for years, I´ve treated both as separate entities, always concentrated on pure, abstract gameplay, even tried to ignore graphics as much as possible. But recently, I´ve been finding more and more aspects where the two are closely related. Of course, on a fundamental level, there can be no game without graphics, you need to see something you can react to. But I´m talking about cases where graphic style influences gameplay:
- in Flying Shark. The whole game is slightly devoid of bright colors, giving it an almost realistic appearance. Bullets don´t contrast too well, so your eyes need to focus on "motion view" instead of "color view" (these are the 2 kinds of perception cells in a human eye). But then there are bomb icons on the ground, in a very bright tone of red, really standing out, almost forcing the eyes to switch to color perception again, thereby losing focus on bullets coming in from the far parts of the screen (color perception is suited to concentrate on a small area, motion perception is suited for peripheral vision). It´s a trap, and to deal with it you need to learn to ignore this shining red tones on the screen.
Now, imagine the same mechanic on an ABA style game, with black backgrounds and vector based enemies/bullets. It just doesn´t work.
- in Dodonpachi, there are spots where flowers will appear while you hove over them. The mechanic has been present in Batsugun, too, but what stands out in Dodonpachi is the animation quality of these flowers blooming up and decaying again. For such a seemingly unimportant background detail, it´s far too good. However, again it´s a trap: The player is supposed to be fascinated by the animation, forgetting about bullets for a second, maybe even keep the ship in place to keep flowers in bloom, drawing so many bullets to his ship while paralyzed by beauty that he can´t dodge them anymore after waking up.
- in Raiden Fighters I, there are houses in the background of one boss area. Before attacking the player, the boss will proceed to destroy these buildings. For self-defense, there is absolutely no need to bomb at this time. However, the player can bomb to protect the houses, as the explosion will nullify the bullets fired by the boss. This procedure is rewarded by a "Defended the house" bonus. From a pure gameplay perspective, this is just one of many scoring tricks. But on another level, the player can feel "heroic" about the act of sacrificing his last resort weapons for some innocent house inhabitants who just happen to live on a battlefield.
- in Dragon Blaze, you can pull silver and golden coins out of enemies, depending on how you kill them. Of course, golden coins are worth more, but they also stand out brighter than the silver coins, appealing to the player´s greed. This is a very often-occuring phenomenon: games will use gold icons to have the player associate real-world money, making him greedy, and punishing him when he falls for the trick and forgets about the dangers around him for a short while.
Shmups are full of these tiny details where you need to go against your instincts to become good. Thus, the whole criticism of "unintuitive" gameplay is misplaced. The adrenaline rush needs to be managed, you need to keep an inner calmness while navigating through bullet hell.
Another form of art that has been pursued at least since R-Type is trying to create ugly, disgusting enemies, motivating the player to try harder to kill them. A game full of this kind of enemies is Biohazard Battle. Sound effects are also used for the same effect. The cat boss in Guwange howls in an almost unbearable frequency.
Any other examples? I´ve just written a few things I´ve come across recently, but I´m pretty sure there is a lot more.
graphics, gameplay and psychology
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Herr Schatten
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You know what? I think this is a very interesting topic.
I always found the medals in Giga Wing so appealing that I constantly crashed into bullets while trying to get hold of them. Only when I learned how to ignore the ones I cannot get, I actually got somewhere in the game. Oddly enough, my medal chaining improved at the same time. Trizeal has a very similar system of medal chaining, but you never feel as compelled to grab them even though chaining medals in Trizeal is much less forgiving than in Giga Wing. I think this is because the medals are of a dull colour rather than being shiny. It makes it easier to just look at the (scoring-)technical aspect of the medals, because they don't trigger your greedy side.
Chaining coins/goldbars in Psikyo game works in much the same way.
Speaking of Trizeal, it shows another psychological aspect of shmups gameplay really well: the psychology of bullet patterns. The stage 5 boss has a bunch of yellow boomerang-shaped bullets hovering back and forth in front of him for a while before he finally unleashes them at the player. While hovering, the boomerangs pose no thread, but they build up suspense and tension, because you don't know the exact time when they will be released. This is obviously done only to pump more adrenalyn through your veins, so you are more likely to over-react (and die) when the actual attack occurs.
Think about this for a moment: lots of bullet patterns are designed to look more intimidating than they actually are. A truckload of bullets on screen are likely to freak you out, even if 90% of them aren't even aimed in your direction. I realized that when I talked with a guy at work while he watched me playing Strikers II. The dialogue went like this:
Him (sees random boss pattern): "Wha? That must be hundreds of bullets. How am I supposed to dodge all that stuff?"
Me: "You aren't."
"Explain!"
"Well, could you avoid a single bullet?"
"Sure."
"Then avoid just the one that will hit you."
Of course I oversimplified things, but when I said that it occured to me that there's actually some truth to it. Most bullets on screen are usually never aimed even roughly in your direction, so why are they there? Psychology, obviously. And it works.
I always found the medals in Giga Wing so appealing that I constantly crashed into bullets while trying to get hold of them. Only when I learned how to ignore the ones I cannot get, I actually got somewhere in the game. Oddly enough, my medal chaining improved at the same time. Trizeal has a very similar system of medal chaining, but you never feel as compelled to grab them even though chaining medals in Trizeal is much less forgiving than in Giga Wing. I think this is because the medals are of a dull colour rather than being shiny. It makes it easier to just look at the (scoring-)technical aspect of the medals, because they don't trigger your greedy side.
Chaining coins/goldbars in Psikyo game works in much the same way.
Speaking of Trizeal, it shows another psychological aspect of shmups gameplay really well: the psychology of bullet patterns. The stage 5 boss has a bunch of yellow boomerang-shaped bullets hovering back and forth in front of him for a while before he finally unleashes them at the player. While hovering, the boomerangs pose no thread, but they build up suspense and tension, because you don't know the exact time when they will be released. This is obviously done only to pump more adrenalyn through your veins, so you are more likely to over-react (and die) when the actual attack occurs.
Think about this for a moment: lots of bullet patterns are designed to look more intimidating than they actually are. A truckload of bullets on screen are likely to freak you out, even if 90% of them aren't even aimed in your direction. I realized that when I talked with a guy at work while he watched me playing Strikers II. The dialogue went like this:
Him (sees random boss pattern): "Wha? That must be hundreds of bullets. How am I supposed to dodge all that stuff?"
Me: "You aren't."
"Explain!"
"Well, could you avoid a single bullet?"
"Sure."
"Then avoid just the one that will hit you."
Of course I oversimplified things, but when I said that it occured to me that there's actually some truth to it. Most bullets on screen are usually never aimed even roughly in your direction, so why are they there? Psychology, obviously. And it works.
Y'know, that's the best explanation for why I suck that I ever heard.Him (sees random boss pattern): "Wha? That must be hundreds of bullets. How am I supposed to dodge all that stuff?"
Me: "You aren't."
"Explain!"
"Well, could you avoid a single bullet?"
"Sure."
"Then avoid just the one that will hit you."
Of course I oversimplified things, but when I said that it occured to me that there's actually some truth to it. Most bullets on screen are usually never aimed even roughly in your direction, so why are they there? Psychology, obviously. And it works.
I think 'paralyzed by beauty' is a bit much for such a minor detail. I like the subject of your topic, and certainly games do trigger psychological reactions, but in a case like this, I think maybe the artist just enjoyed pixeling the flowers and spent a little more time on animating them. Besides, in the first bit with flowers, there are hardly any bullets until the flowers have almost completely scrolled off (when the midboss comes out).- in Dodonpachi, there are spots where flowers will appear while you hove over them. The mechanic has been present in Batsugun, too, but what stands out in Dodonpachi is the animation quality of these flowers blooming up and decaying again. For such a seemingly unimportant background detail, it´s far too good. However, again it´s a trap: The player is supposed to be fascinated by the animation, forgetting about bullets for a second, maybe even keep the ship in place to keep flowers in bloom, drawing so many bullets to his ship while paralyzed by beauty that he can´t dodge them anymore after waking up.
All those bullets certainly have an important effect in the player's mind, but there are also other reasons for them being there. They add aesthetic appeal to the game, but more importantly, they help to eliminate safe spots, forcing you to actually negotiate them.Most bullets on screen are usually never aimed even roughly in your direction, so why are they there? Psychology, obviously. And it works.
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nullpointer
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ikaruga has to be the most obvious example of this,
if the design and coloration of the enemy was not as well exectued as it is, It would be impossible to play. Garegga is often criticized for its lack or bullet highlighting, somehting that was probably overdone in the sequel. RSG has the color chaining design again and DDP links the color of a bullet to its activity (i.e aimed or pattern fire etc). Rtype has always been about hr geiger and the landscape is far more important than in almost any other shmup (maybe thats why is scrolls so slow
Its not just the design of graphic elements but also their motion, In Shiki or Galuda, the gold objects are sucked into you in a really satisfying way, this makes you want to grind with the shiki or max out the kakeusi meter, the reward is visual as well as score based.
In ikaruga the homing missiles are similarly rewarding (especially when quick switching) and the black n white aspect never seems to get people complaining that the graphics are too dull.
good topic....
if the design and coloration of the enemy was not as well exectued as it is, It would be impossible to play. Garegga is often criticized for its lack or bullet highlighting, somehting that was probably overdone in the sequel. RSG has the color chaining design again and DDP links the color of a bullet to its activity (i.e aimed or pattern fire etc). Rtype has always been about hr geiger and the landscape is far more important than in almost any other shmup (maybe thats why is scrolls so slow
Its not just the design of graphic elements but also their motion, In Shiki or Galuda, the gold objects are sucked into you in a really satisfying way, this makes you want to grind with the shiki or max out the kakeusi meter, the reward is visual as well as score based.
In ikaruga the homing missiles are similarly rewarding (especially when quick switching) and the black n white aspect never seems to get people complaining that the graphics are too dull.
good topic....
Interestin topic. The psychology of bullets that Herr Schatten mentioned was driven home to me while I was getting frustrated with Esprade the other day. I thought to myself: These bullet patterns look insane, but if I look closely there's always a way out. The only reason I'm getting killed is because mentally I've already beaten myself, right?
Of course I still lost to the stage 4 boss, but I had gotten further and beaten more ass than I'd ever done before. It's all mental.
Another example of emotionally involving the player would be the first stage boss in Psyvariar: The Will To Fabricate. When the enemy appears, the first thing he does is fire a huge beam that destroys a settlement/base on the ground. Since I don't know the story I have no clue what it was, but I assume it was something important to the character and it made me want to destroy the boss even more. Even though gameplay is the most important part of a game, little touches that make the player care about the action is vital too. That's why even though ABA games are great, I can't get into them knowing that it'll be nothing but untextured polygons with no storyline or ending.
Of course I still lost to the stage 4 boss, but I had gotten further and beaten more ass than I'd ever done before. It's all mental.
Another example of emotionally involving the player would be the first stage boss in Psyvariar: The Will To Fabricate. When the enemy appears, the first thing he does is fire a huge beam that destroys a settlement/base on the ground. Since I don't know the story I have no clue what it was, but I assume it was something important to the character and it made me want to destroy the boss even more. Even though gameplay is the most important part of a game, little touches that make the player care about the action is vital too. That's why even though ABA games are great, I can't get into them knowing that it'll be nothing but untextured polygons with no storyline or ending.
destroy the god of war in Forgotten Worlds. Awesome.
(I'm talking about the big guy who screams end exploded forever!)
I am INTO the easthetic elements of form in shmups (the parts that effect you on a phycological level) to the point that I believe succesfull use of the elements of form are really what make good shmups. (rather than the subject matter, and even infringing on how good the gameplay is).
Trying to think of a shmup that is a little weak in the easthetic form department....... every shmup I've played could have had a boss that screamed more when it died. -or a bigger explosion for that matter.
(I'm talking about the big guy who screams end exploded forever!)
I am INTO the easthetic elements of form in shmups (the parts that effect you on a phycological level) to the point that I believe succesfull use of the elements of form are really what make good shmups. (rather than the subject matter, and even infringing on how good the gameplay is).
Trying to think of a shmup that is a little weak in the easthetic form department....... every shmup I've played could have had a boss that screamed more when it died. -or a bigger explosion for that matter.
Well the whole thing you just discussed with the power-up's and stuff is what a lot of old school gamers call "greed". Basicly you want a higher score, and basicly you will do anything to obtain this score. Now the best bit of "greed gaming" there is are collectables, medals for example now you see a medal floating amounst a huge train of bullets what do you do?...
Shmups are not the only games, that have this, old platforming games with fruit style power-ups and other shooting games like roboton with the "humans" and the "must-save-human!!" feeling every time you see one even though the human is surronded by 20 or so robots.
Shmups are not the only games, that have this, old platforming games with fruit style power-ups and other shooting games like roboton with the "humans" and the "must-save-human!!" feeling every time you see one even though the human is surronded by 20 or so robots.
eh, on a simmilar note, i just noticed something on strikers 45 II last boss first form.
he has 3 patterns, if taken separately, they are all very easy, so i just couldnt figure why i had so much trouble dealing with something that seems so simple.
the answer is simple really, first he does his spread shot thing, which is very fast and requires you to focus on the screen as a whole, not that hard but immediately afterwards he shots some patterned slow orange bullets that cross each other, where you need to find a tiny gap to navigate trough. doing this requires your attention to be on a small part of the bottom of the screen.
as those orange bullets are leaving, he goes immediately into another fast pattern with big bullets, it isnt hard, but as your eyes are focused on the bottom of the screen at that moment, it can be hard seeing where you need to go for the big bullet pattern.
that might be one of the differences between us random players andd japanese superplay gods, capabillity of switching perception fast.
on DDP, and especially DOJ, i find funny how bullets are either of a "warm" color (pink) or "cold" (blue)
he has 3 patterns, if taken separately, they are all very easy, so i just couldnt figure why i had so much trouble dealing with something that seems so simple.
the answer is simple really, first he does his spread shot thing, which is very fast and requires you to focus on the screen as a whole, not that hard but immediately afterwards he shots some patterned slow orange bullets that cross each other, where you need to find a tiny gap to navigate trough. doing this requires your attention to be on a small part of the bottom of the screen.
as those orange bullets are leaving, he goes immediately into another fast pattern with big bullets, it isnt hard, but as your eyes are focused on the bottom of the screen at that moment, it can be hard seeing where you need to go for the big bullet pattern.
that might be one of the differences between us random players andd japanese superplay gods, capabillity of switching perception fast.
on DDP, and especially DOJ, i find funny how bullets are either of a "warm" color (pink) or "cold" (blue)
I think hovering nearby makes the flowers come out, but shooting a laser over them is what gives you points. I could be wrong...
I happen to suffer from a Wario syndrome also... my greed for shiny treasures often causes me to rush head-on into clouds of bullets...
I'll try to collect Energy refills in ESP RaDe when my bomb meter is already full, even...
I happen to suffer from a Wario syndrome also... my greed for shiny treasures often causes me to rush head-on into clouds of bullets...
I'll try to collect Energy refills in ESP RaDe when my bomb meter is already full, even...
3 new details found:
- in games like Raiden 2/DX, the tanks get partially obscured by tree shadows.
- several games feature tanks that have to aim their turrets at the player ship before shooting. So the turret orientation betrays when they will shoot.
- enemy damage like flames, red flashing or other methods show when an enemy will go down. This is important when enemy death timing is important for gameplay, when deaths trigger certain effects.
- in games like Raiden 2/DX, the tanks get partially obscured by tree shadows.
- several games feature tanks that have to aim their turrets at the player ship before shooting. So the turret orientation betrays when they will shoot.
- enemy damage like flames, red flashing or other methods show when an enemy will go down. This is important when enemy death timing is important for gameplay, when deaths trigger certain effects.
Re: graphics, gameplay and psychology
There's a variation on the above that can be seen in some modern shooters, but the best example of it is in Imperishable Night and the other shrine maiden games. Rather than have some beautiful background animation or feature, the player is distracted from the bullets by the bullet patterns themselves. Huge elaborate colourful patterns that you do end up staring at, instead of concentrating on which represent a threat.raiden wrote: - in Dodonpachi, there are spots where flowers will appear while you hove over them. The mechanic has been present in Batsugun, too, but what stands out in Dodonpachi is the animation quality of these flowers blooming up and decaying again. For such a seemingly unimportant background detail, it´s far too good. However, again it´s a trap: The player is supposed to be fascinated by the animation, forgetting about bullets for a second, maybe even keep the ship in place to keep flowers in bloom, drawing so many bullets to his ship while paralyzed by beauty that he can´t dodge them anymore after waking up.
For anyone unfamiliar - my review of this game (with screens, larger than they appear so view image to see them full size):
http://www.system11.org/temp/shmups/imp ... index.html
It was supposed to be up on the main shmups site reviews section by now, but with Malcs continued absence, it's still in my temporary area.
Great topic by the way!
System11's random blog, with things - and stuff!
http://blog.system11.org
http://blog.system11.org
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Diabollokus
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This may not count but I 1cced it last night so I'll mention it 
Fireshark the Sharks in the sea levels! they do stuff, one sees a guy near the shore and makes a break for him, another is caught by the little green guys falls into the water and swims off.
Also the little green guys marching one breaks out of formation the leader walks down sends him back and they go again!
They are visually distracting but add to the character of the game just minor details but they are so memorable.
Fireshark the Sharks in the sea levels! they do stuff, one sees a guy near the shore and makes a break for him, another is caught by the little green guys falls into the water and swims off.
Also the little green guys marching one breaks out of formation the leader walks down sends him back and they go again!
They are visually distracting but add to the character of the game just minor details but they are so memorable.
Vidi Vici Veni
Batrider:
Bazzcok (laser plane in Batrider): It has a laser turret that doesn't kill you right away when the laser starts to shoot. This seems to make you act recklessly toward other laser turrets in the game, which shoot similar beams, but always kill you right away the moment the beam becomes visible.
All midboss situations that have one small target and just a few ground turrets: These seem puny compared to the bosses. You scoff at the size and the paltry bullet spray, and suddenly an array of guns pops up and fire a super fast pattern. You die with 4+ bombs in stock...
The latter also applies to Gunbird2 and all Sengoku Ace games.
Bazzcok (laser plane in Batrider): It has a laser turret that doesn't kill you right away when the laser starts to shoot. This seems to make you act recklessly toward other laser turrets in the game, which shoot similar beams, but always kill you right away the moment the beam becomes visible.
All midboss situations that have one small target and just a few ground turrets: These seem puny compared to the bosses. You scoff at the size and the paltry bullet spray, and suddenly an array of guns pops up and fire a super fast pattern. You die with 4+ bombs in stock...
The latter also applies to Gunbird2 and all Sengoku Ace games.
This causes to me a sensation of badness. - Stormwatch
I call these patterns "design faults". It should never be the case that you can't react to a situation as it emerges, but a few games (Gunbird 2 being an excellent example) will happily slam you with insta-spread bullet death. You have to know they're coming, you can't react to some of them.TGK wrote: All midboss situations that have one small target and just a few ground turrets: These seem puny compared to the bosses. You scoff at the size and the paltry bullet spray, and suddenly an array of guns pops up and fire a super fast pattern. You die with 4+ bombs in stock...
The latter also applies to Gunbird2 and all Sengoku Ace games.
System11's random blog, with things - and stuff!
http://blog.system11.org
http://blog.system11.org
or direction from above. "You must make sure they die at this spot, and the whole game takes 8 credits to complete" - Some Random Producer Guybloodflowers wrote:I call these patterns "design faults". It should never be the case that you can't react to a situation as it emerges, but a few games (Gunbird 2 being an excellent example) will happily slam you with insta-spread bullet death. You have to know they're coming, you can't react to some of them.TGK wrote: All midboss situations that have one small target and just a few ground turrets: These seem puny compared to the bosses. You scoff at the size and the paltry bullet spray, and suddenly an array of guns pops up and fire a super fast pattern. You die with 4+ bombs in stock...
The latter also applies to Gunbird2 and all Sengoku Ace games.
This causes to me a sensation of badness. - Stormwatch
You can beat GB2 on the second try?! You, sir, are a veritable shmup god.Rob wrote:You mean you have to play the game (all 15 minutes) more than once before beating it? Psikyo, you expect too much of us! I just haven't the time.bloodflowers wrote:You have to know they're coming, you can't react to some of them.
This causes to me a sensation of badness. - Stormwatch
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TWITCHDOCTOR
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The Strikers 1945/Gunbird games are really good at this type of distraction, as the player must "time" himself when flying over the medals as when they flash, they are worth more points.
Also, if I can allow myself to play DoDonPachi without caring about Bee Collecting", I'll perform much better. When grabbing gold/bonus items you tend to forget about those nasty bullets for a split second...which is usually enough to kill, or at least alter your patterns.
Also, if I can allow myself to play DoDonPachi without caring about Bee Collecting", I'll perform much better. When grabbing gold/bonus items you tend to forget about those nasty bullets for a split second...which is usually enough to kill, or at least alter your patterns.
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The Bullet Dodger
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TWITCHDOCTOR wrote:Also, if I can allow myself to play DoDonPachi without caring about Bee Collecting", I'll perform much better. When grabbing gold/bonus items you tend to forget about those nasty bullets for a split second...which is usually enough to kill, or at least alter your patterns.
So very true. You've described my #1 'DDP' weakness 100% accurately.
But when it comes to graphics, gameplay and psychology, 'Ikaruga' takes the cake. Nuff said.
that´s not "nuff said" because this thread is concerned with finding conrete examples and describing them, not with giving awards or something like that. I was wondering whether I should´ve posted it in the development section because that´s where the primary benefit lies, but of course gathering examples is something not bound to developers at all. But please keep it spam-free.But when it comes to graphics, gameplay and psychology, 'Ikaruga' takes the cake. Nuff said.
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TWITCHDOCTOR
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raiden wrote:that´s not "nuff said" because this thread is concerned with finding conrete examples and describing them, not with giving awards or something like that. I was wondering whether I should´ve posted it in the development section because that´s where the primary benefit lies, but of course gathering examples is something not bound to developers at all. But please keep it spam-free.But when it comes to graphics, gameplay and psychology, 'Ikaruga' takes the cake. Nuff said.
Raiden, you posted this in the "right section"...The guy should feel free to chime in as he feels he should.
I understand your topic, and I feel as though I have mentioned some good points, but lets not make it seem as though its some "elite only" type topic.