XRGB-mini Framemeister

[FBX]

I'm using the component cables into the D-Terminal. What are you using that would go into the SCART adapter?

PAL Gamecube RGB SCART -> Shinybow SB-3715 -> Framemeister/PVM

That would explain it then. I don't have access to RGB modded cables, nor PAL format to begin with. The fact of the matter remains though, that NTSC component output with GBI.ULL doesn't work on the Framemeister.

[AndehX]

I'm using the component cables into the D-Terminal. What are you using that would go into the SCART adapter?

PAL Gamecube RGB SCART -> Shinybow SB-3715 -> Framemeister/PVM

That would explain it then. I don't have access to RGB modded cables, nor PAL format to begin with. The fact of the matter remains though, that NTSC component output with GBI.ULL doesn't work on the Framemeister.

Ah thats fair enough then. Maybe grab a PAL Gamecube might be a good option?

[Guspaz]

Could it be that ULL with NTSC component is forcing 480p, while PAL RGB cables are 240p? If you do 240p over the NTSC component cables, does the framemeister like that?

[FBX]

Could it be that ULL with NTSC component is forcing 480p, while PAL RGB cables are 240p? If you do 240p over the NTSC component cables, does the framemeister like that?

If you check the previous posts in this thread, you'll see that I released profiles for 240p output via the GBI.LL software. It's the GBI.ULL that doesn't work with the NTSC Component to Framemeister.

[Guspaz]

ULL defaults to 480p when you plug in NTSC component cables (EDIT: Turns it it defaults to 240p or 480p based on the last setting you had in a retail GameCube game), so you're saying it works with 240p on LL, but does not work with 480p on ULL. That's changing two variables at the same time (LL -> ULL, and 240p -> 480p). In order to identify which of the two variables is causing the problem, it would be useful if somebody would try forcing ULL to 240p over component (if it's even possible, Bob hasn't had any luck yet) and seeing how that impacts the framemeister.

Since there are reports of ULL working on the framemeister with PAL 240p RGB, it seems worth investigating. GBI is choosing the resolution and framerate, and component/RGB are AFAIK identical between PAL/NTSC apart from resolution and framerate. So then the only difference left should be RGB vs component.

[xwizit]

ive been trying all weekend but no matter what i do i just cant get even/nice/authentic looking scanlines in 720p.

Ive tried FBX profiles for 1080p scanlines, and they are just too thin.

Are there any good profiles/settings out there? i can get them looking fairly good, but my problem is that they are uneven throughout. 2 even, perfect thickness, and then one thin, horrible looking line. thats how they flow from top to bottom for me.

Ive tried adjusting v width and they look even more uneven.

[austin532]

By 720p are you talking about the output of the Framemeister or the (I assume XBOX) game?

If you set the Framemeister to 720p then you can't use FBX's profiles as those are made for 1080p. You should get even scanlines though if you turn off Zoom. If you are playing a 720p game with the Framemeister set to 1080p then the scanlines will look too thin or won't appear at all if I remember correctly.

[xwizit]

By 720p are you talking about the output of the Framemeister or the (I assume XBOX) game?

If you set the Framemeister to 720p then you can't use FBX's profiles as those are made for 1080p. You should get even scanlines though if you turn off Zoom. If you are playing a 720p game with the Framemeister set to 1080p then the scanlines will look too thin or won't appear at all if I remember correctly.

yes, 720p output of the xrgb mini.

profiles from FBX+1080p=very thin scanlines (5x) or incredibly small image area (4x). If i try to increase the image area of a 4x profile, the top area that has been "zoomed in" loses scanlines.

So im asking if anyone has any good settings for :

240p games (snes, gen, etc) scaled up to xrgb 720p hdmi with EVEN, PERFECT scanlines, as mine look nice,nice-awful.

[NormalFish]

My experience is you shouldn't really need a specific profile for 720p. The minis presets work fine and should give you solid scanlines. If you're not happy with it at 720p you're doing something wrong or the mini isn't for you.

[xwizit]

My experience is you shouldn't really need a specific profile for 720p. The minis presets work fine and should give you solid scanlines. If you're not happy with it at 720p you're doing something wrong or the mini isn't for you.

Hi,

yes, i also figured this. Which is why i am unsure as to why i am getting 2, thick perfect scanlines followed by one scanline which is about 1/3 of the size of the thick ones. its EASILY noticeable. Especially on full colour backgrounds. Ive tried messing around with Int line settings aswell as just resetting and trying default settings and setting to 720p, but nothing makes the scanlines even. sigh.

[austin532]

Are you playing on a 1080p TV? If so are you in the 1:1 mode? What are your Image, Screen, and Visual settings?

[xwizit]

Are you playing on a 1080p TV? If so are you in the 1:1 mode? What are your Image, Screen, and Visual settings?

Hello,

Thank you for your help. I am playing on a Pioneer 1080p Plasma. I have "dot by dot" mode (no overscan) and "full" (5% overscan) as my main options (i assume that "full" is the same as - 1 display area)

Image/screen/visual settings are all on default (when i try to use the 720p output mode)

In 1080p output mode, i use FBX profiles.

[Shining]

Do they look something like this in 720p?

[xwizit]

no

closer to this

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... amemeister

but not exactly. but definitely closer. like, 2 lines look gorgeous, then the third line is about 1/3 of the thickness. the spacing of the lines looks like its accurate, but every third line looks horrible

[austin532]

How do the scanlines look in 1080p mode when using a 240p profile like SNES? Is the Framemeister hooked directly to the TV or is it going through another device first?

[xwizit]

hello, as previously mentioned (sorry if i dont make perfect sense) in 1080p output with 240p profiles:


4x=too small viewing area (even with "full" setting on tv) but BEAUTIFUL scanlines

5x=fits screen so well (top and bottom has small area missing but i dont mind) but horrible, thin scanlines (at least they are evenly spaced and same thickness though!)


console--->framemeister--->tv

[austin532]

Oh, there is your problem. As far as I know you can't get even scanlines in 5X. I don't understand why the scanlines are un-even on 720p though. I assume you tried these?

TV set to no overscan
Framemeister - 720p output
Image mode - Picture
Screen Set - Standard
Zoom - Off
V Line - 32

[Fudoh]

I don't understand why the scanlines are un-even on 720p though

If they're uneven and you have confirmed that the FM is using integer scanlines (INT setting available, DEC setting greyed out), then it's the display's fault.

[AndehX]

i'd just be happy with a 4x scale. You're running very old games on a modern LCD. There has to be a compromise somewhere.

[Xyga]

On recent MAME builds you can get integer scaling right at any factor, though not if something like bilinear is used along with it, and no prescale factor will help or maybe over a quite high resolution panel (here's no point in having integer if using prescale at the same time anyway).
I'm mentioning this because if filtering visibly breaks integer at x5, it is either harmless or imperceptible at x4.
Don't own a Mini but I though maybe similar scenarios are involved...

[xwizit]

Guys, I worked it out. For some reason, some of my consoles have been outputting at 720x241. I found a forum stating that upping v and h width by one would compensate for the extra 1 line of resolution. Now my 720p scanlines are all perfectly even!

[FBX]

hello, as previously mentioned (sorry if i dont make perfect sense) in 1080p output with 240p profiles:


4x=too small viewing area (even with "full" setting on tv) but BEAUTIFUL scanlines

5x=fits screen so well (top and bottom has small area missing but i dont mind) but horrible, thin scanlines (at least they are evenly spaced and same thickness though!)


console--->framemeister--->tv

That's exactly how it should be for 1080p on a 1080p display.

Using 720p output on a 1080p display loses about 15% sharpness due to the display having to interpolate the image to 1080p, and it may even introduce more lag because the display is having to do that.

[austin532]

Guys, I worked it out. For some reason, some of my consoles have been outputting at 720x241. I found a forum stating that upping v and h width by one would compensate for the extra 1 line of resolution. Now my 720p scanlines are all perfectly even!

720x241? Never heard of that one but glad you got it to work.

[TheShadowRunner]

Guys, I worked it out. For some reason, some of my consoles have been outputting at 720x241. I found a forum stating that upping v and h width by one would compensate for the extra 1 line of resolution. Now my 720p scanlines are all perfectly even! :D

720x241? Never heard of that one but glad you got it to work.

Yeah me neither, which system is it?

[amaradona]

the japanese neogeo is doing that.
you need to move the v-size to 33 IIRC.

[nissling]

Some modded consoles does as well. My previous PAL Sega Saturn outputted 241p when set to 60Hz.

[xwizit]

hello, as previously mentioned (sorry if i dont make perfect sense) in 1080p output with 240p profiles:


4x=too small viewing area (even with "full" setting on tv) but BEAUTIFUL scanlines

5x=fits screen so well (top and bottom has small area missing but i dont mind) but horrible, thin scanlines (at least they are evenly spaced and same thickness though!)


console--->framemeister--->tv

That's exactly how it should be for 1080p on a 1080p display.

Using 720p output on a 1080p display loses about 15% sharpness due to the display having to interpolate the image to 1080p, and it may even introduce more lag because the display is having to do that.

But the scanlines look so bad (imo) in 1080p x5 profiles, and x4 profiles leave me with 2 huge thick borders on the top and bottom. i feel like im wasting so much space on my tv.

Guys, I worked it out. For some reason, some of my consoles have been outputting at 720x241. I found a forum stating that upping v and h width by one would compensate for the extra 1 line of resolution. Now my 720p scanlines are all perfectly even!

720x241? Never heard of that one but glad you got it to work.

Yeah me neither, which system is it?

It was a modded PAL ps2 playing NTSC US ps1 games. every US game i tried, outputs in 241p. had to do the said adjustments and now all my scanlines are thick, even and nice in 720p mode

[FBX]

hello, as previously mentioned (sorry if i dont make perfect sense) in 1080p output with 240p profiles:


4x=too small viewing area (even with "full" setting on tv) but BEAUTIFUL scanlines

5x=fits screen so well (top and bottom has small area missing but i dont mind) but horrible, thin scanlines (at least they are evenly spaced and same thickness though!)


console--->framemeister--->tv

That's exactly how it should be for 1080p on a 1080p display.

Using 720p output on a 1080p display loses about 15% sharpness due to the display having to interpolate the image to 1080p, and it may even introduce more lag because the display is having to do that.

But the scanlines look so bad (imo) in 1080p x5 profiles, and x4 profiles leave me with 2 huge thick borders on the top and bottom. i feel like im wasting so much space on my tv.

That's the compromise for integer-scaling with razor sharp graphics. Remember that 240 doesn't evenly divide into 1080, so you're left with either thick borders or no borders but thin scanlines. Since I don't use scanlines, it's not an issue for me.

[Shuco13]

[Announcement] was published FRAMEMEISTER XRGB-mini CPU Ver2.03! Stabilization of the RGB input at the time of the color reproducibility improvement of output synchronization, and has increased the adjustment item at the time of the video · S video input. Download here.

source: google-translated from Micomsoftx' twitter account: https://twitter.com/MicomsoftX

Edit: OSD-table: http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/XRGB-mini_Ver203_OSD_E.pdf

[CkRtech]

Full list:

It includes changes such as OSD menu. Please check thorough the following contents before the update.
May 11, fixes 2016:
<CPU Ver.2.03>
■ it has been improved the reproducibility of the color at the time of RGB input.

■ it was to adjust the synchronization of HDMI output.

■ Added "video settings" on the main menu.
Function in the "Video Settings" is effective only to composite video and S-video.

■ Added "VIDEO_FORMAT" in the "Video Settings".
"VIDEO_FORMAT" is the ability to set the range to recognize automatically the type of video format.
STD: NTSC and PAL (B / G / I / H) to identify the method.
EXT: You can identify in addition to the above NTSC443, PAL (M / N / 60) method.
※ Due to the nature of each video format and game consoles, the left and up and down the line and the noise image on the screen may be displayed. If these symptoms are worrisome, please devise sorry to trouble you, but using the "input horizontal position" and "input vertical position" or other adjustments function perform the screen adjustment.

■ Added "PEDESTAL_LV (pedestal level)" to the "video settings" within.
"PEDESTAL_LV" is, for example, NTSC M (USA) and NTSC MJ as seen in the differences (such as Japan), is intended to change the black reference level (not the gamma function).
This feature is common, regardless of the format, such as NTSC / PAL.
OFF: to brighten the dark part. For example, video content and equipment of the Japanese specification (NTSC MJ), if you want to connect the TV is recommended OFF. However, because the dark areas brighter, there are times when the noise at the time of A / D conversion is noticeable on the screen.
ON: For example, USA specification video content and equipment, if you want to connect the TV to recommend ON.

■ Added "C_SHARP_LV" in the "Video Settings".
"C_SHARP_LV" is the ability to adjust the changes in the A / D converter of the chroma signal (color signal). By adjusting, you can show the boundary of color to Sharp.

■ Added "MANUAL_Y_FILTER" in the "Video Settings".
"MANUAL_Y_FILTER" is the ability to select the Y signal filter width of the A / D converter.
Because it depends on the video equipment of the signal ※, the image quality may vary depending on the equipment in the same setting.
AT1: is AutoFilter (broadband).
AT2: is AutoFilter (narrow band: standard).
MANUAL: Use the following settings: "FILTER_LEVEL".

■ Added "FILTER _LEVEL" to "video settings" within.
"FILTER_LEVEL" can be adjusted when the setting of "MANUAL_Y_FILTER" above is set to "MANUAL".
By manipulating the adjustment bar, you can adjust the Y signal filter width of the A / D converter in the manual. Because it depends on the video equipment of the signal, the image quality may vary depending on the equipment in the same setting.