9th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

[BIL]

No, I didn't put it badly. You read it wrongly. A shooter can be fast-paced and easy (Thunder Force III). It can be slow-paced and difficult (R-Type II). Gradius V is too easy and too slow-paced for too much of its hour-plus loop.

And apparently you're inexperienced enough with shooters to think calling Gradius V "too easy" in all-time context warrants a correction. Try out the new fourth button (I wasn't joking, there is one), it makes the game eminently manageable.

[Randorama]

There is something somewhat disturbing about people complaining on OPINION POLLS. If 100 people or so decide that they like Garegga more than other shmups, and VOTE in an OPEN, TRANSPARENT poll to make this "public", then the final result will reflect their opinion. The name of the poll may be misleading - the rules are not.

Next year, if anyone wants their beloved game on top, then they can form a lobby and vote it en masse. Battle Garegga will still be on top. Winners are grinners, losers are chokers

[moozooh]

Next year, if anyone wants their beloved game on top, then they can form a lobby and vote it en masse. Battle Garegga will still be on top. Winners are grinners, losers are chokers :lol:

Hey, it somewhat worked with Ketsui on the 8th poll!

[professor ganson]

I'm really impressed by this list. Although it is biased towards more recent shooters and has a few puzzling entries (Darius Gaiden?), this is a great guide to newbies-- both because the games are so high in quality and because they serve as representatives of very different kinds of shooters.

[SoldierBlade]

This list needs more PC Engine love.

[mjclark]

This list needs more PC Engine love.

I voted Nexzr as my #1 if that's any help

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Next year G-Darius needs to be pulled out of the honorable mentions list as it is the best in the series.

[HalfEmpty]

solid list right here. hell yeah to Raizing #1 and #2.

lately I've been thinkin about how awesome it'd be to grab a candy cab and the Batrider board someday; I'd been planning to just MAME it up once I have my own dwellings but now I'm liking the hardware more and more and may soon be willing to spend really dumb amounts of money on games. -_-. it begins.

[professor ganson]

Next year G-Darius needs to be pulled out of the honorable mentions list as it is the best in the series.

Not going to happen. I'm surprised it made honorable mentions, tbph.

[Zaarock]

Next year G-Darius needs to be pulled out of the honorable mentions list as it is the best in the series.

Yep, and also Rayforce in top 25. It must be done :p

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Not going to happen. I'm surprised it made honorable mentions, tbph.

Cool troll post, but it's been on the honorable mentions list for every year. Darius games aren't bad, your expectations for them are just unreasonable.

[BulletMagnet]

Darius games aren't bad, your expectations for them are just unreasonable.

I'm hesitant to jump too deep into this one, but I am genuinely curious as to exactly what you mean here...

[professor ganson]

Cool troll post, but it's been on the honorable mentions list for every year. Darius games aren't bad, your expectations for them are just unreasonable.

I do think that pretty well every underwater shmup falls short of my expectations/hopes, but I don't think I'm unreasonable in expecting/hoping for more. The second stage of Mushi Futari gave me exactly what I was holding out for!

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Can you really expect Taito to design all 28 stages per usual with each and one of them being standard arcade fare? the only other shmup I can think of with that many stages is Varth, and even that has really inconsistent design quality. Besides, there are much easier games out there that don't get shit for it. That being said, I can understand why Darius is not to everyone's liking as it's not common for any arcade game, let alone one of this genre that allows such open-endedness.

[Randorama]

I do think that pretty well every underwater shmup falls short of my expectations/hopes

This is a wrong expectation. Since its inception, Darius featured multiple settings for the stages. The first Darius had five recurring types of background and matching music, then Darius II revolved around a battle in the Solar System; and so on.

The fact that bosses and several enemies are designed after species of fish does not make these titles "underwater shmups",so there's no point in pretending that they are.

Aside this, I propose a lobby for voting G-Darius and Rayforce back into the top 25, next year. Who's with me?

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

He's not poking fun at the setting, he's complaining about the gameplay being too slow/too easy, which I just (poorly) explained.
I for one, am all for those two finally getting into the top 25. Especially RayForce. I've only just started playing it after owning it for a few months and already I can say it is one of the best vertical experiences I've ever had. (It helps I also just recently TATEd my TV)

[evil_ash_xero]

The reason G-Darius isn't on the list, is because of it's graphics. If they did an HD remake of it, or whatever, I'm sure it would shoot up pretty high. It IS the best one(and one of the best 32 bit horis), but Darius Gaiden looks more....well, it doesn't look like PS1 polygons, which always hurts a game's chances.

And a lot of people have probably only played the slowdown plagued PSX version. However, it looks cleaner, than the PS2 version. Ugh...poor game.

I still can't get over that MMP is considered the 10th best shmup EVER. I know that will change, pretty soon, but it's really weird seeing it that high. Good game and all, but let's be real.

Also, I just don't know the appeal of Raiden Fighters Jet. I only kind of like the second one, but I think the 3rd one is a bit weaker(they're all about the same though). They're so basic. Eh...just my tastes, I guess.

[azinth]

The reason G-Darius isn't on the list, is because of it's graphics.

I was going to make some sarcastic remark to this, but hey, Guwange manages to make it on this list quite often, so...

Also, I just don't know the appeal of Raiden Fighters Jet. I only kind of like the second one, but I think the 3rd one is a bit weaker(they're all about the same though). They're so basic. Eh...just my tastes, I guess.

cuz QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT QUICK SHOT

[Herr Schatten]

The reason G-Darius isn't on the list, is because of it's graphics. If they did an HD remake of it, or whatever, I'm sure it would shoot up pretty high. It IS the best one(and one of the best 32 bit horis), but Darius Gaiden looks more....well, it doesn't look like PS1 polygons, which always hurts a game's chances.

Having horrible first-gen polygon graphics doesn't really seem to hurt R-Type Delta, though.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Yeah, but R-Type Delta removed speed ups and collision damage, it's only natural it'd be the most popular entry amongst the kiddies. G-Darius on the other hand, still has the latter plus the powerup meter which nobody seems to appreciate.
All of this is irrelevent anyway, since the real reason G-Darius isn't on the top 25 is simply due to the fact people refuse to play any Darius besides Gaiden.

[Drum]

Yeah, but R-Type Delta removed speed ups and collision damage, it's only natural it'd be the most popular entry amongst the kiddies. G-Darius on the other hand, still has the latter plus the powerup meter which nobody seems to appreciate.
All of this is irrelevent anyway, since the real reason G-Darius isn't on the top 25 is simply due to the fact people refuse to play any Darius besides Gaiden.

It's a Darius game. No Darius game should be on the list, ever.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I even refuse to play Gaiden. I just don't like them.

But MMP will likely stay on my list. Pink Sweets might drop off it entirely(depending whether I factor in Arrange or not), and now that I've played Eschatos and Judgement Silversword, those will definitely be on my next list.

I'd probably drop Dimahoo, though it's not bad, for a no Raizing list(unless I actually try a few others and somehow like one).

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

It's a Darius game. No Darius game should be on the list, ever.

I would suggest trying Darius Force since it's harder than Gaiden (which you said before you liked) but I'm sure it would then just be passed off as a memorizer thanks to the incredibly stingy shot limitation and hilariously bad checkpoint recovery. I certainly have no qualms putting it on my top 25 in place of Gaiden. It was quite ahead of it's time considering it had alternate attacks for palette swap bosses, mid-stage branching paths on Zones E & M, alternate Silver Hawks for play, scoring bonuses for playing a specific route...

[mesh control]

I'm down for for adding G.Darius into the top 25.

I for one <3 ugly polygons.

[BIL]

Yeah, but R-Type Delta removed speed ups and collision damage, it's only natural it'd be the most popular entry amongst the kiddies.

I can't speak for the kiddies, but I prefer Delta to the others since it's more interesting to play for score (see also Sexy Parodius). Lack of speed control would cripple the freedom to devise scoring strategies, and the lack of wall damage is pretty irrelevant if you're capable of scoring aggressively in the first place. I could deal with walldeath (or Border Down/Einhander-style wallenergybar) just fine, but Delta's a challenging game without it.

Rayforce has already been in the top 25 several times, btw. I voted for it as usual and was a bit bummed to see it out, but I was happier to see Dragon Blaze finally make it in.

[Vamos]

Also, I just don't know the appeal of Raiden Fighters Jet. I only kind of like the second one, but I think the 3rd one is a bit weaker(they're all about the same though). They're so basic. Eh...just my tastes, I guess.

fighters jet basic? good luck with those multiplyer target chains .

[Drum]

It's a Darius game. No Darius game should be on the list, ever.

I would suggest trying Darius Force since it's harder than Gaiden (which you said before you liked) but I'm sure it would then just be passed off as a memorizer thanks to the incredibly stingy shot limitation and hilariously bad checkpoint recovery. I certainly have no qualms putting it on my top 25 in place of Gaiden. It was quite ahead of it's time considering it had alternate attacks for palette swap bosses, mid-stage branching paths on Zones E & M, alternate Silver Hawks for play, scoring bonuses for playing a specific route...

I like Gaiden presentation-wise, mostly. There are a bunch of games I like that a lot of people might dismiss as memorisers, but they don't really fit my idea of what a memoriser is (basically, a punishing game that doesn't allow much flexibility). Like, I know some people call the Gradius games memorisers, and probably some people would call X-Multiply or Dragon Breed memorisers too - but they all have enough defensive options/room to maneuver that I only sometimes feel like I got played (if you get me). I can also put up with a fair amout of memorise-or-die situations if there's something else interesting going on. I'll give Force a try but from your description I'm not real optimistic.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Darius has always sold itself on presentation. I don't consider this a bad thing, but I fail to see why Gaiden would be any more notable than the previous ones in that regard, pretty as the pseudo 3D backgrounds may be. As for the ever-lasting memorizer debate: I still have no idea what really defines one myself, but from what I gather, it implies the game is poorly designed (which Force is, but still manages to remain enjoyable) and I'd certainly never consider Konami's or Irem's main shooters to be one. But then again, I'd rather make the effort in 1LCing a game than learning basic recovery patterns...

[Drum]

Darius has always sold itself on presentation. I don't consider this a bad thing, but I fail to see why Gaiden would be any more notable than the previous ones in that regard, pretty as the pseudo 3D backgrounds may be.

It's just the culmination of everything that came before. The bosses in the earlier games, for example, just look really stiff by comparison and to me that's pretty much all the series has going for it. Also the music in Gaiden works really well with the visuals (though I wouldn't listen to it on the bus).
I like a bunch of games mostly for their presentation (Gynoug, Bio-Hazard Battle and Lords of Thunder all made my list and while I think they all play pretty well, and better than Darius Gaiden, there are of course a lot of better-playing games that didn't make it).

[louisg]

Darius has always sold itself on presentation. I don't consider this a bad thing, but I fail to see why Gaiden would be any more notable than the previous ones in that regard, pretty as the pseudo 3D backgrounds may be.

Aside from the presentation, I'd argue that the level layouts are peppier than Darius 2 and the shot patterns are more varied. The bosses are just brilliant in that game. It's offset a little by how horrible the balance is, but I think it's way above the previous entries in the series in terms of gameplay, not just in graphics.

As Drum mentioned, it also has a fluid feel. The stiffness was pretty present in the older games, kind of like the feeling that hurts a lot of Capcom shmups,