Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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Ganelon
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by Ganelon »

cj iwakura wrote:Funny you should mention, I bought Wizardry VI and VII on the Saturn for a taste of Western Wizardry, and lo and behold...

JP only. :(
Same with Wizardry VII on the PS, except that version has some minor graphical differences—a la Might and Magic III on Mega CD—that may make it worthwhile.

That said, anyone playing older Wiz games for story are probably looking in the wrong place. I think the manuals had more story than the games themselves, although that wasn't uncommon for CRPGs in those days.

If you want anything above bare bones story, try Wiz VI first and work your way up from there if it doesn't suit you. Wiz II and III were originally expansion packs for Wiz I so they're naturally going to look and play mostly the same.

Although some first-person dungeon crawlers do have a story—I agree that the M&M games excel—that's not meant to be the focus. The appeal here is simply the "adventuring spirit." If exploring a labyrinth in a fantasy world, facing unknown enemies, dealing with edge-of-your-seat danger (hence the notched up difficulty over other RPGs such as Ultima), and finding treasure a la classic D&D doesn't appeal to you, then dungeon crawlers simply may not be meant for you. It took me years before I could understand that wanting to explore and go ever further is a prerequisite in this genre.
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Danny
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by Danny »

Hi guys on gamersgate there is an indie bundle that has a game like Wizardry in it called The Devil Whiskey which was originally released in 2004 as a full retail product but has now been acquired by a guy called Decklin. The bundle also comes with a decent rougelike called Cardinal Quest as well. 6 games for £3.99.

http://www.gamersgate.co.uk/indiefort-bundle-1

Also if you like wizardry you should also check out Demise which Decklin has also made an add-on pack for which has pretty much doubled the size of the game. This game is also really fun to play online and the game is hard as balls as well! :D

http://www.decklinsdemise.com/news.php
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Jonathan Ingram
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by Jonathan Ingram »

cj iwakura wrote:Funny you should mention, I bought Wizardry VI and VII on the Saturn for a taste of Western Wizardry, and lo and behold...

JP only. :(
There`s a Saturn version of Wizardry: Llylgamyn Saga that`s identical(at least from what I`ve read) to the one for the PSX. New Age of Llylgamyn is only for PSX and PC though. Wizardry VI and VII for the Saturn are rather radical remakes. They were changed to the point where they feel nothing like the original games(kinda like Ultima Underworld for the PSX, only worse). I really wouldn`t recommend them even if they had English language option.

Anyhow, speaking of JP Wizardry games that have an English option, they are not limited to just the two PSX/PC compilations. There was a PS2 Wizardry title from Taito called Wizardry Gaiden: Prisoners of Battles(not to be confused with Wizardry Gaiden games for GB and SNES) which also allowed to toggle English text. After the PSX games I made it a point to tinker with the options of console Wizardry games in hope of finding the ones that would let me play the games in English. Wizardry Empire`s option screen almost looked like it had an English option somewhere in there, but nope. However, eventually I did come across such a game and it was 2005`s Wizardry Gaiden for the PS2. Not only does it let you toggle English text, but it also allows the use of vector graphics(for better immersion :) ).

Here, I made a few screenshots with PCSX2:

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The menus, equipment, stats and spells are all in English. The story-related text and some of the in-game messages remain in Japanese. Gameplay-wise it`s a really simple title that stays close to the gameplay formula of the first Wizardry games which is typical of the majority of Japanese made Wizardry-s as they rarely incorporate any of the innovations of the later games in the series. I still find it to be more playable than Wizardry I-III though.
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Ganelon
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by Ganelon »

Note that the PC and high priced iOS versions of Prisoners of the Battles also include those English options. Those 2 version may be better draws if you want to play its expansion pack, the Absence of Misericordia, with the same "mostly English" options. Five Ordeals, the PC-only "sequel" (standalone game with 5 pre-built scenarios as well as a scenario editor, all using the exact same mechanics as POB), also has the same English options although the editor is JP-only.

On the PS2, Summoner, Busin 0, and the XTH duo unfortunately don't have English options. Summoner was especially a setback since the GBA version was actually set to be released in the US by Natsume as Wizardry: The Summoning. However, the localization ended up getting canned and surprisingly hasn't been leaked in some form yet. Speaking of handhelds, Asterisk on DS has English options for monster & item names. And as a side note for those who aren't aware, Asterisk is *not* a remake of Wiz I, despite many claims online of it being one.

As for other console versions not mentioned, only Dimguil has options for monsters, items, spells, and status. That won't be enough for someone to understand the story since all the other text is in Japanese and there are events that require some comprehension (or trial and error) but it's a nice gesture. For those keeping tabs, nearly all the versions with English options were developed by ASCII and its affiliates. But really, if you know classic Wizardry mechanics, then you should be able to get by with little understanding of Japanese.
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cj iwakura
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by cj iwakura »

I really would love to see Tale of the Forsaken Land's sequel fan translated one day, even if I have to do it myself.

The original is a damn good game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgaz-uTmTD0

Love the music, design, story, everything.
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Jonathan Ingram
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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Ganelon wrote:Note that the PC and high priced iOS versions of Prisoners of the Battles also include those English options.
I don`t have iOS and I`d assume the PC version would be difficult to track down considering I had never even seen it mentioned anywhere before your post. But thanks for the info. I always thought it was a PS2 only release.
On the PS2, Summoner, Busin 0, and the XTH duo unfortunately don't have English options. Summoner was especially a setback since the GBA version was actually set to be released in the US by Natsume as Wizardry: The Summoning. However, the localization ended up getting canned and surprisingly hasn't been leaked in some form yet.
I found Busin 0 Neo very easy to get into despite the lack of an English option. It`s very similar to the first game; almost feels like a huge expansion pack sometimes. But the Wizardry Xth games, yeah, they are a bitch to play. I have three Generation Xth games for PC. They are from the same people who made Wizardry Xth, right? Team Muramasa, I think.
As for other console versions not mentioned, only Dimguil has options for monsters, items, spells, and status. That won't be enough for someone to understand the story since all the other text is in Japanese and there are events that require some comprehension (or trial and error) but it's a nice gesture.
Yeah, I know that Dimguil has some English text in it, but like you said it`s only for equipment and stats. Menus, story, messages and descriptions are in JP. I didn`t get very far into the game, but I really liked what I`d played of it. Nice art and music too.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by Ganelon »

Yeah, it's interesting how every JP developer of original Wizardry titles simply goes on to make closely similar games once they lose the Wizardry license or face company restructuring before they can:

ASCII = Wizardry Gaiden series (pre-PS2), Wizardry Dimguil -> company restructure
IRI-CT (ASCII offshoot) = Wizardry Gaiden series (PS2) -> company restructure
Starfish = Wizardry Empire series, Wizardry Asterisk -> Elminage
Atlus = Megami Tensei series <-> BUSIN ~Wizardry Alternative~ series
Taito = Wizardry Summoner -> company restructure
KSS = Wizardry Chronicle -> company restructure
Team Muramasa / Experience = Wizardry XTH series -> Generation XTH series, Students of Round, Meikyuu X Blood Reloaded
Genterprise = Wizardry DS series -> company restructure
Acquire = Class of Heroes series <-> Wizardry PS3 series

A touch of Wizardry inspires fierce loyalty. :)
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by Danny »

Erm I guess this might be the best place to but this but GoG have a 50% off sale on the Might and Magic games this weekend.

Might & Magic 1 - 6 ~ $4.99
Might & Magic 7: Blood and Honor ~ $2.99
Might & Magic 8: Day of the Destroyer ~ $2.99
Might & Magic 9 ~ $2.99

For those too lazy to add all of those to your basket click here and untick the games you don't want.

It's probably for the best that you either start off with M&M 3 or 6 to start with as they are relatively modern and easy to dip in to. 1 and 2 are proper old school computer games meaning that you will have too look at the manuals a lot to see what spells you are casting ect but I still find them super fun. M&M 9 is easily the worst of the series, the GoG version comes with the fan patch that makes it much more bearable and fixed a lot of the crippling bugs that plagued the game at launch. I picked it up because I am a silly completionist who simply must have them all. M&M 7 and 8 are worth owning, they are both excellent games.

Again apologies if this is in the wrong place but I figured if you liked Wizardry you would want to know about this sale. Oh yeah and the sale, it FOR THIS WEEKEND ONLY!
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by cj iwakura »

I feel like this makes me some kind of reverse-purist, but I've never played a single western dungeon crawler. They all felt kind of steep to me.
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Danny
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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You should really give the games a shot as the M&M games are not to bad, complexity wise. Remember each of the game from GoG essentially come with the guide and maps if that's how you like to roll. Personally I like mapping out the dungeons myself, especially in M&M 1 and 2 where you know that each dungeon is a square the size of 15 x 15. The battles are also turn based (although the later games also allow real-time battles too) and the commands are about as easy to grasp as any other early turn based RPG.

edit: check out the Hardcore gaming 101 write up on the series, pretty awesome! :)

http://hardcoregaming101.net/mightandma ... dmagic.htm
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by cj iwakura »

I'm spoiled on games with built in dungeon maps(even with them, SMT1* is the most hellish dungeon crawler I've ever played), but I've cleared Phantasy Star 1 without one, so I think I can manage.

*
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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Ganelon wrote:Atlus = Megami Tensei series <-> BUSIN ~Wizardry Alternative~ series
Did Atlus have anything to do with the games other than publishing them though?
cj iwakura wrote:I feel like this makes me some kind of reverse-purist, but I've never played a single western dungeon crawler. They all felt kind of steep to me.
Historically speaking, Japanese dungeon crawlers were often awkward and downright antiquated experiences compared to their Western contemporaries. SMT1 came out in 1992, one year after Eye of the Beholder II and in the same year with Wizardry VII and Ultima Underworld and it was outdated in its design compared to all three. If you`ve managed to play SMT1 through to completion, you shouldn`t have problems with Western dungeon crawlers. Maybe that`s just me, but I think the latter are much more playable by today`s standards.

You could also try Wizardry VIII. It came out in 2001 and it`s the last official Wizardry game. It brings some major innovations to the gameplay formula and overall feels quite different from its predecessors. Also has an active modding scene(at least it did when I checked back some time ago).
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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Jonathan Ingram wrote:Did Atlus have anything to do with the games other than publishing them though?
Yeah, I listed the companies who, to the best of my knowledge, were responsible for the creation of the respective Wizardry games in the first place (so they're admittedly not all pure developers). Sometimes, developers turn to publishers to release their games and other times, publishers turn to developers to make their games.

Kouji Okada from Atlus was the one who was interested in creating the Wizardry Busin series and contracted Racjin to code the game for them. It's similar to the 2nd DS game where Genterprise wanted to have a sequel and simply hired Suzak for most of the actual development. When a company wants to make a new Wizardry game, history shows that interest never disappears.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by cj iwakura »

Ganelon wrote:
Jonathan Ingram wrote:Did Atlus have anything to do with the games other than publishing them though?
Yeah, I listed the companies who, to the best of my knowledge, were responsible for the creation of the respective Wizardry games in the first place (so they're admittedly not all pure developers). Sometimes, developers turn to publishers to release their games and other times, publishers turn to developers to make their games.

Kouji Okada from Atlus was the one who was interested in creating the Wizardry Busin series and contracted Racjin to code the game for them. It's similar to the 2nd DS game where Genterprise wanted to have a sequel and simply hired Suzak for most of the actual development. When a company wants to make a new Wizardry game, history shows that interest never disappears.
Interesting. I was about to ask about this, since I started up Tale of the Forsaken Land again yesterday.

So Atlus conceived it, and Racjin created it?

I have to say, the atmosphere of this game is still wonderful. The way it sets the setting, introduces your character, brings you into the fold, everything. It really has an Atlus polish to it.


Before that, I tried to give VI & VII Complete another go.

I can't do it. The point of entry in these games is too steep when I can't understand a word.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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Yeah, Busin was created solely because of Atlus. Kouji "Cozy" Okada was always a fan of Wizardry and it showed in the early Megami Tensei and SMT games that he designed. Of course, in Sir-tech's hands, there was apparently little access to the Wizardry license. Ascii did make a Wiz Gaiden series but only after a longstanding relationship creating Wiz ports.

But with Sir-tech USA's bankruptcy and Wizardry 8's huge delay in the late 90s, 1259190 Ontario (owner of the Wiz license for legal reasons) needed money and worked with Four Winds to license the Wizardry brand out to Japanese game companies. Starfish's Wiz Empire, Atlus's Busin, Taito's Wiz Summoner, and KSS's Wiz Chronicle all made their debut under this sublicensing arrangement. It's unclear why Atlus chose Racjin to develop Busin and how much input each party had (just as in modern times, it's not clear how much of Street Fighter IV is Capcom and how much is Dimps) but Racjin was definitely not the company who was responsible for the series being made.

I do notice that I forgot to include Etrian Odyssey (a series where the art keeps me away) with Atlus above so that makes the 3D dungeon crawler world even smaller than ever. Anyway, I don't actually like the atmosphere of the Busin series. Over the years, I've noticed that the Busin crowd seems to also favor Wiz 8, another game I'm not particularly fond of. Wiz 7 was my favorite installment of the cardinal series and I'd much rather be playing console ports/remakes of the earlier titles as well too. Among the JP series, Wiz Empire and the succeeding Elminage games appeal most to me. But hey, the more, the merrier. I'm glad that Wizardry still has plenty of representation nearly 30 years after its debut.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Is there a way to mod the character avatars for Wizardry 7? Playing it in DOSBox, damn some of 'em are ugly, and I haven't found anything like a character icon mod yet or something.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by Ganelon »

IIRC, the Cosmic Forge Editor fan tool has a portrait editor. You may also want to see if the Wiz Gold anime-inspired portraits are more to your taste.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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Ganelon wrote:IIRC, the Cosmic Forge Editor fan tool has a portrait editor. You may also want to see if the Wiz Gold anime-inspired portraits are more to your taste.
Cool. The portraits are so damn small (26x30), makes it tricky to work with.

The anime portraits scare me, and I've heard Wiz Gold has a few extra bugs like Diplomacy doing nothing.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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All the talk about Wizardry prompted me to start a new game of Wizardry V: Heart of the Maelstrom yesterday. The New Age of Llygamyn version, of course. Thunder Stone did a great job with this remake, so it`s hard to go back to the previous versions, if only because of the auto-map. Probably would`ve been more logical to start with Wizardry IV, but I always leave asshole Werdna and his minions for last.

Anyways, I had never bothered to check the contents of the compilation CD before, but I did yesterday and I found something interesting: it seems to contain Wizardry VI related files. There`s a file called 'WIZ6.exe' in the root directory of the disk:

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...and inside the 'WIZ' folder there`s a folder called 'W6' that weighs more than either 'W4' or 'W5'(there are also W1-3 folders but they each contain only a small DAT file):

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Could there have been plans to include the 6th Wizardry game in the compilation? After all, the first compilation did contain three Wizardry games as opposed to just two of the second one. Perhaps there are some old Japanese interviews and announcements regarding this release archived somewhere that could shed some light on the matter?
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by Danny »

Legend of Grimlock is out today on GoG and Steam. Getting some great buzz and a lot of positive reviews. Some are even exclaming that these type of games are "back"!

I have picked it up buti am wondering what do you guys think? Have you played this game yet?
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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Ganelon wrote:Yeah, Busin was created solely because of Atlus. Kouji "Cozy" Okada was always a fan of Wizardry and it showed in the early Megami Tensei and SMT games that he designed.
Haha, reinforces my theory that Atlus lost a good deal of its magic after Okada's departure.

I'm glad that Wizardry TotFL finally received some long overdue respect in the U.S., but I am a little bitter that it took some people so long...I desperately wanted to see the sequel come out in North America.

I accidentally came across a copy of Busin 0 at a Traders in Shinjuku about a month ago. I was trying to stick to a budget gaming-wise and put it back on the shelf. Kind of kicking myself over that. :/
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cj iwakura
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by cj iwakura »

I've heard the sequel isn't as atmospherically story driven as TotFL, just more of a straight dungeon crawl, but I'd still play it.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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Finished Wizardry V a few minutes ago:

Image Image

The last boss is a complete pushover(if you know the trick), but the series of battles that precedes it(the one where you`re forced to fight your clones four times) always gives me trouble. An incredibly hard game overall. Starts out relatively easy, but once you hit the fifth floor things get really ugly. It`s still considerably easier than the original trilogy and Wizardry IV though.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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To this day, Wizardry V on the SNES is the only Wizardry game I've ever managed to complete. CJ made a post on another forum about Labyrinth of Lost Souls a little while ago, though, and that got me to looking up info on the older games. There's no way in hell that I would have ever been able to beat Wizardry II on the NES. All that nonsense with the various keys was just the definition of insanity.
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When hell is full, the Wizardry will walk the earth.

http://www.wizardrythegame.com/
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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Oh man, that actually looks like it might...
SOE
Goddammit.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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CptRansom wrote:Oh man, that actually looks like it might...
SOE
Goddammit.
SOE is only publishing. They haven`t actually developed it. I believe Wizardry Online is by the folks behind Radiant Historia. Either way, it`s been out in Asia for quite some time now.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

Post by Ganelon »

I didn't expect them to localize Wiz Online. This game, and The Elder Scrolls Online, don't make sense to me though. Yeah, the scene is a lot clearer in 3rd person but it's difficult to connect these online installments to their original series.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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Permadeath, eh? I expect a lot of deaths to be caused by lag.
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Re: Wizardry - Labyrinth of Lost Souls being localized!

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Finally got around to playing the PS1 Wizardry: Llylgamyn Saga.

Amazing~

Seriously, it's Wizardry done right, best version I've played so far. The options to use the 'classic' dungeon look or the 'classic' monster look is a nice touch, and unlike the Wizardry compilation for the SNES or the older NES ports, the second scenario 'Knight of Diamonds' is at the full original difficulty. The NES and SNES versions of Knight of Diamonds replaced or weakened the monsters on the early floors because Knight of Diamonds was originally intended for level 13+, essentially an expansion pack to the first game, but the console releases made it so a starting level 1 party could do fine. The PC-based versions wouldn't even let you make new characters; you had to import ones from the first game just to play!

In the PS1 release, all of the monsters are the original, harder ones you'd expect to need level 13+ to take on (you're given a default party to use if you like too, and they're all at level 10). And, unlike PC versions, you can make level 1 characters in Knight of Diamonds if you really want to for some reason (even though it's generally suicidal, it's still nice to have the option without having to exit back to the first game to make a new character).

And there's a bestiary and item collection list for each game to track what you've seen! Awesome!

So, only question is this: what are the menu options below the language toggles?

I can tell the one above BGM appears to select between stereo and monoaural sound, and the two below are for selecting the classic map/monster looks I think, what're the rest of them? The one two above from BGM, does that enable/disable the automap feature? What are the bottom two options? Also (even though I can't read Japanese), what's the difference between the top two Japanese (1) and (2) settings? One disables Kanji to make it easier or something? Just curious.
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