I have lost all respect in the Democratic party(US Politics)

[dtdg]

This topic is for the US forumites (You Europeans can jump into, too. If you what we're talking about.)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/08/ ... index.html


And Charlie Rangel comparing the US war in Iraq to the Holocaust. Wow, Can we say " over the top"?
Does anyone rememeber the 2004 elections, when The Dems were very high and mighty about their candidate and then the days and weeks after the elections, how every democratic politican came out of the wood work to whine on how badly they lost. (BTW it was close.) And how they wanted to connect with middle america?

Well, they're not doing a good job of it, Infact, I wonder if they gonna shoot themselves in the leg next time. Because They've blown off the left and right foot.


http://slate.msn.com/id/2120511/

CTRL+F "Fifteen minutes of infamy" then click on "Beautiful Atrocity"
Read all of them. YES, All of them.
Because when you really want to look like a total jackass and compare someone to the worst dictator of all time, compare them to Hitler.
It's both parties fault for starting this trend, Republican and Democrats.
But the burden of the load of blame goes to the democrats. Their Idealogues started it.
The more I think about, the more I get disgusted I get with our politicians.
They suck. If I were in charge, I would force them to cut their pay and accept minimum wage for their pay.

I'll post more of my thoughts.

[FatCobra]

I hate politics, that's why I didn't vote last year.

[dtdg]

Politics has the potential to change things.

But after the election, Everybody went back into their respective Swamps to throw **** at each other.

[sethsez]

But the burden of the load of blame goes to the democrats. Their Idealogues started it.

Bullshit.

This has been going on forever. Anyone remember when people were accusing Hillary Clinton of being a lesbian and a murderer? And let's not forget how "liberal" has been turned into a curse. "Why would you vote for him, he's a liberal." Oh, oh, and how about "baby killers" or "sodomites" that are routinely thrown around by Republican shills (godspeed Ann Coulter)?

Democrats whine that the Republicans started it, Republicans whine that the Democrats started it, and the independants are left saying "you're both idiots, now shut up."

[dtdg]

hmm...... I don't rememeber that.
But you have a good point.

[sethsez]

I should also qualify that by saying that I'm socially liberal and economically conservative. I vote democrat because they tend to satisfy one of the two while republicans satisfy neither, but given the choice of a legitimate third party I'd leave them in a heartbeat.

[dtdg]

Yep

[snap monkey]

Oh, oh, and how about "baby killers" or "sodomites" that are routinely thrown around by Republican shills (godspeed Ann Coulter)?

If you look at Ann Coulter as a comedian rather than a politician, then she can be rather entertaining. The sad thing is that she really is a politician and believes everything she says.

Back on topic, the Democratic party definitely needs to make some changes in the future, seeing as its influence in government is currently rather limited. Republicans run the White House, have the majority in both parts of Congress, and have the potential to put some more conservative justices in the Supreme Court. I doubt any of this came to be by accident.

[Brian]

My beef with the GOP is their self-righteouss stance on pro-life ideas. While a cell is the size of a comma in a sentence they are right-to-life. But, as soon as that cell becomes a human, it's a free for all. Death penalty, no gun control, no stem cell, misguided wars that kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, etc...

[The n00b]

I'd really rather the Euros didn't join in. They usually aren't up on the complexities of U.S. politics. Usually all they know is Bush=bad. Even when Bush bears a great resemblance to many "liberal" european politicians.

Anyway I've known about the stupidity of the Demo party for some time. They are exactly like the Republicans and will say anything to get into power. They are also no strangers to U.S. adventurism. Somalia, Bosnia, and countless Iraq military strikes are examples of this democratic party idiocy. They also tend to let European and other foreign countries run over them a little too much.

So anyway guys join me in the Green Party where we can choose not be a part of this insane system.

[BulletMagnet]

If you look at Ann Coulter as a comedian rather than a politician, then she can be rather entertaining. The sad thing is that she really is a politician and believes everything she says.

The sadder thing is that she, in spite of all of her inaccuracies and crackpot ramblings, was recently on Time magazine's cover (and praised by articles within), and there are still complaints from her camp about "Liberal Media Bias" (and that's not even taking into account that Bush was the same magazine's "Man of the Year"). An even sadder thing than that is that whenever her rants go relatively unnoticed she is praised for her "conviction" and "honesty," but when she says something really over the top (like, say, that she wishes Timothy McVeigh would have bombed the New York Times building instead) her followers say "Oh, she's just joking."

The saddest thing of all is that every other party in existence functions pretty much the same way.

[The n00b]

If you look at Ann Coulter as a comedian rather than a politician, then she can be rather entertaining. The sad thing is that she really is a politician and believes everything she says.

The sadder thing is that she, in spite of all of her inaccuracies and crackpot ramblings, was recently on Time magazine's cover (and praised by articles within), and there are still complaints from her camp about "Liberal Media Bias" (and that's not even taking into account that Bush was the same magazine's "Man of the Year"). An even sadder thing than that is that whenever her rants go relatively unnoticed she is praised for her "conviction" and "honesty," but when she says something really over the top (like, say, that she wishes Timothy McVeigh would have bombed the New York Times building instead) her followers say "Oh, she's just joking."

The saddest thing of all is that every other party in existence functions pretty much the same way.

Isn't that kind of the same treatment that Michael Moore gets from the radical demo(they aren't liberal by any means) camp? His friends even won him a few awards at the Canne film festival and gave him an Oscar for a shoddy high school film project that he called a documentry. This is proof that Moore's and Coulter's followers will do anything to get their radical leaders some legitamacy. Personally even though I hate these radical idiots, one part of Coulter's philosophy is kind of endearing. She absolutely hates weakness and is a total work out freak. Moore takes the opposite view and seems to embrace the worst excesses of American culture(obesity, money, extreme media pandering, etc.)

BTW isn't the "man of the year" honor kind of subject to interpretation? Time doesn't mean that this person is the greatest person of the year or intend it as an "employee of the week" honor. They just mean that for that year Bush was the most influential person. It's kind of like a 2600 cover....

[BulletMagnet]

Isn't that kind of the same treatment that Michael Moore gets from the radical demo(they aren't liberal by any means) camp?

Very much so:

The saddest thing of all is that every other party in existence functions pretty much the same way.

[TVG]

bush = bad lolo

i wish i could spend some time in the US, its fascinating stuff, seems like hell in some aspects, but awesome in others.

its like im totally off topic lololol

[sethsez]

Personally even though I hate these radical idiots, one part of Coulter's philosophy is kind of endearing. She absolutely hates weakness and is a total work out freak. Moore takes the opposite view and seems to embrace the worst excesses of American culture(obesity, money, extreme media pandering, etc.)

Wait, Ann Coulter doesn't embrace these things? What?

[Brian]

The war in Bosnia was 100% reasonable as their was mass genocide going on. Not to mention, the US did not lose 1 troop in Bosnia.

[Zhon]

I don't live in the States, but among the greatest gripe I have with all sorts of politicians is that nobody seems to face up to the fact that deficits->debt means greater future taxes or reduced funding. Almost every politician sacrifices tomorrow for today in this way, and treats deficits as minor issues. Every western country donates a huge chunk of taxes to interest payments simply because previous politicians sacrificed today for yesterday - and politicians today are doing the same thing.

[dtdg]

My beef with the GOP is their self-righteouss stance on pro-life ideas. While a cell is the size of a comma in a sentence they are right-to-life. But, as soon as that cell becomes a human, it's a free for all. Death penalty, no gun control, no stem cell, misguided wars that kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, etc...

I agree with two-third of that statement. But you know supporting the death penalty and being against abortion sorta makes no sense.
I disagree with the republican party on many issues, If they're against the abortion (rightly so) and for death penalty, it sorta makes their philospy hypocritical. I'am against abortion and somewhat against the death penalty.

[dtdg]

I'd really rather the Euros didn't join in. They usually aren't up on the complexities of U.S. politics. Usually all they know is Bush=bad. Even when Bush bears a great resemblance to many "liberal" european politicians.

Oh really, That's interesting. Explain

[captain ahar]

yeah, that Ann Coulter she really can conduct some airtight research... airtight, yup. i read Treason to see how awful it really was. i have never read something so full of bile and bullshit (...bileshit ).

now i have to read that Bill O'Reilly novel.

[Specineff]

My beef with the GOP is their self-righteouss stance on pro-life ideas. While a cell is the size of a comma in a sentence they are right-to-life. But, as soon as that cell becomes a human, it's a free for all. Death penalty, no gun control, no stem cell, misguided wars that kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, etc...

I live in the states as a foreigner, and don't like to comment too much on politics. Except when it comes around to bashing Bush in front of Greg so I can piss him off. Kidding, kidding...

Ok. Speaking seriously, I do think that anyone who ends up affected as a result of a decision in Washington, should be able to voice his opinion. (A friend of mine now cannot go to Canada from Ecuador because the current US administration urged the Land of Maple Syrup to toughen up the admission requirements in order to protect the USA. At least that's what he says.)

Just keep it civilized, and no tossing of crap, ok? Let's see if we can have a talk about politics in the forum that doesn't need to be closed by the mods.

[The n00b]

yeah, that Ann Coulter she really can conduct some airtight research... airtight, yup. i read Treason to see how awful it really was. i have never read something so full of bile and bullshit (...bileshit ).

now i have to read that Bill O'Reilly novel.

I don't think I can remember a truly happy and nice Ann Coulter. She's just so damn mean spirited.

[Nuke]

I'd really rather the Euros didn't join in. They usually aren't up on the complexities of U.S. politics. Usually all they know is Bush=bad. Even when Bush bears a great resemblance to many "liberal" european politicians.

I'd rather that someone living in Texas didn't join in. After all you have an over excess of political and religious fanaticism over there, death penalty, an eye for an eye "justice" department and the Jesus Day.

.....kidding, kidding. I just dissagree with your statement concidering you live in a state shaped by the "liberals" now in power

Just remember; An outside view can be a refreshing view.

[russ]

I agree with you, Nuke, but I see where the n00b is coming from: usually foreign countries' views on US politics is greatly distorted by the media, which happens to be liberally biased a lot...

[The n00b]

See Nuke that's part of what I mean. Bush isn't actually from Texas, he was born in Connecticut. IMO the death penalty in warrented in some cases. I'm atheist, I don't know when Jesus day is. Most of us in Texas drive cars and don't pack six shooters. I also voted Green party in the last election. To clear that up for our foreign friends that are not up on U.S. politics, that means I didn't vote for Bush. Believe it or not, many of us in the U.S. already know Bush=bad and we're not Michael Moore-like raving lunatics.

[matt]

I live in the states as a foreigner, and don't like to comment too much on politics.

Ain't it great? Politics are so much less interesting when you can't vote . With the current state of US politics, it's kind of nice being able to have an excuse not to participate.

Ok. Speaking seriously, I do think that anyone who ends up affected as a result of a decision in Washington, should be able to voice his opinion.

Oh, I could go on and on about this! Land of opportunity my ass.

But I won't, because life is no fun when you focus on the shitty parts of it.

I agree with you, Nuke, but I see where the n00b is coming from: usually foreign countries' views on US politics is greatly distorted by the media, which happens to be liberally biased a lot...

But Americans' views are also distorted by the media. The main difference is that our distorted views actually have an effect.

I wouldn't call the foreign press "liberally biased" - most of it isn't. Rather, the US has so many hardcore conservatives that everything else seems liberal by comparison.

[Nuke]

So? Bush was the governor of Texas. It does not matter were he was born, he was in power there and sent many innocent people to there deaths.
He still does.
And while he was, he made up Jesus Day, somthing you should be well aware of if you are into your nations politics.
And novere did I accuse you of being a gun-wielding lunatic, a Bush supporter or a religious fanatic, yet you took offence.
I'm an atheist myself.
And the sentence; "To clear that up for our foreign friends that are not up on U.S. politics...." steams of xenophobia.
But that is just my "liberal" and "foreign" opinion.

[matt]

I didn't know about Jesus Day until now. Nobody else I know, including some who are pretty devout Christians, have mentioned it. I don't think most people know that it exists. What does this have to do with US politics?

If Christians want to go celebrate something, they're welcome to it in my book.

I agree that most foreigners don't (and shouldn't) know much about US politics. I didn't give a rat's ass about US politics until I came here and it started affecting my life. Before then, the most I knew about were catchy media items like Bill Clinton messing up a blue dress and Dan Quayle spelling "potatoe". Politics in general are boring and inane; even more so if they don't apply to you.

[The n00b]

So? Bush was the governor of Texas. It does not matter were he was born, he was in power there and sent many innocent people to there deaths.
He still does.
And while he was, he made up Jesus Day, somthing you should be well aware of if you are into your nations politics.
And novere did I accuse you of being a gun-wielding lunatic, a Bush supporter or a religious fanatic, yet you took offence.
I'm an atheist myself.
And the sentence; "To clear that up for our foreign friends that are not up on U.S. politics...." steams of xenophobia.
But that is just my "liberal" and "foreign" opinion.

Yes child killers, serial killers, and murderers of all sorts are so cuddly and innocent. Whatever. Jesus day I still don't care about and it's going right back in the "stuff European people care about more than Americans" file along with Ali G and Kylie Minogue.

You didn't have to accuse me of anything I merely made fun of preconceived notions that many people have about my state.

I also don't think "liberal" translates too well past a nation's borders. ie. What's liberal in one nation is conservative in another.

[nullstar]

I don't live in the States, but among the greatest gripe I have with all sorts of politicians is that nobody seems to face up to the fact that deficits->debt means greater future taxes or reduced funding. Almost every politician sacrifices tomorrow for today in this way, and treats deficits as minor issues. Every western country donates a huge chunk of taxes to interest payments simply because previous politicians sacrificed today for yesterday - and politicians today are doing the same thing.

This is so true. So I'll rant on it for a bit.

The problem with deficit spending -- as you say -- is that the people who spend the non-existant money ultimately do not pay the bill. I assume even our non-US members know that Bush has been desperately trying to make Social Security reform a key aspect of his second term. My recommendation is to factor the age distribution of the population into the repayment of government debts -- and enforce it with Social Security payment garnishes and "death taxes". Put another way, folks born in 1990 should bear no responsibility for any debts racked up until they're eligible to vote folks into office (i.e. through 2008). If everyone born before then knows voting for the sort of outrageous spending that leaves us with 7 trillion dollars in debt means they'd grown old in a destitute manner -- and that those who don't need the social security payments will simply leave nothing to inherit. This "solution" has some serious problems, but I wish someone would launch a one-week media assault with a half-facetious plan like this that says we're gonna stick the bill for the national debt where it predominantly belongs: with the Greatest and Baby Boom Generations. (FWIW: This won't affect my Social Security payments, since I'm scheduled to retire in 2042...the year the Social Security fund is projected to go fully broke.)

I will point out that my major objection to starting (er, continuing) the war in Iraq was the massive debt it leaves with us to pay off. (Saddam needed to go, and the world had full justification to remove him from power regardless of the WMD question. The utter failure to get the right answer, however, looks like it may ultimately impact the US debt burden just as much as the 10-year tax break has/will. We are truly fortunate that the burden that fiasco caused will be born by us and our born-debtor children.) Bush ran his 2000 campaign on the notion that the US economy was in such great shape that his trillion+ tax cut would hardly make a dent in our debt repayments. (No, I don't remember him mentioning that this plan would push interest payments onto 10 years of people who had no hand in racking up those debts in the first place, but hey, some things just aren't important enough to mention.) By his third year, however, the White House was routinely defending itself at its daily press conferences by blaming the previous administration for our deficit problems since, by then, the data clearly showed that the economy was tanking before W took office.

I don't support a Constitutional amendment banning deficit spending outright -- there may be very good reasons for doing so on *occasion* (e.g. spending directly resulting from 9-11) -- but we need something that, at minimum, requires a 2/3 super majority and a fair, assured repayment plan by the folks who made the decision to spend the money in the first place.

The n00b: Care to extrapolate on how the Green Party would move us toward fiscal sanity? I find I have a lot of agreement with the ideals of both the Libertarian Party and Green Party. My general complaint w/ Libertarians is that they seem to hold personal property in higher esteem than life and liberty -- and would weaken the government to the point it would be hardly worth having at all. With the Greens, it's that I don't see them as reducing the overall cost of government in the pursuit of life and liberty -- but that our personal property wouldn't get the protection it ought to have.