DVDO EDGE - How it performs

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Konsolkongen
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Konsolkongen »

RGB is recommended though since the native dynamic range for videogames is 0-255 while all YCbCr color spaces are limited to 16-235. The most important thing about is that your TV has to be set to the same color space. Some TVs will only accept RGB, others only YCbCr, others both, some automatically, others manually.
So if I set the EDGE to RGB and I still get a picture on the TV that should be fine?

Thank you very much for explaining this. I will change the settings to you recomendations later :)
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Fudoh
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

So if I set the EDGE to RGB and I still get a picture on the TV that should be fine?
yes. Just make sure that your whole chain delivers/gets full range RGB (edge setting: computer; 360 setting: extended range)
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Konsolkongen
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Konsolkongen »

I've only tried this with the PS3 yet, but if I set the Input on the EDGE to RGB the picture gets brighter. But if I leave it at auto it still sees the input as RGB when I press Info. Can I keep it at auto since it says RGB anyway? Otherwise I can just lower the brightness on the EDGE.
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BuckoA51
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by BuckoA51 »

I wonder if playing with these colour settings will stop the hard clipping I get at video black (visible when I run my video essentials calibration disc) ?
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

I wonder if playing with these colour settings will stop the hard clipping I get at video black (visible when I run my video essentials calibration disc) ?
depends on the BD player's decoder as well . The BTB (blacker than black) area is not supposed to be visible after calibration anyway.
Can I keep it at auto since it says RGB anyway? Otherwise I can just lower the brightness on the EDGE.
you should set your display's brightness to a level so that the picture looks good WITHOUT adding (or decreasing) brightness on the Edge. You can do this by using the Edge's pattern.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Konsolkongen »

Alright thanks :)

A REALLY nice thing about the EDGE is the sound inputs > HDMI audio output. My receiver "looses sync" on optical inputs when there is no sound. This can be really annoying when playing a game with dialog and no background noise as the first part of a sentence will often be cut off. My receiver doesn't suffer from this retardedness using its HDMI input so the EDGE's sound passthrough is a godsend here :)
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by BuckoA51 »

I never encountered a receiver that didn't have that audio drop-out problem, interesting to know that HDMI doesn't do it, still can't really afford that HDMI receiver I want though...
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Konsolkongen
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Konsolkongen »

Pretty sure my old Yamaha didn't have this problem. The one I have now, Sony STR-DG820, probably isn't very good if you care a lot about audio. It was the best one at the time in my local store when I needed it. Other than the optical dropouts and a shortage of analog inputs I think it's alright :)

I've encountered a bug with the EDGE. If you have PS3 and another source (XRGB-3, 360) and you have one of these selected and turns it off, the EDGE will fail to display the PS3 again. All I get is snow. Using the Auto source select or doing it manually doesn't matter. This could be a PS3, 1080p (PS3 is the only console I have running in this res) or a HDMI 1-input issue.
Turning the EDGE off and on again fixes this every time. Happens with both 1.6 and beta firmware and only once the second input has been turned on, viewed and turned off again while the PS3 was still active. I don't really see this as a big deal since I'll hardly be using two game systems at a time :)
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trunk
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by trunk »

What is the priority list of your devices for auto select? I'm going to try the PS3 with the xbox360 or xrgb3 and see what happens on my machine.

My priority for inputs is as follows(I think):

1. HD dvd player(1080i)
2. xbox 360(720p)
3. ps3(720p)
4. wii(480p)
5. xrgb-3

I know you said you got the problem using manual select but the priority list will still have an effect.

I have gotten snow before when changing inputs through powering but it happens for just a moment and then the signal kicks in correctly.

What I do get though is stuttering with the optical audio inputs of the edge(this is not the audio fade in as described above):

x360(optical)->Edge->receiver Stutters
x360(optical)->optical switch->receiver Perfect

So I run my optical outputs to a manual switch to my receiver instead of through the edge(x360,ps3,hd-dvd player).

Anybody else experience this?

Other than that I consider the Edge a critical part of my av setup and I am not quite sure how I survived without it in the past.
Current Setup:

720P------------------------v
240P->XRGB-3->Edge->4x2 matrix->DLP HDTV
480i/P->YPbPrselect-^ . . ^ . . V-->hdmi2vga->Super Emotia->Tate CRT SDTV
PC->vga2hdmi-------------^
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Fudoh
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

"snow" is a HDCP handshake issue. The PS3's signal is decrypted and forces the HDMI output of the EDGE to be HDCP encoded as well, while your other source (e.g. XRGB) isn't protected. Switching and forcing another HDCP handshake is unfortunately always a bit critical.
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Fudoh
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

So I run my optical outputs to a manual switch to my receiver instead of through the edge(x360,ps3,hd-dvd player).
why do you use optical outputs from those systems anyway, when all three carry their digital audio signal through HDMI ?
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trunk
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by trunk »

Fudoh wrote:
So I run my optical outputs to a manual switch to my receiver instead of through the edge(x360,ps3,hd-dvd player).
why do you use optical outputs from those systems anyway, when all three carry their digital audio signal through HDMI ?
My receiver does not have HDMI only optical and analog. I think I remember trying to get optical out of the edge taking the audio from HDMI and that the result was not favorable, but it's another thing I should try again.
Current Setup:

720P------------------------v
240P->XRGB-3->Edge->4x2 matrix->DLP HDTV
480i/P->YPbPrselect-^ . . ^ . . V-->hdmi2vga->Super Emotia->Tate CRT SDTV
PC->vga2hdmi-------------^
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Fudoh
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

You should. While I don't have an Edge in my setup, that's how I've used my DVDO for years now. HDMI in from various systems and coax digital to my amp.
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trunk
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by trunk »

So I setup an audio test scenario as follows:
x360 and ps3 connecting both optical and hdmi.

console(optical)->switch(optical)->receiver(optical)
console(hdmi)->edge(optical)->switch(optical)->receiver(optical)

This way I could just change the switch and edge to get audio from the edge or from the console. x360 output both at the same time, ps3 I had to go into the sound settings and change back and forth.

console(optical)->switch(optical)->receiver(optical)
worked great on both machines

console(hdmi)->edge(optical)->switch(optical)->receiver(optical)
audio stutters every so often(maybe around 30 second intervals) on BOTH consoles whether it be in game or in the menu listening to music. It seems like the edge is having trouble processing quick enough hdmi->optical.

I did not hook up the optical from the console to the edge to see if it stutters because I ran out of wiring time but I'm pretty sure I had the stuttering problem that way too.

So I usually just use the optical out of the console but leave the edge on the switch so I can easily test the situation.

The switch is not to blame in the chain of the edge because when I first got the edge I put the switch away all together. When I had the problem hdmi->optical, I tried optical in from console->edge.
In the end I had to pull the switch back out and wire it in because of the audio problems.

I only have optical input and not digital coax on the receiver so I cannot test if it stutters.

The receiver is a samsung HT-DM150.
---------------------------------------------------

As for the snow problem(HDCP) Konsolkongen had I could not reproduce it. I switched freely between ps3, x360, and xrgb-3, auto or manual and it found the PS3 every time.

Also the edge did see my xrgb-3 as YPbPr just like Konsolkongen's screenshot.
Current Setup:

720P------------------------v
240P->XRGB-3->Edge->4x2 matrix->DLP HDTV
480i/P->YPbPrselect-^ . . ^ . . V-->hdmi2vga->Super Emotia->Tate CRT SDTV
PC->vga2hdmi-------------^
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Konsolkongen
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Konsolkongen »

trunk wrote: As for the snow problem(HDCP) Konsolkongen had I could not reproduce it. I switched freely between ps3, x360, and xrgb-3, auto or manual and it found the PS3 every time.
Yes but you have to turn off the other sources before this happens. When all is powered on I can switch freely between them too :)

If you are interested I can try filming it, but I only have the camera in my phone.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by fagin »

Fudoh,
Please put up the current beta and pre 240p recognition.... will be interesting to have a play. 8)
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

here's the latest one: http://pms.hazard-city.de/EDGE_162_143.zip

I'm not really sure when the 240p support was exactly added, so here's a 120_v067 version, http://pms.hazard-city.de/EDGE_120_067.abt , dated 16th december 2008. I've got 36 different FW files from 2008 and 2009 alone. The 240p implementation was done quick quick since the fix was developed on the 50pro before already.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by fagin »

Fudoh wrote:here's the latest one: http://pms.hazard-city.de/EDGE_162_143.zip

I'm not really sure when the 240p support was exactly added, so here's a 120_v067 version, http://pms.hazard-city.de/EDGE_120_067.abt , dated 16th december 2008. I've got 36 different FW files from 2008 and 2009 alone. The 240p implementation was done quick quick since the fix was developed on the 50pro before already.
Many thanks mate.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by fagin »

Fudoh wrote:here's the latest one: http://pms.hazard-city.de/EDGE_162_143.zip

I'm not really sure when the 240p support was exactly added, so here's a 120_v067 version, http://pms.hazard-city.de/EDGE_120_067.abt , dated 16th december 2008. I've got 36 different FW files from 2008 and 2009 alone. The 240p implementation was done quick quick since the fix was developed on the 50pro before already.
240p still recognised on that 120_v067 FW.... have you got an earlier one mate?
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by BuckoA51 »

why do you use optical outputs from those systems anyway, when all three carry their digital audio signal through HDMI ?
When HDCP is enabled in the signal it is not possible to re-route the audio to the optical output. On the 360 this is not a problem as HDCP is not enabled, on the PS3 it's enabled all the time, so you won't get any sound unless you use the optical in from the PS3.

I've had a faulty Edge that did the audio stuttering thing (as in randomly stuttering, not just cutting out when silent), normally the optical audio in/out from the Edge is absolutely fine, I'd get it serviced if its still in warranty.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

When HDCP is enabled in the signal it is not possible to re-route the audio to the optical output.
Oh, I wasn't aware of that. On my DVDO this works just fine. I actually do this with my PS3 (HDMI only to the 50Pro), from there HDMI to the TV and coax to the amp.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

Try http://pms.hazard-city.de/EDGE_v52.abt

I think I remember that 240p support for composite and component has been added very early, while RGBs 240p support was added later. Did you check with YUV or with RGBs ?
Last edited by Fudoh on Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by fagin »

WOW - The difference in 240p lack of ringing is like night and day with that FW version.

Any chance you could zip up from that FW up to 120_067 and publish so I can have a play.

Thanks for all of this.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by fagin »

PS1 MSX 240p game via RGBs to EDGE

Edge with proper 240p recognition (later firmware)
Image

Edge with 240p recognised as 480i (early firmware)
Image

Quite a difference as you can see.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by BuckoA51 »

Oh, I wasn't aware of that. On my DVDO this works just fine. I actually do this with my PS3 (HDMI only to the 50Pro), from there HDMI to the TV and coax to the amp.
Well that's what the user manual said, I should try it to be sure.

I am guessing there are other problems with 240p as a trade off for the slightly sharper picture though?
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

yes, missing 240p recognition means other problems, mainly deinterlacing artefacts, broken 30Hz shadow effects and so on... The VP20 and VP30 behave just like this.

Here's everything between the two posted firmwares: http://pms.hazard-city.de/edge.zip

Depending on one's setup it might be ok to use an older firmware. There's nothing videogame related I can think of that was not working back then, so if the Edge is used as a videogame hub (PS3, 360, 480p YUV sources etc) and 240p sources are routed through the XRGB anyway, this should be ok.

PS: MSX on PS1 is a 30fps title, so if checking for deinterlacing errors on the 480i vs 240p front that's not the best title.
Last edited by Fudoh on Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by fagin »

Fudoh - You're a gent! :D

Now... if they could of kept the sharpness on recognised 240p input the EDGE would of been seriously kick ass.

Artifacts aside... the image looks very very nice.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

Now... if they could of kept the sharpness on recognised 240p input the EDGE would of been seriously kick ass.
my theory was that they need to implement an additional processing step. At this time the 240p source is directly upscaled to the output resolution (which obviously causes the softness and the ringing). They should (hard-)double the lines first and then scale the image. Unfortunately the engineer at ABT who worked with me on this (Dale Adams) dropped out of ABT's services shortly after getting the initial 240p recognition done.... (and that would be possible on the FPBA-based 50pro only and not on the ASIC-based Edge anway).
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Daytime Dreamer »

New member here, although I've been a lurker for quite some time

I have read Fudoh's site many times over and I cant decide whats the best thing to combine the SLG3000 with, in terms of picture quality and lag

I have a panasonic plasma and I'm trying to connect these consoles

PS1, PS2, Neo Geo (AES and MVS) and a supergun with some PCB's

Any help is appreciated
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Fudoh
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

Does your TV still have a VGA input ?
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