Greatest screen filter ever

[fagin]

I'm not sure why these screenshots are making such a big deal about curvature. I don't see anything like that on my arcade cabs.

Half the problem here is what people "suspect" something should look like on a SD CRT, against what it "actually" looks like on a SD CRT.

Also the last pic.... if my arcade cab screen looked like that in general, I would throw it in the bin!

Regardless of all this it will certainly be interesting to see how this all works out and hats off to the developers for "developing" something that in reality isn't a mainstream "issue". I will complete some back to back video tests against a LCD and Arcade CRT...... will be interesting to see the differences.

Do we know when this release of MAME will hit the streets?

[Sumez]

Also the last pic.... if my arcade cab screen looked like that in general, I would throw it in the bin!

I feel the same way about most of these shots. They especially seem to favor a lot of odd anti-aliasing and blurring that I've NEVER seen on a proper RGB monitor!

[fagin]

Also the last pic.... if my arcade cab screen looked like that in general, I would throw it in the bin!

I feel the same way about most of these shots. They especially seem to favor a lot of odd anti-aliasing and blurring that I've NEVER seen on a proper RGB monitor!

In all honesty I believe the examples are showing what the filters "can do" which is fine, but as some of us who have cabs realise, are quite a way off from what it actually looks like on a decent CRT. I suspect the onus is on us guys to create filter settings that replicate as close as possible to the real thing..... at least we have a community that has that facility at its disposal.

[Sumez]

I do trust this filter will be able to deliver something that looks like a real CRT providing it is set up properly,

However, I don't see any reason why I'd want to do this (but I do see why it's interesting, as a developer, to try to replicate the effect).
I can understand scanlines, since the graphics of these games are designed to be shown with scanlines (there's a png filter for mame called rgb triad or something that helps replicate this effect really well), but apart from that I don't understand the need to simulate the faults seen in CRT monitors! Anything from curvature, convergence, rgb shifting or glass reflections to a slight blur is not something you WANT on a CRT monitor, it's just something that's difficult to avoid with the technology used by them.

Personally I'm not a fan of emulation, but if I am ever to play emulated games, I'd prefer to see them in their full pixelated glory.

[gray117]

I do trust this filter will be able to deliver something that looks like a real CRT providing it is set up properly,

However, I don't see any reason why I'd want to do this (but I do see why it's interesting, as a developer, to try to replicate the effect).
I can understand scanlines, since the graphics of these games are designed to be shown with scanlines (there's a png filter for mame called rgb triad or something that helps replicate this effect really well), but apart from that I don't understand the need to simulate the faults seen in CRT monitors! Anything from curvature, convergence, rgb shifting or glass reflections to a slight blur is not something you WANT on a CRT monitor, it's just something that's difficult to avoid with the technology used by them.

Personally I'm not a fan of emulation, but if I am ever to play emulated games, I'd prefer to see them in their full pixelated glory.

Aside from performance, this is why I'm interested in the extent/degrees of 'tweakablity' in the settings - often cheap shader functions tend to be rather on/off; most of the time this is due to performance - keeping the shader and related assets as small as possible. Given that your current graphics card generally has [relatively] little to do when running most of these kind of games it will be interesting to see what can be achieved.

Similarly, I hope/expect that some of these test shots are 'over-egged' i.e. just making sure you can see the technique being implemented.

As to it's use - eye of the beholder - faults, can become features to those seeking nostalgic fixes. More subtle iterations may give people like you a more accurate interpretation of the art work. Clearly some people have no use for this interpretation it at all... But that's the beauty of options

[neorichieb1971]

Can we have the Nanao NAC filter effect then?

Thats the best RGB CRT I have seen at 15khz. The filters in the screenshots make the game look like composite or svideo on a cheapish Philips 21" CRT TV. Certainly a long way off RGB or the nirvana we are looking for. The SLG3000 is more RGB looking on its own, however it doesn't get you all the way there. We need to marry the 2 technologies together.

[ZOM]

The filters in the screenshots make the game look like RF or composite on a cheap and broken 1972 CRT TV.

Fixed.

[neorichieb1971]

so when you turn off the game does it have the effect of the screen shrinking to a white dot in the middle, which remain for 5 seconds and then disappears?

[Ex-Cyber]

so when you turn off the game does it have the effect of the screen shrinking to a white dot in the middle, which remain for 5 seconds and then disappears?

Also, is it patched into the sound code to generate a constant ~15.75 KHz whine?

I can understand scanlines, since the graphics of these games are designed to be shown with scanlines (there's a png filter for mame called rgb triad or something that helps replicate this effect really well), but apart from that I don't understand the need to simulate the faults seen in CRT monitors! Anything from curvature, convergence, rgb shifting or glass reflections to a slight blur is not something you WANT on a CRT monitor, it's just something that's difficult to avoid with the technology used by them.

I see where you're coming from, but I also think this opens up the interesting possibility of creating profiles that try to match particular monitors associated with certain systems. For example, matching a Commodore 1084 for Amiga emulation, matching the internal monitor of a Mac Classic, and so on.

I do want to try this, but for me it will just be a curiosity unless/until it's ported to the OpenGL subsystem.

[StarCreator]

[10:42] <stc-work> can you tell this isn't a tv?
[10:52] <@Turvy> yes
[10:53] <@Turvy> (no glass reflection)

[Udderdude]

I see where you're coming from, but I also think this opens up the interesting possibility of creating profiles that try to match particular monitors associated with certain systems. For example, matching a Commodore 1084 for Amiga emulation, matching the internal monitor of a Mac Classic, and so on.

This is definitely one of the coolest things you could do with this.

[yoZe]

Hi guys,

sorry for my english, i'm french. I think you are going in the wrong way. If you speak french, read this topics it's very interesting :

http://www.neo-arcadia.com/forum/viewto ... 12&t=17386http://forum.shmup.com/viewtopic.php?t=9049

[spadgy]

Sorry about the trouble.

No worries at all! Like you say - it's a hard one to place. I briefly considered Off Topic, and pondered the existence of a Software section. It's a tricky one.

[Sumez]

What's up with all the French people posting French stuff on this forum all the time?

[BPzeBanshee]

What's up with all the French people posting French stuff on this forum all the time?

I believe one of the other forums besides this one that's really popular with a reputation is actually France-based.

[KNTain]

Just a heads up, this is now out and ready to try if you grab the latest MAMEUI.

It's pretty great. I'm still toying with the settings, but I might have found something that I like.

Also, probably worth noting that the filter will crash MAME in games that change their resolution. Like, PSX and Saturn hardware stuff.

[alastair jack]

Where do I go to see the filter, I can't find it in mameUI?

ok, I found something in the mame.ini

[fagin]

This is fairly bad for us who are actually in the 21st century and have Windows 7. Not sure I can be arsed to keep going backwards and forwards between my current DX11 and the DX9 needed for this feature.

BTW... if you need to know how to use this look at the HLSL.txt file in the DOCS folder.

[alastair jack]

Why would you need to use DirectX 11 with mame?

[shmuppyLove]

This is fairly bad for us who are actually in the 21st century and have Windows 7. Not sure I can be arsed to keep going backwards and forwards between my current DX11 and the DX9 needed for this feature.

Um, you don't have to make any changes to your system. If your OS, video card and drivers support DX11, they will also natively support DX9.

Most Windows titles these days are still DX9 actually. There really aren't that many using DX10, and even fewer for DX11.

[fagin]

Why would you need to use DirectX 11 with mame?

I didn't say you need DX11.... this is my "proper" PC I was going to have a play with this which has WIN7 on it.

[fagin]

This is fairly bad for us who are actually in the 21st century and have Windows 7. Not sure I can be arsed to keep going backwards and forwards between my current DX11 and the DX9 needed for this feature.

Um, you don't have to make any changes to your system. If your OS, video card and drivers support DX11, they will also natively support DX9.

Most Windows titles these days are still DX9 actually. There really aren't that many using DX10, and even fewer for DX11.

No they won't 100%. The elements required for this filtering to work rely on DX9 functionality that is not backward compatible under the current DX10/11 releases. This constraint is documented.

Believe me... I have tried it (as I didn't think it was logical either) and the filtering cannot be enabled under WIN7.

Try it on a WIN7 platform if you like and see how you get on.

I quote from MAMEWORLD:

"If you are on Windows 7, running DirectX 10.0 or above, you may not have DirectX 9.0c installed on your system. DirectX 10 and above are known not to be backwards compatible in this instance."

[Fudoh]

I'm very much looking forward to some PROPER screenshots. With good settings and without emulated fucked up convergence etc pp...

[alastair jack]

Just download DirectX9, not that hard to do. I can't believe Windows don't include it in their updates.

[fagin]

Just download DirectX9, not that hard to do. I can't believe Windows don't include it in their updates.

You're absolutely right..... it's not hard to download DX9 but when your system says it already has the latest version installed, you're up **** street.

It appeared to be more fundimental than that.... for whatever reason the standard HLSL config did nothing for me. Once I overwrote the default settings it worked.... weird.

[emphatic]

It appeared to be more fundimental than that.... for whatever reason the standard HLSL config did nothing for me. Once I overwrote the default settings it worked.... weird.

Are you running this successfully in Windows7? Care to share your filter settings so I can get started?

[fagin]

Yes mate... Running on WIN7 64bit. Will get a working ini file up shortly.

[fagin]

First download the latest HLSL files and overwrite your existing ones (from your MAMEUI etc download).

Download is here -> http://www.users.qwest.net/~amerrill/hlsl.zip

Then edit your MAME.INI with something like this (Someone else posted "Here's an ideal Arcade monitor setting you can use"):

hlsl_enable 1
hlslpath hlsl
shadow_mask_alpha 0.1
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 512
shadow_mask_y_count 384
shadow_mask_usize 0.1875
shadow_mask_vsize 0.1875
oversample_x 1.0
oversample_y 1.0
curvature 0.05
screen_scale_top 1.0
screen_scale_bottom 1.0
pincushion 0.05
scanline_alpha 0.5
scanline_size 1.0
scanline_bright_scale 1.0
scanline_bright_offset 0.7
scanline_jitter 0.0
defocus_x 1.0
defocus_y 1.0
red_converge_x 0.0
red_converge_y 0.0
green_converge_x 0.0
green_converge_y 0.0
blue_converge_x 0.0
blue_converge_y 0.0
red_radial_converge_x 0.0
red_radial_converge_y 0.0
green_radial_converge_x 0.0
green_radial_converge_y 0.0
blue_radial_converge_x 0.0
blue_radial_converge_y 0.0
red_from_r 1.0
red_from_g 0.0
red_from_b 0.0
green_from_r 0.0
green_from_g 1.0
green_from_b 0.0
blue_from_r 0.0
blue_from_g 0.0
blue_from_b 1.0
saturation 1.0
red_offset 0.0
green_offset 0.0
blue_offset 0.0
red_scale 1.1
green_scale 1.1
blue_scale 1.1
red_power 2.2
green_power 2.2
blue_power 2.2
red_floor 0.05
green_floor 0.05
blue_floor 0.05
red_phosphor_life 0.45
green_phosphor_life 0.45
blue_phosphor_life 0.45
yiq_enable 0
yiq_w 4.1187867
yiq_a 0.5
yiq_b 0.5
yiq_fsc 1.5
yiq_fsc_scale 2.0
yiq_phase_count 2

It makes me lol, cause if any of my monitors looked like this I would smash em up!!!! It looks terrible imo.

Anyway have a play mate and let us know how you get on.... personally I would rather fire up one of my cabs! roflol

[emphatic]

Thanks. It doesn't work for me still (I have installed DirectX 9C on my Windows7 32 bit). MAME UI even wipes all the stuff I put in the .ini each time I start it. If i make the .ini write-protected, the settings are ignored.

[fagin]

Been messing around with it......