DVDO EDGE - How it performs

[Fudoh]

Lag is minimal via the EDGE when you use the GAMER MODE (6ms IIRC).

you can check the actual lag by moving the audio delay slider all the way to the left end. It will show you the actual lag you currently get. I think the Edge has got 8ms in gamemode.

I would also advise to turn the Gamemode off for 480i when the type of game allows it. The deinterlacing without gamemode if breathtakingly good and at roughly 3 frames delay, it's still acceptable for anything RPG-like. Also set the deinterlacing to forced video to avoid deinterlacing errors caused by filmmode/videomode mismatch...

Maybe I could pay you or somebody else to put this together and send it my way?

shouldn't be a problem. There are so many skilled modders around that someone should be able to help you out. For easiest handling, get a female Scart plug with 6 RCA plugs on the other end (R/G/B/S + Audio L/R).

[BuckoA51]

brandonp514 your situation sounds a lot like mine, so have a look at the website in my signature if you still have questions. It's perfectly possible to route VGA, Component AND SCART to the Edge with minimal switching, in a nutshell here's how I do it:-

VGA connects to the bottom analogue input, RGBHV, just get a VGA to 5 RCA cable.
Now, you'll need an RGB SCART to 4 RCA cable, like this one:- http://www.keene.co.uk/electronic/keene ... SBB61.html

Again, Keene's stuff is expensive (not to mention shipping) so you may prefer to build your own or get it custom made over in the USA. As someone else pointed out, getting it custom made you could add audio L/R into the mix too.

Now, get a scart switch, any fully manual one will do, pop one of these on your SCART switch inputs (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hama-Scart-RGB-Co ... 588c816b57) and route your component video through it, pop your SNES into the other input. The EDGE will detect when you send it component and when you send it RGB SCART and handle it appropriately.

Remember you can route component through SCART switching equipment but not the other way around.

Of course the big problem is having only one analogue audio input, but since the picture lag is minimal you can just route the audio directly to an amp/reciever. There's more details on my site anyway.

A word of warning about the Edge, the biggest problem I've found with them is reliability. I'm on my third one now and it's still faulty, I recommend buying new and getting the max guarantee you can.

edit - Just checked your post again and I see you don't even want to hook up VGA, where's your Dreamcast?! Anyway the above still mostly applies.

[brandonp514]

Fudoh,

I'm excited about getting the Edge, it's going to be hard to convince the wife that I need this expensive piece of equipment especially after already buying inferior cheap adapters that I shouldn't have bought in the first place. I'm going to try and get it as a birthday present from multiple people to chip in for it.

So once I get the Edge could you give me some contact info for some people who could purchase the equipment and create me a custom cable to use Scart for my SNES? I still think I'm going to be plugging cables in and out of the Edge because I will have 4 Component inputs. PSP, PS2, Wii, SNES through Scart are all component. I've heard that the Edge can full screen a PSP? That would be great!

BuckoA51,

I've read your website in detail and trust me it has a lot of great info. It still left me a bit confused about all that I would need to get for Scart to work. Sometimes I just need to see all these adapters connected to visually understand how it's going to look.

On the reliability of the Edge, what has happened to it for you to be on your 3rd one and THAT one be faulty as well? I don't have a dreamcast because I never played any games on it, lol. Contrary to most people on here I'm an RPG player. However, I still find lag annoying even in RPGs. There are some times in an RPG where timing is important. Obviously not the same as in a shoot em up, but still it's there. I'm thinking of instead of using the PS3 for PS1 games to just hook up PS1 games through my PS2 through the DVDO Edge on Gamer mode to reduce Lag. Would you say that lag through the Edge on NON gamer mode to still be faster than a PS3?

[Fudoh]

So once I get the Edge could you give me some contact info for some people who could purchase the equipment and create me a custom cable to use Scart for my SNES?

since I don't live in the, you're likely better off finding somebody in the USA. I'm sure you can find somebody either here or on the gamesx.com RGB boards. I could name you somebody over here, but shipping overseas is expensive...

[BuckoA51]

First DVDO Edge it was not possible to update the firmware on.
Second one worked but kept blanking the picture when fed a 1080p signal, I spent months troubleshooting this until AVToad here in the UK agreed to swap it.
Third one has a faulty digital audio input, anything I feed in through the digital audio (including the coax) inputs comes out garbled. This is being returned for servicing tomorrow.

You absolutely don't need to cable swap with your setup, SCART switches are very common and you can route component straight through them. I'll draw you a little diagram of how I would do it, if you like?

[brandonp514]

Bucko,

That would be great, please show me what I would need to do. Hopefully after being around you guys and learning I won't need to have things spelled out for me like a noobie but for now I just ask for your patience.

Thanks Fudoh! I guess this question is applicable for you since I've read your website religiously, lol. What is the difference in lag/quality of a DVDO Edge with a PS1 game on a PS2 system via component VS PS3 playing PS1 via HDMI? I've noticed I see pretty bad deinerlacing when hooking up my PS2 directly component to TV playing a 480i game. What I see is sometimes theres empty lines through characters on every other lines as if you can actually see the interlaced lines. Would the Edge fix that?

[fagin]

This is my Female to Female SCART block that I have modified with AUDIO breakouts.



This is a normal SCART to audio and composite block, that is normally available with consoles you buy. This one came with the XBOX360. Totally useless to me otherwise but I dug it out of my "stash" cupboard, cracked it open and resoldered the phono's to the new SCART PIN's I needed. This block now breakouts to R G B and Composite Video (CVBS), which feeds straight in to the EDGE.



If I can be arsed to build something I will.... If I can't I will just buy the solution. Depends what mood I am in! lol

[Fudoh]

hat is the difference in lag/quality of a DVDO Edge with a PS1 game on a PS2 system via component VS PS3 playing PS1 via HDMI?

PS1/2 + Edge is significantly faster than the PS3. On the other hand the 1080p rendering of PS1 on the PS3 looks amazing (if you don't want scalines and like the razor sharp scaling) - that's something you cannot achieve with a PS1/2 and an Edge.

I've noticed I see pretty bad deinerlacing when hooking up my PS2 directly component to TV playing a 480i game. What I see is sometimes theres empty lines through characters on every other lines as if you can actually see the interlaced lines. Would the Edge fix that?

yes, both in Gamemode (where just a single 240-line field is upscaled) and in true Videomode (where two adjacing fields are used to calculate the best possible 480p image) - - for the difference refer to the OutRun2 pics posted earlier.

[BuckoA51]

Here's how I'd connect things in Brandon's situation, I'm the opposite I hate soldering anything :-



A - A 4 way component switch box, available on Amazon US - http://www.amazon.com/Port-Component-Vi ... 088&sr=8-3

B - Famicom/NTSC SNES SCART cable with audio breakout, available from several places, such as Rob Webb's site (again in the UK, SCART is all over the place here) - http://www.consolegoods.co.uk/

C - Scart gender changer/coupler - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hama-00043545-S ... 188&sr=8-1

D - Scart to 4 Phono/RCA cable - http://www.keene.co.uk/electronic/keene ... SBB61.html

Since the Edge only has one analogue audio input, you'd simply set the component switch to input 4, which would have nothing but the SNES audio on it, then choose the other RGB input on the Edge and you'd be good to go.

Sorry for the rough nature of the diagram, I should really be working

[trunk]

I think Bucko's picture is a great representation of what needs to be done.
------------------------------------

This is my Female to Female SCART block that I have modified with AUDIO breakouts.

That's funny, it looks exactly the same as the one I have made(breakout box must be the same.
------------------------------------
Brandon,

As an alternative to the scart RGBS breakout cable, I have wired one of these

found in TX, USA at http://www.svideo.com/ypbprsv1.html
The box is hollow and easy to open for modification.

What I did was remove(desolder) the s-video jack and wire in sync and audio cables running through the s-video hole, since RGB and component share similar pinouts on a SCART plug. When used with a SCART F-F coupler it does the job well. I am using it to get RGBS from the extron emotia to scart for my SD CRT.

[brandonp514]

You guys ROCK! I hate to take you away from your work, so you better get back!

Honestly, awesome job man. Now that I see it I obviously completely understand. Now I may not need to ask so many questions Someday I hope to be giving people advice rather than asking for it!

[brandonp514]

One more question guys, can the DVDO Edge properly zoom in PSP to full screen?

[BuckoA51]

It can zoom anything so no reason why PSP would not work, though I don't have one to try.

[brandonp514]

Another question

How do you get the SLG3000 to work with the Edge w/ an HDFury. The HDFury has DVI on one end and VGA on the other. So I guess you need HDMI to DVI adapter with audio breakout? How does that work? Do you think they'll ever make an SLG3000 with HDMI input/output?

[SGGG2]

The edge has a separate optical audio output. If you go with a Fury3 that has a optical/line output.

[BuckoA51]

Not sure why you are getting alot of ringing when processing the XRGB signal.... I don't. Yes you get a bit, but the biggest thing is that the extra processing takes sharpness away. You certainly get a load less ringing when dealing with a 240p from XRGB in to the EDGE, than you do with a 240p signal direct to the EDGE.

It's very easy to see just how much softer the image is if you bring up the XRGB-3 menu. Especially compared to the Gefen where it looked pixelperfect.

Strange you should say this, on my Edge the XRGB3 menu is perfect and stable, on the Gefen it is not, and I don't see any ringing.

[Konsolkongen]

I made the RGBs cable just now. MVS doesn't work. It get confused about the signal and on the info screen it keeps changing between component and RGB input. Master System converter works fine, but it looks like crap. Without a doubt the worst RGB picture I have ever seen

SMS converter > EDGE:


SMS converter > XRGB2+ > EDGE:


The first image is obviously softer and there is more ringing around the branch. The image from the 2+ is also a bit softer than the XRGB-3's so if the SMS converter worked on that it would look a little bit better. The ringing is pretty much gone when adding scanlines though I'm guessing that using the SLG3000 after the EDGE has butchered the RGBs input will improve a lot of things, but if you don't like scanlines then having the EDGE handling your 240p RGBs things is a very bad idea
I have yet to try 240p using component.

EDIT: About the ringing on 480p. You can just make out the ringing below the SOL-letters and the gauge here:


EDIT2: It looks exactly the same in 480i without Game Mode.

[fagin]

I get the most minute amount of ringing on 480p input stuff from the EDGE... to the point that you can't see it unless your nose is touching the screen. However I agree about the 240p signals.... they look aweful without any scanlines via the SLG3000.

[Konsolkongen]

I agree. The ringing on 480p is nothing to bitch about. I just wanted to point out that it's there And that's about the amount of ringing I was expecting anyway when I ordered it

[fagin]

Understand mate.... but in reference to your picture I don't see ringing to even that level.

I have also retest running the XRGB-2+ into the EDGE to erradicate the XRGB wobble (not that I need this solution now, since I have managed to erradicate the wobble natively now). The EDGE certainly gets rid of all but a very tiny bit, which is very very hard to see even with you being in nose touching distance of the screen. The only downside is that the EDGE softens the XRGB picture ever so slightly.

What firmware version are you on... I'm on the latest v1.6 Also how good is your component lead?

[Konsolkongen]

1.6 here too. My component is decent I guess. It used to be 3 meters but now I have shortened it down to about 40cm. There are no shorts, and the soldering seemed nice enough

The VGA to RCA lead on the other hand is a shitty rush job I did yesterday. I had an old VGA to BNC lead where I had cut off the BNC ends because I needed them for another project. I then cut up a lot of stereo cables and soldered the ends to the VGA cable.

I have another (whole) VGA to BNC cable and I have ordered a bunch of BNC to RCA adaptors. Perhaps that will improve the VGA input quality a bit

[fagin]

Sorry I was referring to your 480p ringing so not worried about your VGA to RGBHV lead.

[Konsolkongen]

I know

[Fudoh]

And now imagine my chin dropping when I first saw the HD3000 after having a DVDO processor for about 2 years.

ABT's scaling engine is fantastic for good SD video material. Watching a good DVD on the Edge is an enlightment through and through. The downside is it's ringing on graphics material. When the Edge was introduced no DVDO processor would handle 240p, so this actually looked like 480i/p at this point. After more than 6 months of testing beta FWs 240p was working, but it was a bummer to see the amount of halos it adds.

One point that still disappoints me today is that even 480p analogue input -> 480p digital output adds a bit of ringing. I never understood why since the scaling engine shouldn't even be involved up to this point. This is why a pure transcoding solution into the TV might still look better (but you are of course battling the 720 vs 640 pixel clock problem again).

When you say the the SMS picture looks bad, I'm wondering why. Does the signal using the SMS converter differ from the signal the MD outputs when you play a SMS rom on the Everdrive cart ? Also sorry to hear that the MVS still doesn't work on your setup. If you have the time you should try MVS - Extron RGB Interface - Edge. Pay attention to the proper Dip switch settings on the Extron to make it resync the signal.

[BuckoA51]

Here's a shot of the SMS converter 1 running on a comp sync modified Genesis. I wouldn't say the picture is terrible, just kinda soft, but it certainly looks nicer through XRGB3->Edge, unfortunately it won't stay on for more than about 10 minutes then.



Sorry about the flash mark, I took another with the flash off but it came out worse, and I couldn't be bothered doing it again.

[alamone]

I have also retest running the XRGB-2+ into the EDGE to erradicate the XRGB wobble (not that I need this solution now, since I have managed to erradicate the wobble natively now).

How did you manage to remove the wobble in the 2+? That was my main problem with the 2+.
Is it an issue with unstable H and V syncs coming out of the VGA output?
I do have an Extron SC 210 but not sure if it would help stabilize the signal.

I've read that using a Extron Emotia solves the problem but it seems kind of pointless to
upscan to 31khz and then downscan again to 15khz, unless I'm missing something.

[Konsolkongen]

When you say the the SMS picture looks bad, I'm wondering why. Does the signal using the SMS converter differ from the signal the MD outputs when you play a SMS rom on the Everdrive cart ?

No I just meant in general 240p handled by the Edge looks pretty bad. However, Saturn with RGB > EDGE and PS2 (ESPgaluda) with component > EDGE doesn't look nearly as bad as the MegaDrive. Perhaps the colorbooster I build for my MegaDrive 1 is to blame here? Bucko's shot certainly looks a lot sharper than mine does.

Also sorry to hear that the MVS still doesn't work on your setup. If you have the time you should try MVS - Extron RGB Interface - Edge. Pay attention to the proper Dip switch settings on the Extron to make it resync the signal.

No problem, the MVS > XRGB2+ > EDGE works fine. It's also stuttering a bit less than MVS > XRGB2+ > Gefen it seems

[BuckoA51]

Certainly when upscaling the XRGB3's output I struggle to see the difference between Edge and Gefen:-

[Konsolkongen]

Then can you take a picture of the XRGB-3's OSD up close using both upscalers? There is a hell of a difference there. I will take a few myself when I get home.

Perhaps my shitty VGA to RCA cable is to blame?

[Konsolkongen]

This is an old picture I took of the XRGB-3's OSD using the Gefen. It's pixelperfect:


And here is the EDGE:


How does it look on yours?