Following up on moozooh's thread about controllers and handedness, I was wondering if anyone had ever looked into the various ways to hold a stick... there seems to be a fairly wide variation in hand positioning from what I've seen in videos and arcades, and I'm curious to see if there's a "best" way to get precise movement.
I'm not terribly happy with my own technique for micrododging, but it's hard to tell if it's just lack of experience or I'm using a suboptimal position... mine is pretty different from someone like MON as seen here, for the sake of comparison. Any thoughts? Thanks
The MON style seems pretty good except that it seems to be putting too much stress on your wrist - unnaturally turned around - and also you probably need a bit more force than usual to move the stick since your leverage is notably decreased the further you go from the top of the stick, which could tire you more quickly than usual. Of course, being at the end of a long shaft maybe means you need a bit more of a lead on movement than you would get if you had to move it less, and trying to move the top of the ball head over as quickly could also lead you to shoving it around too quickly, again becoming tired.
For myself, the Seimitsu stick in the homebrew stick I bought feels pretty responsive and quick so I feel fine grabbing it along the balltop. If that was too slow I would simply get another stick. I would consider forking the shaft between two fingers, but that thin shaft rubbing the webbing and knuckles couldn't feel too good in a long play. On top of that, you still would have to have an odd grip to make sure it didn't slip vertically from your grap, I think.
God, I wanted to slap down so many innuendos in this thread. Oh well, there's always next time. Same Bat-Channel! *batmobile launch noise*
Somebody post a link to that youtube video some dude from Shoryuken made detailing the different ways to grab the stick. It's exceptionally amusing, especially the names.
edit: couldn#t find the video, but here are a couple of threads that will be interesting for the op:
Last edited by ChurchOfSolipsism on Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
BIL wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:01 pm
Imagine a spilled cup of coffee totalling your dick and balls in one shot, sounds like the setup to a Death Wish sequel.
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:Somebody post a link to that youtube video some dude from Shoryuken made detailing the different ways to grab the stick. It's exceptionally amusing, especially the names.
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:Somebody post a link to that youtube video some dude from Shoryuken made detailing the different ways to grab the stick. It's exceptionally amusing, especially the names.
THE GRIP OF DOOOOM
hahaha yeah. well I'm not sure if this is it, but I don't have sound right now:
BIL wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:01 pm
Imagine a spilled cup of coffee totalling your dick and balls in one shot, sounds like the setup to a Death Wish sequel.
I rest my hand and grip the stick with my thumb, index and middle fingers, with the ring and pinky rested in front of the shaft. With this grip I have flexibility with what I want to do, specifically for tap-dodging, I will use my index to tap from the left, my thumb from the right OR thumb and index. For the down-right diaganol I'll push with my index and middle, down-left I pull with the 3 fingers. With this style I probably have the most trouble doing tap-dodge movements towards the upper right but you don't really need to do tap-dodge movements in a diaganol direction often so it's moot. I think it's a great style only because my hand is resting most of the time.
For fighting games I will bring my palm a bit closer to hovering over the ball so I can execute motions towards left easier, but still stick to the 3 finger method.
STG Weekly!, 1cc's, twitch, XBL: DJ Aquazition The in-game papers prove that being the paperboy is actually a position of the greatest importance,
ranking alongside top elected officials for notoriety. -Ed Oscuro
Loose wine glass grip for me. I rest my hand firmly on my panel, and insert the shaft between my ring and middle finger, but the only digits touching the ball is my thumb and index finger. This way, my hand rests the whole time, and the only movement used are the flexing of these two. For tap dodging, i mostly just push the ball slightly with my thumb.
Back in the early 1990s, I used to play a sped-up version of Ms. Pac-Man at the local Regency Game Palace arcade hangout. With it's traditional 4-way ball-topped joystick layout, if gripped too tightly, would result in skin blisters (trying to whip the joystick to it's new position while going super fast). So the next time I played on it, I remembered to bring a Band-Aid and placed it on my affected finger and volia, no more blisters. Of course, if you loosely grip such an arcade stick, then the occurence of such maladies such as "arcade joystick blisters" are a thing of the past.
I mostly use just my index finger at 11 O'clock and thumb at 5 O'clock right in the mid section of the balltop. I honestly don't understand how people play with wine grip, when I try it seems impossible to move up quickly.
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
Quoting myself from 'tube:
I think the way I hold it should be called THE SHOCKER, since it's more or less a cross between the Monkey and the Eagle grip. Magic Fourth Finger down, knuckle more or less free to come into contact with the shaft of a balltop, with the middle and pointy fingers around the ball and the thumb on top.
Also, what I said in my first post is a load of crap, actually many styles seem pretty comfortable, possibly even wineglass (though that one feels like it would be trouble after a while, same reason given before).
One time I tried the wine grip (normally play with a grip like Aquas described) and had a total fluke 1CC in EspgaludaII with a pretty nice ~300m score before endgame bonus (FUCK YOU RESTARTING ONCE AND CONSEQUENTLY NOT COUNTING ENDGAME BONUS OR INPUTTING INITIALS). Thinking I had come across enlightenment in stick handling technique, I could not recreate results nearly as good as that with "wine style" hence it being a fluke, but still, trying something different once in a while can produce surprising results.
I always thought the wine grip was the less common way of holding it but judging from this thread it seems pretty even.
EPS21 wrote:trying something different once in a while can produce surprising results.
QFT. This is also why switching from LS-32 to LS-56 or even a JLF can improve your game. You will find that you're more alert than you are in your "comfort zone".
I grab the ball with just my thumb and index finger, thumb at like 5oclock and index at 11ish, but I also kind of press the top of my middle finger under the ball top where it meets the shaft. The side of my hand then rests on the edge of the CP. I have a visible callus on my middle finger from holding like this for so many years. I still occasionally get a blister on it if I haven't been playing much lately.
I sometimes switch and use thumb, index and middle finger holding the ball-top as others have described, but I find I react faster and more accurately with my technique.
I think it all really comes down to what you are comfortable with. Although I agree, the wine-glass style seems very hard to control with any precision and speed; for me at least.
Interesting. Definitely will have to experiment with some of these grip styles. Started using a joystick only about a month ago, and I just did what felt natural.
First, I rotate my joystick about 30 degrees counter clockwise, so that my left hand can rest at the joystick at less of an angle.
I grip the ball-top somewhat in the manner of holding a pencil, with thumb, index and middle finger.
Index finger at 2 o'clock and thumb is at 5. With these two I touch the ball at the center of the fingerprint. Middle finger rests at 10; touching with the side of the middle part of the finger.
This post has got me thinking that perhaps I underestimated the importance of grip. I am starting to become aware that my own grip might be ineffective for rightward movements and maybe upward movement as well. I welcome any suggestions. I'll have to practice at least a little with the wine glass grip. Theoretically it does make sense, but doesn't seem to work when sitting down to a joystick that's on top of a desk.
Last edited by borislaw on Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
'twas in times of old / as eagles screamed // and holy streams flowed / from the Heaven-Fells
jonny5 wrote:Seems like my grip is a little different.
I grab the ball with just my thumb and index finger, thumb at like 5oclock and index at 11ish, but I also kind of press the top of my middle finger under the ball top where it meets the shaft. The side of my hand then rests on the edge of the CP. I have a visible callus on my middle finger from holding like this for so many years. I still occasionally get a blister on it if I haven't been playing much lately.
I sometimes switch and use thumb, index and middle finger holding the ball-top as others have described, but I find I react faster and more accurately with my technique.
I think it all really comes down to what you are comfortable with. Although I agree, the wine-glass style seems very hard to control with any precision and speed; for me at least.
My technique is about the same as yours it appears.
Unless I am playing my NGH console, then I grip it like this:
I use the Daigo grip (named after Daigo Umehara, of course) which has the shaft between pinky and ring fingers and the other two fingers and thumb wrapped around the ball in a loose fist -- it's designed for fighting games (obviously) but I've found that with some practice it works well for pretty much everything. Honestly, though, I don't think it matters all that much how you hold the stick; the precision movement you're looking for comes from practice and familiarity, not from magical hand jives.
Just off the top of my head its better to hold it with your wrist not resting or lying flat. Think of it like typing on a keyboard with wrists held high. Gives more precision to the movements.
I am curious about how people have their joystick placed relative to their bodies.
For instance, do you place the joystick directly on your lap? Or do you have it resting on top of a desk? How many people play while standing? (etc.)
'twas in times of old / as eagles screamed // and holy streams flowed / from the Heaven-Fells
At first I needed to play on a desk surface of some type that was in front of me. I use a TV-tray for the shmupping on my TV, and my computer desk for MAME and stuff. I also played with the stick on my lap as I'd play street fighter on my friend's couch. The cushions sunk in a bunch so my knees were elevated which felt not too bad. After a few years of using stick, I more or less feel comfortable in any of these positions. Lap, desk, chair, floor etc. I do prefer a desk or a surface I can put my knees under and have the stick rested on, though.
STG Weekly!, 1cc's, twitch, XBL: DJ Aquazition The in-game papers prove that being the paperboy is actually a position of the greatest importance,
ranking alongside top elected officials for notoriety. -Ed Oscuro
| My games - http://www.emphatic.se
