Castlevania Miscellanies

[Austin]

I don't mind the first Lords of Shadow. Although personally, I feel it's too long for its own good and overstays its welcome. Part of this is due to a lot of unnecessary "puzzles" that eat up your time. I end up skipping most of them when possible (the game gives you the choice after a point). Then there's the wall climbing.. Way too much of it, honestly, to the point of being tedius. The combat isn't the best, but it's satisfying enough. Lots of moves you can work up towards via an upgrade system. My biggest issue with the game is, asides from some random name drops here and there and some occasional "spooky" monsters, it doesn't have much in common with Castlevania and it doesn't evoke the feeling long time fans expect from the series.

Lords of Shadow 2 was a push in the right direction at points (the "back in time" parts in the gothic castle, Gabriel's.. erm, Dracula's, attacks being more visceral and satisfying, and the bosses). These things made it feel more like a Castlevania game than the first LOS. Also, it has more of a MetroidVania kind of setup, which I think is an improvement of the first game's false sense of openness (replaying stages with late game abilities to find missed items). However, for every one thing that was good about it, it matched it with something supremely idiotic (i.e., playing in a modern setting, the forced stealth sections, etc). It had potential, but ultimately MercurySteam botched it.

[Weak Boson]

Yeah the first LoS wasn't a bad game. It has high production values and the combat system is good. Probably a better developer could have made something really good with it, but as it stands it's fun. You have light and dark magic and gain magic fuel for performing long combos. So on a good day you can really abuse these abilities. This really clicked for me in the werewolf boss fight where you could fight constantly in hyper mode.

I never played the DLC so I'm planning on snapping up a cheap steam copy and giving the whole game another run.

There's good reasons to be be uncomfortable calling it a Castlevania game, though. Not so much because they mess with the holy konami canon - but because of how they saw out a lot of the series' aesthetic and replace it with generic AAA jacked up muscle monsters and quick time colossus bosses. But within it's own world it's not without merit. Nice to have Patrick Stewart along for the ride at least.

I haven't played the sequel. Again, planning on plucking it out of the bargain bin either way, but it's nice to hear it's not without redeeming qualities. That's certainly different to Mirror of Fate. The combat is bad, the game is mostly ugly and they try to reference the previous canon in the most painful way. Deep Lords of Shadow lore:

Spoiler

Dracula is a belmont so he's maybe not a bad guy?? iirc he only became a dracula by accident. Now Trevor = Alucard because why the hell not. Oh and Simon is groundskeeper Willie.

A particularly confusing part in MoF (that basically sums up the whole game) is when Dracula defeats Trevor, only to realize who he really is, saying (direct quote) "boo hoo my son", and saving his life by turning him into Alucard. But this is in a flashback, and earlier in the game you play as Alucard and Simon teaming up to fight Dracula, and he just doesn't give a fuck, trying to kill them both even possessing Simon so that Alucard has to fight him. Ya don't care about your grandkids gaby???

The first game's narrative wasn't this loose and lazy. But why go to the trouble of setting up an origin story for your universe if all you do with it is this nonsense?

[Jonny2x4]

I've been revisiting Vampire Killer (the MSX2 version) lately and for some reason, I've noticed this game gets labeled as the first "Metroidvania" by certain journos (who probably never bothered to play it beyond the first few screens), but it really isn't. While the level designs are not as linear as the NES Castlevania and they require a bit of exploration, it's not really an open world, since the game is still divided into stages and you can't backtrack into the previously-cleared stage once you enter a new area. The game's structure is really much closer to the first Goonies than anything else.

The game feels like it was designed to punish more compulsive players, since a lot of the candles contain booby items such as slime enemies and black bibles (which will raise merchant's prices, but the game doesn't tell you that) and there's really no point at accumulating too many items, since you lose everything except your hearts when you clear a boss battle. I still can't get over the way sub-weapon works. Who in the hell thought that jump+left or right was an intuitive input method for throwing holy water? Same thing with the stopwatch, which only works by pressing down while jumping. Considering the game uses the F2 key to display the map, why didn't they copy the NES version Up+B method and have you switching between either?

The last time I played this game, I never made it pass Stage 9 (or Block 3-3), so I'm hoping I'll get a lot further this time.

[Sumez]

I've never heard anyone call the MSX game a "metroidvania", but I'd say the slight elements of exploration involved with finding the keys you need, etc. definitely serves as a precursor to Castlevania 2, being the first game to set the series into that path, before SOTN finally picked it up.

I imagine the route they took with CV2 made more sense at the time due to this game existing. But it's really up in the air.

[SuperDeadite]

I've been revisiting Vampire Killer (the MSX2 version) lately and for some reason, I've noticed this game gets labeled as the first "Metroidvania" by certain journos (who probably never bothered to play it beyond the first few screens), but it really isn't. While the level designs are not as linear as the NES Castlevania and they require a bit of exploration, it's not really an open world, since the game is still divided into stages and you can't backtrack into the previously-cleared stage once you enter a new area. The game's structure is really much closer to the first Goonies than anything else.

The game feels like it was designed to punish more compulsive players, since a lot of the candles contain booby items such as slime enemies and black bibles (which will raise merchant's prices, but the game doesn't tell you that) and there's really no point at accumulating too many items, since you lose everything except your hearts when you clear a boss battle. I still can't get over the way sub-weapon works. Who in the hell thought that jump+left or right was an intuitive input method for throwing holy water? Same thing with the stopwatch, which only works by pressing down while jumping. Considering the game uses the F2 key to display the map, why didn't they copy the NES version Up+B method and have you switching between either?

The manual tells you exactly what every item does, you have to read it lol. Control wise the MSX game was in development before the NES game. Most MSXs have the keyboard built into the computer, so back then, using the keyboard for extra buttons wasn't an issue. Everyone had 14'' monitors and sat about 6 inches from the screen. Game wise, it's old but it's quite beatable. You just have to learn what items you need per stage, where they are, and the best route through each level.

[Jonny2x4]

I've never heard anyone call the MSX game a "metroidvania", but I'd say the slight elements of exploration involved with finding the keys you need, etc. definitely serves as a precursor to Castlevania 2, being the first game to set the series into that path, before SOTN finally picked it up.

I imagine the route they took with CV2 made more sense at the time due to this game existing. But it's really up in the air.

Simon's Quest definitely took some ideas from Vampire Killer such as the merchants and the use of hearts for currency, as well as the ability to equip a shield. I think Vampire Killer also had some unused items from the first NES game.

The manual tells you exactly what every item does, you have to read it lol.

Yeah, I learned that myself when I browsed the Arcade Gear website several years ago. I still can't get over Jump->Left/Right for the holy water throw though. Or other rules such as the fact that you can lose the Battle Axe and Battle Cross when you fail to catch them on their return path.

Incidentally, the Japanese manual is much more detailed than its European counterpart, which seems to be the case with pretty much every MSX game by Konami.
https://archive.org/details/MSX2DRACULAUM

Control wise the MSX game was in development before the NES game. Most MSXs have the keyboard built into the computer, so back then, using the keyboard for extra buttons wasn't an issue. Everyone had 14'' monitors and sat about 6 inches from the screen.

I always wanted to own an actual MSX2 computer for the Konami games, but they tend to go for such ridiculous prices these days, especially the Hideo Kojima stuff (and the MSX2 Snatcher has worse loading times than the PC-8801 original and lack the developer profiles on GAUDI). Hopefully one day...

Game wise, it's old but it's quite beatable. You just have to learn what items you need per stage, where they are, and the best route through each level.

I did get the hang of it eventually, but some reason I had difficulty getting pass Stage 9 and lost interest for some reason. But now I realized the trick is not to waste time collecting items you might lose anyway and just head straight to the goal somehow.

EDIT:Just made it to Stage 10, but died on the second screen after mistiming a jump. Looks like the trick to taking out the twin mummies is to purchase the holy cross from the merchant in the next-to-last room before the boss room and spam it against them.

[Sumez]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbb8zPQBmOw

[Weak Boson]

^I watched the first season for the first time recently (a dormant part of my brain just suddenly remembered its announcement) and I enjoyed it a lot. I'm not well versed in anime so I don't know how much inspiration it drew from other shows, but it seemed like there was some vision behind it. Initiating hype protocols.

[BrianC]

Simon's Quest definitely took some ideas from Vampire Killer such as the merchants and the use of hearts for currency, as well as the ability to equip a shield. I think Vampire Killer also had some unused items from the first NES game.

According to tcrf, the NES version of Castlevania has some unused items from the MSX game.

[Austin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbb8zPQBmOw

Hell yes, thanks for linking. I was wondering what was happening with this.

October 26th!

[Jonny2x4]

According to tcrf, the NES version of Castlevania has some unused items from the MSX game.

That's what I was thinking about. Incidentally, there's some things I need to verify in Simon's Quest. Supposedly the zombies in the village were originally meant to jump like Jiangshi, but they changed in the final version. I was wondering if there's some unused code in the game that restores their original behavior.

[Strider77]

CV4 is a game I'd never attempt a 1LC on. That stupid bridge before The Monster would just ruin my mood.

The OST didn't help your mood and see you through it?

[Blinge]

Fuck that bridge

[Strider77]

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/rTzIthrZ2SQ

[Obscura]

The bridge is a test of nerves more than anything. In that linked vid, every one of his deaths is because he panicked and flinched, where, had he just stayed calm, he'd have survived just fine.

[Blinge]

1LC attempt. Nerves. The time it would take to get back.
I think I'm going to hurl.

[Obscura]

Well yeah, I wouldn't attempt a 1LC on CV4 because it's way too long, but that bridge has nothing to do with it (there's several scenes that would scare me a lot more). It's just way too long.

[Strider77]

The bridge is a test of nerves more than anything. In that linked vid, every one of his deaths is because he panicked and flinched, where, had he just stayed calm, he'd have survived just fine.

The bridge doesn't bother me that much myself.

[Stevens]

I have access to Dracula X on the SNES. General opinions?

[Obscura]

Very good game, criminally underrated. Better than Rondo.

[Squire Grooktook]

Lead Shoes no Densetsu

Not as good as Rondo.

[BIL]

I have access to Dracula X on the SNES. General opinions?

It's good but fundamentally flawed in some annoying ways. Walk speed is overly slow, making want to go full Berumondo and throwing-knife whoever started the "trad CV = slow movement" meme afflicting this and GB CV2. Play CV1 and note the Contra-quick scroll speed, you utterly cretinous NPCs (non-playing cunts). Methodical =/= slow.

This also makes hit escapes trickier than they should be, since LICHTAH won't get clear as quickly as you may hope. Should've just ported Rondo's similar but soundly nicer engine over 1:1.

The game's attempt at "nonlinearity" is a wash too. You can't criss-cross your favourite stages and bosses like Rondo, instead you're walled into one or the other. Stage 5 Bad End rocks, but playing it means giving up the excellent st6 Good Boss. I want both.

Having said all this, I do love it as a slightly dinged Rondo Mission Pack of sorts. Shelled out for a NOS SFC copy and would happily do it again. Admittedly I am obsessed but I'm also quite discerning. When it's good it's right up there with the best of the traditional games. Clock Tower / Death is an all-series highlight, wickedly treacherous from start to finish. This and this are two easier passages I never tire of. The axeplay is consistently brilliant, and tbh, the heavy handling isn't always bad. The game is hellaciously punishing in a way that can irritate initially, but it makes clean runs quite the rush. (and you can most definitely clean up, there's no bullshit design slop here)

Marmite game. Needlessly flawed and reliant on balls-hard methodical action to make up the difference. You may well like it a lot, depending on what it is you play oldschool CV for.

[Sumez]

Absolutely better than both CV4 and Bloodlines. Great CV game only held down by the fact that you can't help comparing it to the objetively better Rondo.

I never had problems with the controls.

[Squire Grooktook]

The only game I'd say is technically superior to Bloodlines is The Holy King, x68 Dracula. But even then, Bloodlines holds its own corner due to its completely unique aggressive, boss thrashing playstyle.

XX does not compare to either imo. It's good enough to beat 4 though.

[BIL]

Absolutely better than both CV4

Damn straight. But then every other 16bit CV is. PLS no bully the artsy goth kid of the group. :3

and Bloodlines.

Oh hell naw. :O Not for my artfully stabbing/stomping needs anyway. I rewatched my old VK Expert 1LC and saw I'd played. Like. SHIIIT so I got up to speed and it was nonstop flame-spewing POW mode murder like no trad CV ever. XX deals in stripped-down punishing method action™, and while it has its formidable high points, it's got almost self-parodically sludgy handling unheard of in CV1, CV3 and, yes, Rondo. It's a B+ game in an A series. Nothing wrong with that ofc.

I never had problems with the controls.

The controls are utterly superb! It's the handling that rankles, specifically that boggy walk speed.

[Blinge]

Better than 4? Maybe. I mean, I accept all the arguments in favour.

I wouldn't dream of playing either in one sitting again tho.
One is a complete chore, the other is SCV4..

[Strider77]

Absolutely better than Bloodlines.

[NYN]

I have access to Dracula X on the SNES. General opinions?

It's the ugly cousin.
Spent some time when she's in town, be polite, but more so firm when you tell her that this is getting nowhere.
Imagine your offsprings with 12 toes whenever you think "Well, she's not that ugly..."
If that doesn't help, smack yourself with fine measure.

[Stevens]

Thanks for the responses.

I've been playing it here and there (read when I want to play something but don't know what else to play). I like it well enough, but admittedly I've not spent much time with the series.

Hands out extends like candy, but invincibility after hit is almost non existent. Normal for the series?

[BIL]

It's the ugly cousin.
Spent some time when she's in town, be polite, but more so firm when you tell her that this is getting nowhere.
Imagine your offsprings with 12 toes whenever you think "Well, she's not that ugly..."
If that doesn't help, smack yourself with fine measure.

I suppose XX is kinda the Oh god how did I end up here trad CV. :O

She don't lie/She don't lie/She don't lie!
*SNFFFFFF*

Hands out extends like candy,

There's a fun little minigame with collecting no-damage bonuses for boss battles. Check out my 10/10 pose after nailing the rather tricky Serpent.

I WAS RLY FEELIN IT (・｀W´・)

but invincibility after hit is almost non existent. Normal for the series?

Hmm, very much abnormal. Rope-a-doping is a valid tech in lethal knock-down drag-out oldschool CV. Thing is you'll usually die after a few biffs (corner escape on last hit), so you better make 'em count. Or if not HP exhaustion, you'll probably go right off a ledge (*cue slide whistle* ™ Ed Oscuro).

The problem with XX is, Richter is abnormally slow, so you've got a harder than normal job getting him out of danger. Even humble bats and medusas can juggle the fuck out of novices. Adepts know to exercise steely control when even the most humble varmint clocks XX "straight outta leg day" Richter.

In a way it's almost like a reverse import of Ninja Gaiden's classically noob-infuriating Boxer Trap. You know, noob gets jabbed. Now they're in the kill zone of an erratically lunging enemy whose speed beats theirs. They panic and flail, squandering their i-frames then *WHAM* jabbed again. "BUHHH, BOXERS B CHEEP" Meanwhile adepts know to carefully slip the foe in i-time, escaping or counter-riposting as RNG dictates.

Nowhere as superb an homage as Bloodlines' big runnin/big gunnin "Akumajou Ryukenden," but it's perversely kinda enjoyable IMO.

Spoiler

Spoiler

^ some of my favourite stuff ever