watch closely and you'll see that the center ground tracking shot of the copter does not angle downward in a straight line (like it does with every other target on a lower active plane), instead, it randomly scatters shot left and right.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:07 pm 


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Do you think that the proximity you need to have with an enemy in order to stop him firing requires you to be closer/more above him than in the DC version or do you think it's the same?
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat version comparisons (DC vs HD)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:55 pm 


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DrTrouserPlank wrote:
Do you think that the proximity you need to have with an enemy in order to stop him firing requires you to be closer/more above him than in the DC version or do you think it's the same?


The proximity bubble used to initiate bullet sealing on ground targets is much smaller in the HD version. You have to be very close in order for them to stop firing. This actually becomes an issue during the first horizontal portion of stage 5 (in the rest of the game though, this is negligible).
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