RGB Scart on an AV Famicom?

[Skykid]

Is this not possible? Probably elementary stuff, but I guessed my official Japanese RGB scart cable I use on my Super Famicom would work on my AV Famicom - but running it through the XRGB-2 or directly to the TV I only get sound and not image?
I even tried S-Video, but it's the same, sound but no image.

I thought the AV Famicom was Scart compatible, guess that's not the case?

AV only, why the fuss!

Sorry for the silly question, just looking for clarification.

[Arasoi]

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[Skykid]

It doesnt work because the RGB pins aren't wired on the internal connector.

The PPU on a stock NES/Famicom only has composite video out. To get RGB output you have to replace the PPU with one from a Playchoice arcade motherboard, or a VS Duck Hunt or Tennis rom set. Once this is done composite video is gone of course. (the pin carrying it carries sync on an RGB PPU).

The exceptions to this are the Sharp Famicom titler which has an RGB PPU stock, and encodes the RGB internally to composite, and certain TVs with an NES/Famicom built in.

It should be noted that RGB on NES/Famicom isn't a cut and dry affair like on other consoles. Games are often designed with the composite PPU in mind, utilizing color emphasis bits for R/G/B which the RGB PPU doesn't support. This can create compatibility issues with some games ranging from blacks being a bright white (or opposite) or just a bright white screen and an unplayable game. Just Breed, Paperboy, Magician, Totally Rad, are a few examples of games that have issues. The color "palette" using the RGB PPU is a tad different as well, though I personally think the differences are minimal.

Wow, that's interesting stuff. I appreciate the help and the info.
So the AV Famicom has no real benefit above the original except a dinky new design - the picture quality was never improved?
Sounds like a fairly tough haul to have the system modified for RGB, especially needing specific PCB's to then plunder. I suppose I'm stuck with regular composite for the time being - looks like shit, even with some tweaking on the XRGB-2+

[Ganelon]

The picture quality was definitely improved on the AV Famicom. The original Famicom and new NES were both RF-only. The original NES had RF and composite but that's balanced out by cart slot inadequacies.

[Arasoi]

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[Skykid]

Thanks guys. I didn't realise the original Famicom was RF only, I only ever had a NES and this current AV Famicom.
Arasoi, just for future reference in the event I find someone who can RGB mod the system, do you have a list of games with compatibility issues?
Also, is the mod completely internal (doesn't require any case cutting etc?)

Many thanks!

[Rupert H]

I've been interested in picking up one of these for a while but there seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around. Am I right in saying that the AV Famicom is not region free but the NES 2 (the US equivalent) is region free?

[ZOM]

^^
-The US NES-101 is the only NES revision with the 10NES chip removed, but the downside is that it doesn't have composite out from the get go - needs a mod and an amp.
-The PAL NES-101, AFAIK, does indeed still have a 10NES chip, on the upside there's composite video out on this one.
-The HVC-101, like it's predecessor doesn't have a lockout chip(10NES is a product of NOA) and also carries composite out. Some models through RCA, others use the super famicom Multi AV out connector.(hence AV Famicom)

keep in mind that the amounts of pins still varies, and timing-sensitive games can either show glitches or freeze directly after bootup, if played on a different timing(50 instead of 60Hz & vice versa).

[Arasoi]

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[Rupert H]

So there really is no such thing as an 100% compatible Famicom that will play everything, glitch-free out of the box?

What's the best solution? AV Famicom plus bridge adapter? Even then 50htz games won't play properly. I guess I'll just have to keep hold of the old grey box.

[Ganelon]

Right, there is no single solution that works perfectly for all NES/Famicom games. You'll have graphical, sound, and/or compatibility drawbacks with every approach.

[Arasoi]

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[Rupert H]

Fascinating stuff. Thanks for the breakdown guys.

[undamned]

And for those of you who want to follow an ongoing project thread on the subject:

http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1592.0

-ud