Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

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CStarFlare
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by CStarFlare »

Reiker wrote:
Zaarock wrote:So, by skill based are you trying to say players are able to reach the same scores in score attack regardless of if they get suboptimal item drops (IE getting attack powerups very scarcely)?
Exactly.
Close. While it's probably technically possible to kill all enemies and avoid all hits based on skill alone, the game randomly hands out extra time/time extensions which do tip the scale. I believe time is worth 60,000/second in Time Stabilization bonuses or 100,000/second in end-stage bonuses if you're at rank A, so a single time/extend is worth between 300,000 and 500,000. (at least in Arcade mode, haven't really looked at Score Attack)

I'm not sure if coin drops are completely random or not - I seem to build my coin value more consistently than my arsenal - but if they are, they're worth at max 900,000 points each.

I figured the randomness was an attempt to dodge the memorizer label, but I feel there would have been better ways to do so without relegating a large part of the game's system to luck - a static drop order with a random starting point, or having enemies randomly drop items from a specific stock of items in a stage would have been a more balance way to shake things up. (though set item drops would be my preference) Randomizing item drops doesn't make the game more appealing to casual gamers - the story and production values did that just fine - if anything, it makes moving past the "these games are made to eat quarters" mentality even harder. A lucky run makes the rest all the more frustrating; the surprise factor you wanted can become the "fuck you" factor very quickly. It's like having a job where they randomly let other people use your desk for undetermined amounts of time but don't adjust your workload to compensate. At least something interesting happened to you today, right?

And it's not like the game doesn't require memorization anyway - if your shot strength is shit (it probably will be), knowing where enemies will spawn is very important to killing them in a timely fashion. I'm pretty sure some bosses can't be beaten if you focus on the wrong part first, and it's extremely unlikely that you'll dodge some attacks if you don't know they're coming. Not knowing what scenery will damage you will end your run very quickly.
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Kiken
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Kiken »

CStarFlare wrote:I'm not sure if coin drops are completely random or not - I seem to build my coin value more consistently than my arsenal - but if they are, they're worth at max 900,000 points each.
Coins are not randomly dropped. Every fifth enemy killed will drop a coin.
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Enemy
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Enemy »

can I just say the thought now of booting this up is depressing. I wanted to like it and tried to like it but .... I just dont like it. There, I said it :D
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Yeah, I don't like it either. I'm gonna delete it from my hard drive. I wish I hadn't spent money on it.

Well, maybe Mushi HD will make me feel better.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by psoslayer »

evil_ash_xero wrote:Well, maybe Mushi HD will make me feel better.
That's my my problem with Sine Mora as well, it's no horrible game but it makes some feel bad. Cave games make feel good.
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Necronom
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Necronom »

DR joins in where Cave dropped the ball...seems Sine Mora is heading to the PS3 and Vita after all. Nice.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sine-mor ... ps3/096508
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by BPzeBanshee »

The article wrote:Of course, these could be two entirely different games, but note that Sine Mora was initially planned for a PSN release before becoming an Xbox Live Arcade exclusive.
It's probably the new one that Reiker was trying to generate hype for in the other thread.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by AntiFritz »

Necronom wrote:DR joins in where Cave dropped the ball...seems Sine Mora is heading to the PS3 and Vita after all. Nice.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sine-mor ... ps3/096508
I can't see this being popular at all on either console...
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Kaiser
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Kaiser »

AntiFritz wrote:
Necronom wrote:DR joins in where Cave dropped the ball...seems Sine Mora is heading to the PS3 and Vita after all. Nice.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sine-mor ... ps3/096508
I can't see this being popular at all on either console...
Not to mention Soldner-X2 shits all over it in gameplay and music (Rafael Dyll FTW). Why bother getting Sine Mora when you can get that?
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Despatche
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Despatche »

comparing sine mora to every extend extra or even rez makes me physically ill
guigui wrote:I read "people who create shoot-them-up game for the first time dont do it as well as people who have been doing just this for the past 15 years".

Ok the game is kind of meeh but certain (too many) aspects, but lets admit this is a good shot for a first-timer. I am willing to pay for more.
tiger heli and slap fight are better games than sine mora

v-v, batsugun, and donpachi are all better games than sine mora
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Special World
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Special World »

Kaiser wrote:
AntiFritz wrote:
Necronom wrote:DR joins in where Cave dropped the ball...seems Sine Mora is heading to the PS3 and Vita after all. Nice.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sine-mor ... ps3/096508
I can't see this being popular at all on either console...
Not to mention Soldner-X2 shits all over it in gameplay and music (Rafael Dyll FTW). Why bother getting Sine Mora when you can get that?
I'm not huge on Sine Mora either, but Soldner X-2 is terrible, imo.
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CStarFlare
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by CStarFlare »

BPzeBanshee wrote:
The article wrote:Of course, these could be two entirely different games, but note that Sine Mora was initially planned for a PSN release before becoming an Xbox Live Arcade exclusive.
It's probably the new one that Reiker was trying to generate hype for in the other thread.
That was my first thought, but I don't think Reiker is with DR anymore?
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

AntiFritz wrote:
Necronom wrote:DR joins in where Cave dropped the ball...seems Sine Mora is heading to the PS3 and Vita after all. Nice.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sine-mor ... ps3/096508
I can't see this being popular at all on either console...
Sure it'll be popular. It'll have its 15 minutes of fame while review sites gush over the graphics, and gamers who haven't played the better games the time capsule mechanics are ripped off from praise it as 'unique' and 'innovative'.

Ugh.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by MR_Soren »

Necronom wrote:DR joins in where Cave dropped the ball...seems Sine Mora is heading to the PS3 and Vita after all. Nice.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sine-mor ... ps3/096508

Digital Reality has made a lot of games. I don't think people can assume this is Sine Mora.
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by BPzeBanshee »

CStarFlare wrote: That was my first thought, but I don't think Reiker is with DR anymore?
He said such in this thread but that was before he posted the Kickstarter thread so I'm guessing he got a new contract.
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Necronom
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Necronom »

MR_Soren wrote:
Necronom wrote:DR joins in where Cave dropped the ball...seems Sine Mora is heading to the PS3 and Vita after all. Nice.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sine-mor ... ps3/096508

Digital Reality has made a lot of games. I don't think people can assume this is Sine Mora.
Businesswise it makes perfect sense to port something that is already finished and was planned for PSN anyway. Especially on the Vita where competition is the form of other shmups is nearly nonexistent...Super Stardust being the only one.
With the announcement of Vita ports of Oddworld Stranger's Wrath and Jet Set Radio expect many others to follow...
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Necronom wrote:DR joins in where Cave dropped the ball...seems Sine Mora is heading to the PS3 and Vita after all. Nice.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sine-mor ... ps3/096508
By "the ball" do you mean "contributing to misplaced hype and resultant disappointments that hasten the death of the genre?"
Despatche wrote:
guigui wrote:I read "people who create shoot-them-up game for the first time dont do it as well as people who have been doing just this for the past 15 years".

Ok the game is kind of meeh but certain (too many) aspects, but lets admit this is a good shot for a first-timer. I am willing to pay for more.
tiger heli and slap fight are better games than sine mora

v-v, batsugun, and donpachi are all better games than sine mora
I blame mission creep. Back in the day all you had going was the gameplay, so it had better not suck (people still managed stinkers back then, of course).
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by TrevHead (TVR) »

So Sine Mora is getting ported to Sony's hardware. I hope its a success for DR as more ppl playing shmups is a good thing and helps pave the way for more shmups to follow.

On my end i'm kind hoping they'll make the time to patch the XBLA original and release the Sony versions as a revised version for those who want to start off with a clean leaderboard with no autofire scores in it.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Necronom »

@Ed Oscuro
"Hasten the Death of a genre"?
What a drama! :lol: Shmups aren't part of the mainstream anymore since the late 90s. While Sine Mora is certainly no second Einhänder it is one of those solid xbla releases (re)introducing people to the genre. Surely not a bad thing.
The good thing about the vita is that it basically marries the best from both worlds, i.e. portability and touch with proper stick controls. Cave had the chance to use this in order to come up with the ultimate portable danmaku on a platform that will gain momentum once prices fall and more games are announced. Dropping the ball here was - just like ignoring the western Android market - a poor business decision imho.
I'm looking forward to the vita release and hope that more shmup developers use this route of multi platform profitability in the future.
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bcass
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by bcass »

Given how unpopular the Vita is I'm not sure that porting anything to that platform makes good business sense.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by trap15 »

bcass wrote:Given how unpopular the Vita is I'm not sure that porting anything to that platform makes good business sense.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Necronom »

trap15 wrote:
bcass wrote:Given how unpopular the Vita is I'm not sure that porting anything to that platform makes good business sense.
Yup, 3DS used to be unpopular too...until the proper games arrived :wink:
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by bcass »

True, but the Vita doesn't have a saleable gimmick. Nobody wants it, not at any price. Sony have completely failed to understand the nature of the mobile/portable market. The idea that it's going to primarily play host to a bunch of PS3 hand me downs holds zero appeal for most sane people. The only remotely interesting element is the PlayStation Suite (Sony's answer to XBLIG) but that's still some way off (the open beta has only just launched). Sony are playing catch-up as usual.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Tokyo-J »

Read on Joystiq G.Rev has something to do with the the PSP Vita port.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Zaarock »

Hmm, interesting. Wouldn't mind G.Rev & digital reality working together on a new title either :)
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Jeneki »

http://www.gaming-age.com/2012/06/sine- ... vita-soon/
Exclusive to this new version is a guest character from Japanese cult studio G.rev, responsible for many shoot'em up classics like Border Down, Strania or Under Defeat. Vita owners will be able to select a new hero, Wilhelmine Muller, coming directly from the fantastic world of Under Defeat. Of course, the presence of Wilhelmine also means a brand new special weapon and new chronomes, available only on Vita!
Just a guest character, doesn't look like anything development related.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Tokyo-J »

This game kind of sucks.

Felt like Sodner X 3

Not feeling it at all.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by adversity1 »

If the game is patched, like massively, for the PS3/Vita releases, I would be down to try it again just for Wilhelmine. I would need to hear some strongly favorable impressions though.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by Tokyo-J »

What is up with the character designs? It is the Island of Dr. Moreau Shmup!
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

Post by ciox »

Jeneki wrote:http://www.gaming-age.com/2012/06/sine- ... vita-soon/
Exclusive to this new version is a guest character from Japanese cult studio G.rev, responsible for many shoot'em up classics like Border Down, Strania or Under Defeat. Vita owners will be able to select a new hero, Wilhelmine Muller, coming directly from the fantastic world of Under Defeat. Of course, the presence of Wilhelmine also means a brand new special weapon and new chronomes, available only on Vita!
Just a guest character, doesn't look like anything development related.
Platform-exclusive ships, sounds like redefining the genre alright.
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