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 Post subject: GD: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:51 am 


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Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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Location: Nagoya
So does anyone know how the multiplier works?
Do different shots give different amounts of points?
Are extends only in predefined places or does something else trigger them?


<changed RQ to GD -inc.>
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:39 pm 


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cyprien wrote:
So does anyone know how the multiplier works?

If you're talking "Normal" mode, the multiplier goes up as you destroy enemy formations without letting any slip offscreen (same idea as Zanac Neo). "Advanced" operates on a similar principle, though there's another factor or two at work there...someone else'll have to specify exactly what.

Quote:
Do different shots give different amounts of points?

To the best of my knowledge, no.

Quote:
Are extends only in predefined places or does something else trigger them?

Again, as far as I know, they always appear in designated spots.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:31 am 


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Thanks! The multiplier kept resetting after each wave so I thought I was doing something wrong.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:32 pm 


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Posts: 1968
Playing this game, I feel like I don't understand how advanced mode works at all. The systems seem to be in such contention with each other that I have no idea how to go about things.

For example: Do I ever want to pick up the Yellow F icons? The blue seems to have no value, but the yellow ones turn onscreen bullets into point items. In doing so, though, they reduce the multiplier and your power level.

The power level itself is another problem-- do I want to stay at max power? The scoring items are the biggest here, but I have less time to generate them. They seem to circle longer if you use them to kill enemies, but not so much longer to make it particularly viable.

All these conflicting issues cause me to yearn for a proper scoring guide, but it seems like the game's not popular enough to ever get one. I would look for high-score replays on XBL, but I don't want to download that new dashboard update, since it's apparently ad city, or something.

Can somebody maybe check out a high-scoring replay and tell me what exactly I should be focusing on? Because right now my only certainty is that I need to kill everything before it moves offscreen.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:58 pm 


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I did watch the top replays a couple months ago and the basic idea is you only need to care about full screen cancels, stay at full power otherwise, and don't drop enemies obviously. Milking by grazing is barely worth anything at all and there are very few occasions where it's safe to do so, but timing a boss properly or using the very occasional yellow bomb, like on area 12 or 13 with all the lasers in the background (it's the main spot I remember using but I'm sure there are more).

Basically don't worry about it too much, chaining is still the key to this game, and just stay on the lookout for very good cancelling spots.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:45 pm 


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By "full screen cancels," you mean enemy kills that cancel all their bullets, right? And just avoid the yellow Ps unless I actually need them?

I was hoping the game would be more involved, rather than less. It's still an amazing game, there's just a few things I would tweak about the scoring.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:02 pm 


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Enemy kills that clear the bullets yes (like on bosses) and the yellow bomb items, though you should feel free to use bombs anyway since the loss of power doesn't hit your score that much. It's probably a good thing that grazing isn't worth it most of the time though, or things like milking bosses to death and such would take over the rest of the game.

It can also make sense to lower your power level when you really need the added shield for survival, and having -1 to your multiplier isn't that bad of a tradeoff for 50% shield energy.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:24 am 



Joined: 06 Jan 2011
Posts: 1302
I didn't even know grazing did anything. How many points is it worth? And what's the grazebox compared to the hitbox?


And I never really understood the preference for Original from a lot of players. Advanced is everything Original is, better scoring with the bullet cancels and shield thing, risk/reward with powerup reducing the shield, higher difficulty due to the shield thing, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:59 pm 



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Advanced is messy and pointlessly cluttered. Original is simple, elegant and fun. Seems pretty clear choice to me.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:43 pm 


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I don't think it's cluttered at all. I'm not sure yet if the scoring system totally "works," but so far it seems like a blast, and the better of the two modes. The purple point items are so simple but so enjoyable. I love that they can be used as an offensive weapon, I just wish there was some way to really prolong that effect. I guess you could stay at low power, but I'm assuming that gets you less points overall? It seems so wacky to me. I have no idea how anything fits together, but it's really fun.

I'm hoping that at some point a master gamer comes along and does a write-up with detailed scoring information. Then I'll know for sure how well the system works and adjust accordingly.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:28 pm 


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Is it me or are there some areas where you don't have to kill every single enemy to keep your multiplier? I was playing last night and in the areas before the final boss with the lasers and the tiny enemies that harass you in the background, I was only focusing on killing the enemies that look like game controllers and I never lost my mulitplier.

Or am I just going crazy? If I could ignore some of the smaller "background" enemies, that'd make scoring a lot less frantic.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:43 pm 


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Well in those areas in particular, the lasers are doing the work for you.

However, in area 7 I think before the boss, those circle things shoot missiles. You DON'T have to kill them to keep your multiplier.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:22 pm 


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What about places like Area 19 (with the Space Invaders kind of layout and the little purple things that come down)? I'm going to try and figure out all the places where you don't have to actually kill every single thing on the screen. I get killed often trying to zoom around picking off enemies I miss, and it's getting quite irritating.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:00 am 


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The purple thingies you can let go too. I think I may write up a whole guide once I clear Hard.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:00 am 



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That would definitely be nice to know about what stuff I wouldn't need to worry as much about, especially on Advanced where a death costs you your entire chain.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:06 am 


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I put together a list of all the hidden witches (from watching the top replays). I know these are accurate for Easy and Normal, but can't vouch for Hard/Hardest because I'm too lazy (people who have more time to waste/care more can confirm). Hopefully my descriptions aren't too shitty.

Area 4 - after 2nd cannon-thingy on the right, move behind the drones (top-left)
Area 9 - top of the pyramid
Area 13 - Beginning, top right, just as neon pinecone things are falling
Area 16/17 - Top Left, just before end of 16/beginning of 17 (right as boss music starts)
Area 20 - Beginning of area, far left
Area 22 - Two Hands - Kill Right Hand first, witch on far right
Area 25 - During big balls toward the end, right under the difficulty at top of the screen (like where it says "Original Easy" at the top, the witch is under the word "Easy")

Hope this helps anyone looking to pick up some extra points.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:54 am 


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Oh yeah, I promised to make a guide once I cleared hard. I think I'll write it up tomorrow after work.

You forgot a wonderwitch at the beginning of stage 4. It's near the end of the first area in the top corners.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:22 pm 


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Yeah, and I noticed that the location seems to change in Advanced, AND it seems to change with time. Blah. At least I got a rough idea where most of them are. It's nice to have that written out.

I'm looking forward to your guide. I could 1cc Normal in another day or two easily enough, but scoring in it (or Hard/Hardest) is a completely different ballgame. Advanced scoring is just... obnoxious. OH BOY BULLET MILKING WHAT FUN.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:00 pm 


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CaptainRansom wrote:
Advanced scoring is just... obnoxious. OH BOY BULLET MILKING WHAT FUN.


That's good, because Advanced isn't primarily about bullet milking! The benefits for "grazing" are negligible, and most points come from good old fashioned chaining, with the occasional full screen bullet cancel for points. If you want to milk, go ahead, but the benefits are very small and you still need to kill everything in sight, so the spots are few and far between.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Eschatos - Scoring and Extends
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:46 pm 


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Meh, that was what I got from watching replays. Get one enemy on screen -> Shield bullets -> If boss, wait until just the right moment to kill while shielding bullets as much as possible. I guess I'm just not fully understanding it, which doesn't surprise me at all.
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