Looking for opinions on current Panasonic TVs

[Daigohji]

The original master plan was that I wouldn't buy an HDTV until this year, as I guessed it would take until now for the features and quality I want to hit the price range I'm willing to pay. That was scuppered when my SD Panasonic Quintrix died in 2008 and I needed a replacement. I ended up buying the Panasonic 26LXD70, a quality 1366x768 TV that seemed a good compromise. I've never been a fan of compromise though, so now that I've got some money put aside I'm strongly considering an upgrade.

The TVs I've got on my short-list are all Panasonics, due to the disappointing input lag figures I've seen for other brands in recent reviews. I'm looking at either the LCD L37S20, L37G20 or plasma P42G20. Typical viewing distance will be 5-7 feet, so I don't know if 42" will be too big for SD content at that range. Would even 37" be pushing my luck? I'll be using it as my primary PC monitor too. I'd estimate the division of usage will be 30% gaming, 30% DVDs/Blu-ray, 30% PC, 10% broadcast TV.

I understand that plasmas offer better black levels and contrast ratios, but considering what I'll be using it for I'm worried about image retention and burn-in. I don't want to have to worry about whether I'll be stuck will lines across the screen if I spend too long watching cinemascope movies or content in 4:3 ratio. I'm also unclear on the arcane art of "breaking in" a plasma panel for the first 100-200 hours. I suppose an LCD would be the safe option, but then I'd have inferior SD and motion handling, and higher input lag. Speaking of lag, I've never been able to find out how high it is for my current LXD70, so I don't know it compares.

Some reviews glow about all these sets, while others are very critical, so I don't know what to make of it. I haven't viewed any of these TVs in store yet, but I'd like some opinions first. If no one's used any of these specifically, then I'd appreciate thoughts on what screen size would be best for my viewing distance or whether LCD or plasma is likely to be more suitable for my requirements.

[Zeron]

The original master plan was that I wouldn't buy an HDTV until this year, as I guessed it would take until now for the features and quality I want to hit the price range I'm willing to pay. That was scuppered when my SD Panasonic Quintrix died in 2008 and I needed a replacement. I ended up buying the Panasonic 26LXD70, a quality 1366x768 TV that seemed a good compromise. I've never been a fan of compromise though, so now that I've got some money put aside I'm strongly considering an upgrade.

The TVs I've got on my short-list are all Panasonics, due to the disappointing input lag figures I've seen for other brands in recent reviews. I'm looking at either the LCD L37S20, L37G20 or plasma P42G20. Typical viewing distance will be 5-7 feet, so I don't know if 42" will be too big for SD content at that range. Would even 37" be pushing my luck? I'll be using it as my primary PC monitor too. I'd estimate the division of usage will be 30% gaming, 30% DVDs/Blu-ray, 30% PC, 10% broadcast TV.

I understand that plasmas offer better black levels and contrast ratios, but considering what I'll be using it for I'm worried about image retention and burn-in. I don't want to have to worry about whether I'll be stuck will lines across the screen if I spend too long watching cinemascope movies or content in 4:3 ratio. I'm also unclear on the arcane art of "breaking in" a plasma panel for the first 100-200 hours. I suppose an LCD would be the safe option, but then I'd have inferior SD and motion handling, and higher input lag. Speaking of lag, I've never been able to find out how high it is for my current LXD70, so I don't know it compares.

Some reviews glow about all these sets, while others are very critical, so I don't know what to make of it. I haven't viewed any of these TVs in store yet, but I'd like some opinions first. If no one's used any of these specifically, then I'd appreciate thoughts on what screen size would be best for my viewing distance or whether LCD or plasma is likely to be more suitable for my requirements.

How about waiting a few months and get a LED Tv so you can get proper colours just my opinion.

[Fudoh]

a LED Tv so you can get proper colours

has nothing to do with each other, especially the current thin Edge LED TV models have mediocre color rendition. Plasmas are way ahead of LCDs when it comes to natural colors.

What you were thinking of are the broadened color ranges the LED backlights allow. This is widely used to oversaturate colors though to make them pop out more on the selling floor.

but considering what I'll be using it for I'm worried about image retention and burn-in

Konsolkongen has recently bought a low-end Panasonic plasma. Screenshots in the XRGB thread. No problems with image retention and burn in and as far as I can tell he's quite happy with the set. The only downside is that the low-end models don't have VGA anymore. So you either have to buy a VGA to HDMI converter or buy one model up... (if you need VGA, which you probably will).

[speedlolita]

My friend got a 42" Panny plasma for £600 ish in Richersounds.

Fantastic image for the price, much better than any LCD.

[gray117]

I understand that plasmas offer better black levels and contrast ratios, but considering what I'll be using it for I'm worried about image retention and burn-in. I don't want to have to worry about whether I'll be stuck will lines across the screen if I spend too long watching cinemascope movies or content in 4:3 ratio. I'm also unclear on the arcane art of "breaking in" a plasma panel for the first 100-200 hours. I suppose an LCD would be the safe option, but then I'd have inferior SD and motion handling, and higher input lag. Speaking of lag, I've never been able to find out how high it is for my current LXD70, so I don't know it compares.

Been considering picking up a nice(r) screen myself - I asked some questions casually at a panasonic centre while being dragged around town by gf - it maybe sales talk but I'm pretty sure they'd guarantee against burn in on their new screens ... get that in writing and the higher price may well be worth the peace of mind.

I believe new models are due this sept from them... [not sure that this will significantly lower price of existing models, but might be worth waiting if you're looking at the higher end of price/size]?

Alternatively, try your luck - get that in writing for any screen/dealer - bit cheeky for sub (depending on screen size) £400, but if its important to you do it ... for £500+ I'd consider that ok ... and for £1000+ it should be baseline normal service... This is the one advantage to physical shops as opposed online sales; after all you are paying them for a service - get what you need from that service.

Personally, I've always trended to stuff behind the curve buying lots of bits as I wanted (fun), or should get (work), for low(er-ish) prices... but for an all-in-one screen for someone who has held out a little I think you'll be pleased with whatever you get (with a bit of care on choice) - after purchase your satisfaction may only be effected by 'peace of mind' and perhaps paying a bit more in exchange for a service may be worth it...

[Zeron]

a LED Tv so you can get proper colours

has nothing to do with each other, especially the current thin Edge LED TV models have mediocre color rendition. Plasmas are way ahead of LCDs when it comes to natural colors.

What you were thinking of are the broadened color ranges the LED backlights allow. This is widely used to oversaturate colors though to make them pop out more on the selling floor.
.

Then I have been fed alot of lies...

[StarCreator]

The fact that more than a couple IIDX arcade owners trust a Panasonic plasma to handle the display really says a few things about them in the lag and image retention departments. You can't ask for better displays, though I hear murmurs of problems with the 2009 model screens losing their superior deep blacks within a few months.

I'd also warn that the Panasonic screens I've seen with VGA inputs typically lock them down to a resolution below native, but I don't know if this is a current problem. The ones I've seen also have a zoom mode that displays HDMI signals with no overscan cropping, so I consider it sort of a non-issue.

[Daigohji]

Thanks for the thoughts so far. Please keep them coming.

I'd also warn that the Panasonic screens I've seen with VGA inputs typically lock them down to a resolution below native, but I don't know if this is a current problem. The ones I've seen also have a zoom mode that displays HDMI signals with no overscan cropping, so I consider it sort of a non-issue.

It's still an issue over VGA, as I've read the online user manuals for the 2010 models I'm looking at. Over VGA the highest widescreen resolution is 1360x768, but even my 2007 model LXD70 supports 1920x1080 through a DVI-HDMI cable. The only downside on my current TV is the overscan, but the 2010 models all have a user accessible menu option for 0% overscan via HDMI for 1:1 pixel mapping.

[Endymion]

RGB32E will be along to shit all over this thread in short order, especially now that I am here to mention that Panasonic's professional plasma line has support for all manner of VGA resolutions.

I just ordered this. It will be here Monday. Click on the spec sheet near the top. Look at the vast number of inputs that the display accepts over DSub. Also, as I've experience with many other older professional Panasonics, I'll attest to their very low lag. A lot of the issues that affect other HDTVs with lag or artifacts either just do not happen in these units, or they can be turned off--no service mode required. That's one of the nicer things about these things actually being more monitors than HDTVs. They don't even have a tuner. If you're the one percent of the population that sees phosphor trails, then that's that, but I know plenty of people who do see them and still choose a plasma screen for all its benefits. Burn-in is something that is always a problem with any phosphor screen, including a CRT. You could get burn-in, which is to say it can happen. But you would have to be pretty brain-dead about your usage to let it happen. Pixel orbiting helps allay it, and not using it as your main desktop PC every day helps as well. (I'm thinking a taskbar would probably be the first thing to burn in with that situation.) Gaming in general, be it console games, or PC games should be fine so long as you don't pause the game and leave it for a week... given that you consciously vary the usage and turn on the technical helpers to prevent it (pixel orbiting, negative screensaver, whitebar screensaver, etc.) and there is no reason you can't have a screen that wears evenly over time.

[cfx]

Yuck, it's also a 1366x768 panel.

What's the point in higher resolutions via the VGA input if the panel can't resolve them anyway?

[StarCreator]

What are you referring to? The panel Endymion linked is 1920x1080.

[Endymion]

Yuck, it's also a 1366x768 panel.

What's the point in higher resolutions via the VGA input if the panel can't resolve them anyway?

Your eyes.

Check them.

[RGB32E]

Eddy is a Pro Panny PDP fan.... so take that into consideration! The incorrect handling of 240p RGB sources via the PC input of Panasonic's VX100 series (pro display self rebadge) makes me think the other pro models do the same... :S However, I'm sure they work great with B1 mode on the XRGB3 (handles line doubled 240p correctly, but not native 240p)?

720p models are, and always will be compromising since the native resolution isn't divisible by the best resolution, so you always get nasty resizing... Just do the math! Do you really want to play Scott Pilgrim on a non-1080p display? I sure wouldn't.... looks bad!

Regardless of the things that are looked past, like the fact that PDPs are passive matrix displays that cannot individually be addressed (pixels), and the phosphor characteristics make for yellow (or green) smearing for those with critical eyes! So, modern PDPs are 3-Bit passive matrix dissonant displays.... no offense anyone... I'm tempted to buy a PDP for sh*ts'n'giggles... but I'd rather wait for a fully phosphorescent OLED display (active matrix). (no pentile RGBG thank you , but RGB tripplets from SMD are next)

Example (warning 6MB 1080p image):

[Endymion]

Regardless of the things that are looked past, like the fact that PDPs are passive matrix displays that cannot individually be addressed (pixels),

What are you trying to say? I know that you are trying to draw a comparison to how the electrodes are laid out behind a plasma screen, but you are a party of one wanting to refer to PDP as passive matrix. If all the ills of an LCD passive matrix were to befall a plasma it would have very poor contrast and high latency. Neither are the case. Phosphorous is just going to react faster than liquid crystal, which is the real reason passive matrix is bad news for LCD, so your analogy is meaningless here.

and the phosphor characteristics make for yellow (or green) smearing for those with critical eyes!

I think the word you meant to type there is "faulty."

[RGB32E]

@Eddy

Meh... Just offering an opinion that differs from your own, regardless of whatever flamebate you wish to set to defend your purchase! I look forward to your take on the PF20!

[RGB32E]

Update!

Panasonic out of the blue decided to announce their brand new GT25 gaming plasma series! Perhaps the R, G, and B phosphors will be more syncronous than the VT25 series!

Two models:
TC-P42GT25 - $1,700 Initial MSRP
TC-P50GT25 - $2,100 Initial MSRP

new fast switching phosphors

I just hope they're even quicker than the VT25 series the GT25 complements! Shipping by the end of this month!

[kemical]

I'd say go with whatever the latest plasma G25 models are, that is/will be my HDTV of choice when I eventually get one.

[cfx]

Yuck, it's also a 1366x768 panel.

What's the point in higher resolutions via the VGA input if the panel can't resolve them anyway?

Your eyes.

Check them.

My vision's rather poor, so thanks so much for the inconsiderate flippant response.