Questions that do not deserve a thread

[VEGETA]

Hello

I need to extend my twin famicom original controllers, I could cut the wires from outside the console then do the extension but was looking for something more elegant if possible with proven wiring diagrams.

for your kind help

You could just open up the controllers, desolder the wires and extend them with a new multicore lead and some heat shrink, that'd be rather easy to do and wouldn't require any knowledge or wiring diagrams. On the regular Famicom the controllers are not soldered in on the console side but connect to a header. If that's the case for the Twin Famicom as well you could make an extension cable for that. I personally would just leave the console untouched and use the extension port with a regular external Famicom controller. IIRC they're just regular DB-15 and a Neo Geo controller extension cable might work if they're still too short for you. If you need two controllers you can also get Famicom->2x NES adapters and use any pair of NES controllers with it.

thanks for your input. your solution is what i wrote above which is just cut the cable and extend it.

i know the expansion port but i really want to use the original controllers... i only need 20-30 cm, not much since I am sitting nearby... heck even mere 10 cm could do it but 20 cm would be perfect.

what i had in mine is to use a small solder board like this one: https://imgur.com/ZEZJhNv

where i solder each wire from both sides to the same point then make them all covered with capton tape then a heatshrink. one per each controller would be fine.

i saw this product: https://www.gamedoctorhk.com/index.php? ... ts_id=2027

but not sure if i would need it and there are 2 versions of it. i don't understand from the picture how should it be used + out of stock.

[jd213]

FC (and maybe Twin FC) controllers might need resistors added when their cords are extended: https://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/t ... -a-famicom

I did this when I spliced on an NES extension cable onto a FC and one of its controllers, I don't use it much but seems to work fine, except for some reason the controller needs to go through another extension cable when I use it with my AV FC.

[ASDR]

Ah, needs a pullup resistor with a longer connection?

I quickly took out a spare set of Famicom PCBs I had around, and the controller connector stuff looks rather different than on the Twin Famicom:

Spoiler

Sorry, no idea what that fancy wiring hardness you linked does.

I would not cut any cables, I would simply desolder them on the controller side. You can use one of those little stripboard PCBs tou linked if you think it'll help with strain relief.

You could also build an adapter cable. Just a set of male/female pinheader connectors. The advantage would be that you can restore everything to 100% original simply by removing the adapter cable you build.

[VEGETA]

I read on another forum that the twin famicom connectors are JST XH 2.54mm type, 5 pin for player 1 and 6 pin for player 2. these type of connectors are available locally.

The locally available ones are of 20 cm length, so I could unplug the original controllers from the mother board... then make a simple adapter cable from the new connectors and connect it to the mother board from one side.

its other side is routed near the end of the case where controller cords exit, and there is connected to original controller. by doing this i could gain at least 15 cm of original controller length which could be enough.

I am kinda worried about this pull-up resistor thing as i need more data to verify especially where to solder these and what value of resistors that can work. if you got any reliable source for this please link it.

[ASDR]

I read on another forum that the twin famicom connectors are JST XH 2.54mm type, 5 pin for player 1 and 6 pin for player 2. these type of connectors are available locally.

Sounds about right, I always get confused about what they're actually called, there's all kinds of variants, different Game Gear versions for instance use different ones internally etc. Glad you found the actual spec, should be cheap and easy to buy. Making an extension cable sounds like a good idea, it's completely reversible in case it doesn't work or you change your mind.

Since you only extend them a little bit, you could just try without the resistor mod first? Worst case you remove your adapter cable and do some more research.

[VEGETA]

I read on another forum that the twin famicom connectors are JST XH 2.54mm type, 5 pin for player 1 and 6 pin for player 2. these type of connectors are available locally.

Sounds about right, I always get confused about what they're actually called, there's all kinds of variants, different Game Gear versions for instance use different ones internally etc. Glad you found the actual spec, should be cheap and easy to buy. Making an extension cable sounds like a good idea, it's completely reversible in case it doesn't work or you change your mind.

Since you only extend them a little bit, you could just try without the resistor mod first? Worst case you remove your adapter cable and do some more research.

I will surely try to do such a mod soon enough. And yes it could work without resistors. I believe I can put the resistors there by soldering them to the connector pins from the bottom side of the main board. this would be easiest but i could also do them insider the pads themselves.

see my setup here: https://imgur.com/a/CZR0Dko

I will be sitting very close to the Twin Famicom. I think even 10 cm will be enough, 15-20 would be very nice but I will check more when I return.

I hoped that someone here did the twin famicom controller conversion. I think it is a much needed mod since most people play from long distances.

[jd213]

I am kinda worried about this pull-up resistor thing as i need more data to verify especially where to solder these and what value of resistors that can work. if you got any reliable source for this please link it.

It's apparently based on the resistors used in the dogbone controllers.

Same modder made a post on Famicom World stating that he also used the resistors in the Twin FC controllers:
https://www.famicomworld.com/forum/inde ... pic=9527.0

[ASDR]

Sweet setup! When I first got my Famicom I just embraced that it was clearly meant to sit next to you on the floor or the couch instead of an A/V rack. The short controller cords that quite clear. Was actually nice to have the cart slot and reset button so accessible. Eventually I got tired of the stock controllers (uncomfortable cable placement and dpad not good for diagonals) and just put the Famicom on the rack and used an external controller.

[VEGETA]

I am kinda worried about this pull-up resistor thing as i need more data to verify especially where to solder these and what value of resistors that can work. if you got any reliable source for this please link it.

It's apparently based on the resistors used in the dogbone controllers.

Same modder made a post on Famicom World stating that he also used the resistors in the Twin FC controllers:
https://www.famicomworld.com/forum/inde ... pic=9527.0

so these 2 resistors are 3.6k, which means i can just use 3.3k which is close enough... if needed that is.

So the thread mentions i need to pull up CUP and OUT0 to VCC via 3.6k resistor... if so then it can be just added to the bottom of the connector via soldering. or maybe just inside the controller pad itself if there is some place to solder.

Sweet setup! When I first got my Famicom I just embraced that it was clearly meant to sit next to you on the floor or the couch instead of an A/V rack. The short controller cords that quite clear. Was actually nice to have the cart slot and reset button so accessible. Eventually I got tired of the stock controllers (uncomfortable cable placement and dpad not good for diagonals) and just put the Famicom on the rack and used an external controller.

thanks.

such systems suffer from keep moving them. the cart will wiggle and you would need to keep putting it and taking it out, the cables will suffer as well. the solution is put it and not moving it... extending controllers is best solution;

[VEGETA]

i checked dogbone controller teardown videos but found no resistor to be inside, so where did they got the resistor stuff from?

[jd213]

I believe the resistors are tiny surface-mounted ones, but I haven't verified their values myself.

edit: looks like they are indeed 3.6k: https://youtu.be/UKMO5tlANEU?t=750

[VEGETA]

I believe the resistors are tiny surface-mounted ones, but I haven't verified their values myself.

edit: looks like they are indeed 3.6k: https://youtu.be/UKMO5tlANEU?t=750

yes but only one is near the connector, but as long as that poster verified it works then ok.

i only have 3k and 3.9k values which I think they will work, pull-ups and pull-downs are not really that important in terms of value. but will order the cables first and see;.

[VEGETA]

I tore down my twin famicom player 1 controller, see images here: https://imgur.com/a/mHq4r01

it has some resistors inside and i measured them to be like this:

r3 47k
r5 220 from red to chip pin 3 (qd ??)
r2 220 from yellow to chip pin 9 (p/s)
r4 1k
r1 251k


green wire -> vcc
brown wire -> gnd

what do you think?

my twin famicom is the blue and black model with turbo stuff in controller which is the most modern one.

could be these resistors are enough for it to be stable?

we need precise wiring colors for the twin famicom to be sure.

[Steven]

So what's the deal with the input lag on the Steam Deck OLED? I have one and want to get rid of as much lag as possible. I am also a person who can't tell the difference between 2 frames of lag and 6~7 frames of lag, so although this thing supposedly has several frames of lag that I can't detect, I still want to minimize it as much as possible. Digital Foundry's lag testing was rather... calling it "basic and not very helpful at all" would be a great understatement.

I no missed R-Type Final 2 on this thing the other day, so it probably isn't that bad, but yeah.

[vol.2]

Seems like the typical way to do it is to cap the refresh rate at 40Hz. I'm hearing people say that looks fine to them in such a small screen, and the oled helps a lot. Not sure if there are any other tricks, but the issue seems to stem from the fact that it's just not quite powerful enough to run newer games at high settings that people are used to. It internally caps to 60Hz, but that's apparently not low enough for some games

I would say it's the kind of thing that you would only want to do if you notice the lag, because the way I've heard it explained, it only lags if the game is fighting between the host rate and internally set rate of vsync. At least try 40Hz to see if you notice a difference first

[bobrocks95]

The OLED Steam Deck runs up to 90Hz. And keep in mind of course that a 40Hz cap will also add lag. If you can't hit 60 on something, much better to lower the graphical settings on that game (though capping keeps things consistent).

[orange808]

The OLED Steam Deck runs up to 90Hz. And keep in mind of course that a 40Hz cap will also add lag. If you can't hit 60 on something, much better to lower the graphical settings on that game (though capping keeps things consistent).

That's true, but it's also complicated when you use a frame cap with a high refresh rate. It's not straightforward.

There are fewer frame updates. But, if the display is running at 90Hz, the frames will still scan out at that high refresh speed. So, after an updated frame is ready on the GPU, you'll see it on the screen ~11ms after the GPU has the frame prepared, instead of the ~25ms you would normally expect from 40Hz.

So, you'll have fewer updates and less feedback from the game, but you will see the frame updates more quickly than you might expect.

[Steven]

I mean for STGs, Sonic Mania, etc.: stuff that isn't capable of either 90FPS because it wasn't programmed to support anything higher than 60FPS or of pushing the Steam Deck anywhere near far enough to lower the framerate, and doing so for Sonic Mania causes the game to run in slow motion anyway. I also have stuff like Arcana Heart 3, in which the game logic is dictated by the framerate, so anything above 60FPS causes the game to run way too fast.

Obviously allow tearing gets turned on, and even with it on I still never see tearing, even on games like Raiden III x Mikado and Mushihimesama, both of which are notorious for screen tearing. The problem is the frame limiter, which itself supposedly causes input lag, combined with the native 90Hz refresh rate, which, with the frame limiter disabled, will give you uneven frame pacing in games that can't do 90FPS like Sonic Mania, so I'm not really sure what to do with this thing anymore.

[vol.2]

did you try going to 40? That seems to solve the issue for a lot of people.

[Steven]

Uh

why would I use 40FPS? That's for battery life and also for the old Steam Deck, not the new one. It's also going to make lag worse, not better, and it's also going to break the games that I want to play that require 60FPS.

[ajdesmarais]

Does anyone know, off the top of their head, which set of parameters in a PVM service menu are to adjust the COMPONENT video geometry? I swear I tried them all and none of them worked. I just need to shift the screen to the left like two centimeters, lol.

[Kez]

I mean for STGs, Sonic Mania, etc.: stuff that isn't capable of either 90FPS because it wasn't programmed to support anything higher than 60FPS or of pushing the Steam Deck anywhere near far enough to lower the framerate, and doing so for Sonic Mania causes the game to run in slow motion anyway. I also have stuff like Arcana Heart 3, in which the game logic is dictated by the framerate, so anything above 60FPS causes the game to run way too fast.

Obviously allow tearing gets turned on, and even with it on I still never see tearing, even on games like Raiden III x Mikado and Mushihimesama, both of which are notorious for screen tearing. The problem is the frame limiter, which itself supposedly causes input lag, combined with the native 90Hz refresh rate, which, with the frame limiter disabled, will give you uneven frame pacing in games that can't do 90FPS like Sonic Mania, so I'm not really sure what to do with this thing anymore.

Check the advanced display settings, there is an option to unify frame limiter and refresh rate. Try turning that off and you should be able to set the refresh rate to 60 with no frame limiter and allow tearing.

[Steven]

I mean for STGs, Sonic Mania, etc.: stuff that isn't capable of either 90FPS because it wasn't programmed to support anything higher than 60FPS or of pushing the Steam Deck anywhere near far enough to lower the framerate, and doing so for Sonic Mania causes the game to run in slow motion anyway. I also have stuff like Arcana Heart 3, in which the game logic is dictated by the framerate, so anything above 60FPS causes the game to run way too fast.

Obviously allow tearing gets turned on, and even with it on I still never see tearing, even on games like Raiden III x Mikado and Mushihimesama, both of which are notorious for screen tearing. The problem is the frame limiter, which itself supposedly causes input lag, combined with the native 90Hz refresh rate, which, with the frame limiter disabled, will give you uneven frame pacing in games that can't do 90FPS like Sonic Mania, so I'm not really sure what to do with this thing anymore.

Check the advanced display settings, there is an option to unify frame limiter and refresh rate. Try turning that off and you should be able to set the refresh rate to 60 with no frame limiter and allow tearing.

I don't have a way to check input lag, so I have no way of telling if it actually makes a difference or not.

I tried it and it's not possible to have 60Hz with unlimited framerate. It forces you to set a framerate limit. I'm using the preview build, so I'll switch to stable and see if it changes anything.

This is interesting. It lets me have unlimited FPS with a 60Hz refresh rate on stable but not on preview. I'm changing back to preview to see if I just didn't do it right on preview somehow.

Well now it's letting me do it on preview. I can't tell if there is any difference between unlimited FPS and having a 60FPS limit, though, just like how I can't tell a difference between 2 and 6 frames of lag at 60FPS normally even when comparing them side-by-side. Hopefully someone can lag test this thing properly.

[vol.2]

Does the PS2 component video produce "noisier" video output or "softer" video output than the RGB?

I seem to remember there was someone who looked at the component output on a scope and found it to be a little "fuzzier" or something, accounting for what people had been anecdotally telling me for many years, but I can't recall exactly who or where.

If this is real, it was probably one of the hardware guys here, or possibly Mike Chi or Citrus 3000psi or something....

[Steven]

My New Astro City's blue gain setting doesn't seem to be doing anything, and today when I was playing Kyuukyoku Tiger the screen suddenly became rather blue, as if the blue gain was turned up really high, and then it went back to the way it was. It did this a few times and then I switched to Hishouzame to see if it was the PCB and it's not doing it now.

Not sure what is going on here, but I'd appreciate any advice, ideas, or anything else. I'm going to put K Tiger back in to see what happens, but I have to go to work soon, so I won't be able to test stuff until I am back home.

[vol.2]

My New Astro City's blue gain setting doesn't seem to be doing anything

As in, you went into the cabinet and tried to adjust the RGB gain and bias controls, and everything worked as expected with the exception of the Blue gain which did absolutely nothing?

If this is what you mean, and you then saw some jankiness with the Blue, it's probably the fault of the pot. Those things go bad sometimes. It might just need a good cleaning, but I usually replace em with multiturn pots because it makes setting the color balance a lot easier

It's also possible that there's a dry solder joint somewhere or a loose connection and you're getting intermittent issues because of it

Less likely is there's a bad component somewhere causing it, like a transistor or IC that starts acting funny when it gets hot

If this isn't what you meant, please explain in greater detail

[Steven]

My New Astro City's blue gain setting doesn't seem to be doing anything

As in, you went into the cabinet and tried to adjust the RGB gain and bias controls, and everything worked as expected with the exception of the Blue gain which did absolutely nothing?

If this is what you mean, and you then saw some jankiness with the Blue, it's probably the fault of the pot. Those things go bad sometimes. It might just need a good cleaning, but I usually replace em with multiturn pots because it makes setting the color balance a lot easier

It's also possible that there's a dry solder joint somewhere or a loose connection and you're getting intermittent issues because of it

Less likely is there's a bad component somewhere causing it, like a transistor or IC that starts acting funny when it gets hot

If this isn't what you meant, please explain in greater detail

Yeah, this is correct. I never really cleaned out the inside of the cabinet when I got it, so maybe and hopefully it is just a dirty pot. I just played the entire first loop of Kyuukyoku Tiger and part of the second loop and had no problems, so it's probably not the game. Blue gain still doesn't work, but the others work okay. I've had no trouble with this cabinet until now, so hopefully I can fix it.

[vol.2]

Yeah, this is correct. I never really cleaned out the inside of the cabinet when I got it, so maybe and hopefully it is just a dirty pot. I just played the entire first loop of Kyuukyoku Tiger and part of the second loop and had no problems, so it's probably not the game. Blue gain still doesn't work, but the others work okay. I've had no trouble with this cabinet until now, so hopefully I can fix it.

Ok, one thing I'm still not totally clear about is what you mean by "the blue gain doesn't work;" do you mean the adjustment has no effect, or do you mean that there is no blue AT ALL in the image sometimes?

Either way, the more I think about it, the more it sounds like there is a cold solder joint or something like that. If the Blue gain pot was just dirty, you would still notice some kind of effect when you turn it. It should be scratchy and terrible, but there would be some kind of effect on the image

Also, how are you testing this? Are you adjusting it while it's turned on, or are you turning it off, making a small change, and then turning it back on again?

[Steven]

Yeah, this is correct. I never really cleaned out the inside of the cabinet when I got it, so maybe and hopefully it is just a dirty pot. I just played the entire first loop of Kyuukyoku Tiger and part of the second loop and had no problems, so it's probably not the game. Blue gain still doesn't work, but the others work okay. I've had no trouble with this cabinet until now, so hopefully I can fix it.

Ok, one thing I'm still not totally clear about is what you mean by "the blue gain doesn't work;" do you mean the adjustment has no effect, or do you mean that there is no blue AT ALL in the image sometimes?

The blue levels can't be adjusted.

Also, how are you testing this? Are you adjusting it while it's turned on, or are you turning it off, making a small change, and then turning it back on again?

Both, but I made a big change when it was off, not a small one. I spun that thing like 90 degrees in both directions with it both on and off and it didn't change anything. At this point I'm thinking that it probably needs to be resoldered.

[vol.2]

Both, but I made a big change when it was off, not a small one. I spun that thing like 90 degrees in both directions with it both on and off and it didn't change anything. At this point I'm thinking that it probably needs to be resoldered.

Probably. I would expect there to be some noticeable change when you move it, even if it's the wrong results. There's almost certainly a broken solder joint or a loose connection somewhere that's bypassing the effect of that pot. It wouldn't have to be the pot itself though, there could be something upstream or downstream from it in the circuit that's breaking the connection