Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

[Taylor]

Just curious. What makes Ketsui so good? I remember people in these forums were always asking for a port to hit console, and it seems in general people like this game a lot.

Just want to know what makes it stand out as a great shmup over others.

I want to know how many people who voted Ketsui as the best game ever without actually having played it are having second thoughts. Don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic, but it's certainly not one-size-fits-all, especially if you put a lot on presentation. Though I imagine everyone is at least smart enough not to vocalise their opinion.

[Jockel]

What do you expect? HD graphics and particle effects up the arse?
You're playing a 7 year old arcade game.

[emphatic]

This might help: if you stop firing, for more than about a second, the chain timer drops like a stone. Also killing things with lock shot doesn't boost the counter as much as with A shot.

"if you stop firing" - does that refer to both type shots, regular, or lock-shot? Lock-shot decreases your chain-clock, does it not? I've understood so far that killing of the chip-dropping enemies with C (regular) with a chain already going will give you a bigger clock boost. But why does pointblanking those very enemies with lock-shot sometime only give you suicide bullets? I guess there's some logic there I'm missing, but I'm gonna go for the 1-ALL on arcade mode first before trying to go deeper into X Mode.

[Ravid]

"if you stop firing" - does that refer to both type shots, regular, or lock-shot? Lock-shot decreases your chain-clock, does it not?

By 'stop firing' I mean 'do not press A or C.' In this case, the timer will drop from 99 to 0 in about a second, whereas if you're firing (but not hitting anything) it will take several seconds. You can stop firing very briefly without this happening.

Lock shot does not decrease the timer, it merely increases it less than C-shot. Usually A-shot alone isn't enough to keep your chain going.

I've understood so far that killing of the chip-dropping enemies with C (regular) with a chain already going will give you a bigger clock boost. But why does pointblanking those very enemies with lock-shot sometime only give you suicide bullets?

The only situation I can think of when killing a bullet-cancelling enemy (I assume this is what you mean by 'chip-dropping enemy') gives you suicide bullets is if a) you are on zero timer and b) you killed it with lockshot, but weren't actually locked on to it (but rather, for example, on to an enemy behind it). Other than that I've never seen it before, so I'm not sure.

[emphatic]

Thanks a bunch!

[Taylor]

What do you expect? HD graphics and particle effects up the arse?
You're playing a 7 year old arcade game.

You're shitting me?

[emphatic]

Don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic, but it's certainly not one-size-fits-all, especially if you put a lot on presentation. Though I imagine everyone is at least smart enough not to vocalise their opinion.

What's not to like? The superb graphics, the AWESOME music or the scoring system ever? Keep in mind that the PCB does look better in an arcade cabinet than the port does in anything.

[MrMonkeyMan]

I've understood so far that killing of the chip-dropping enemies with C (regular) with a chain already going will give you a bigger clock boost. But why does pointblanking those very enemies with lock-shot sometime only give you suicide bullets?

The only situation I can think of when killing a bullet-cancelling enemy (I assume this is what you mean by 'chip-dropping enemy') gives you suicide bullets is if a) you are on zero timer and b) you killed it with lockshot, but weren't actually locked on to it (but rather, for example, on to an enemy behind it). Other than that I've never seen it before, so I'm not sure.

If you don't have a chain and you kill a red enemy with the lock shot you need to cancel a certain amount of bullets to start a chain. It's something like 10+ bullets must be cancelled to start a chain.

[Cuilan]

The arranged music is nice. I think the original music is kinda bland though.

[bcass]

Keep in mind that the PCB does look better in an arcade cabinet than the port does in anything.

I feel kinda stupid right now, because it turned out that I had the overscan setting @ 99% which basically made the game über-blurry. Now, with 100% overscan and LANCOS filter (I've tried all of them, and this worked best for me), running the game in 24kHz with the UVC on my NANAO MS9 looks... wait for it.. as good as, if not better than the PCB.

Make your mind up.

[emphatic]

Make your mind up.

PCB it is then.

The arrange music makes me think of Ibara, and not the good parts.

Edit: A clarification is needed, as MOST PEOPLE won't be running this port in 24kHz on their EGRET II for Gods sake. I have seen the port on a Plasma, and mine looks way better than that and at least as good as the PCB (on my screen).

[Taylor]

Don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic, but it's certainly not one-size-fits-all, especially if you put a lot on presentation. Though I imagine everyone is at least smart enough not to vocalise their opinion.

What's not to like? The superb graphics, the AWESOME music or the scoring system ever? Keep in mind that the PCB does look better in an arcade cabinet than the port does in anything.

Ketsui's strong points are the aggressive score system and patterns. I can't say I get particularly excited for backgrounds, enemy design, or music. And I have played the PCB.

[Zero Gunner]

I've said it once, I'll say it again

when people piss and moan about shmup console port prices/value/availability I can't help but wonder why there isn't a shred of appreciation for the fact that we can even buy these games at a reasonable price to begin with. It's like OMG OMG I could have saved like $40 if I waited for it to go on sale, I hate you CAVE!!!! Come on people, you already saved over $1000 buy waiting for a port to begin with, show a little gratitude.

I DO appreaciate the fact that we are getting these games on a console at a fraction of the price a PCB goes for. But usually PCBs hold a decent value. It's very irritating to pay $230 for the Death Smiles Arcade stick and then see it on Ebay, brand new, for half that a couple of months later....it's very irritating to pay $100+ for a game and then see it for 40% off a month later. You'd be pissed too if a PCB, or anything, you purchased was 40% reduced in cost right after you got it.

This.
How the fuck would one complain about that? The games are meant to be played and not sold later.
The one who buys games just to sell them later at profit gets my official seal of douche.

I wasn't taking about game price speculating at all. Way to pay attention!

Aww, Is this the first video game you've bought all by yourself, big guy?

Given that I'm pretty sure my console collection easily trumps even most of the PCB collections the members here have....no. But we have established that you're a complete douchebag! Congratulations on your douchebaggery! Next time maybe you can think of an intelligent response? Yes, I was venting...does a $40 discount affect me financially? Not in the least. But for what I paid for my two, supposedly "limited" copies, I could now have order 3-4 copies. That's irritating as hell. Kind of takes away the "limited" aspect. Sure we all knew that US "limited" releases like Halo 3, or the upcoming Halo Reach Uber Edition, are going to get massively marked down and aren't really limited. But you kind of expect an niche game like Ketsui to not be half price the next month. Lesson learned though....NEVER support Cave at retail price because their shit will end up in the bargain bin. Message heard...loud and clear!

[EPS21]

Given that I'm pretty sure my console collection easily trumps even most of the PCB collections the members here have....no.

Your collection of much lower priced goods trumps ones that cost orders of magnitudes more? Very impressive!

[Joe T.]

Aww, Is this the first video game you've bought all by yourself, big guy?

Given that I'm pretty sure my console collection easily trumps even most of the PCB collections the members here have....no. But we have established that you're a complete douchebag!

Ahaha! Actually, what you've established is that you're willing to throw a tantrum on the internet the likes of which an 8 year old would be embarrassed by, all over a video game that went on sale. My apologies if I upset you though (clearly it doesn't take much). I was just joking.

[BIL]

OMG OMG I could have saved like $40 if I waited for it to go on sale, I hate you CAVE!!!!

[chempop]

But usually PCBs hold a decent value.

Ummm no they don't.

It's very irritating to pay $230 for the Death Smiles Arcade stick

I'd be irritated too if I spent over $100 on a sticker. That's why I bought a an EX-SE off amazon for $90... because it was on SALE.

Dude, I think you learned your lesson and can move on. If paying original price for something bothers you... wait until it's on SALE, simple as that my friend

[Zweihander]

WTF WTF WTF!!!! That's freaking half the price almost!!! I don't get it....is the game just not selling? Why in the hell would Amazon half price it two weeks after release. OMG I am NEVER buying Cave products at retail again. This stuff holds it's value like a rotten, two week old bucket of KFC! Bullshit! Death Smiles 1's LE and Arcade Stick, Mushihime LE, and now Ketsui.....and these games don't even hold their value as long a friggin Spongebob Square Pants game does. What the hell. Seriously can someone explain this to me? Used Cave PS2 games can go for hundreds of dollars but their new games sell for half price two weeks later?!?! WTF.....

EDIT: Ok so it's not actually only two weeks it's a full month now but seriously? This is ridiculous. Never again will I be hosed by a Cave product....

Wow. Someone even more butthurt about Ketsui port prices than I am. Never thought I'd see the day. Shit, a game and two remix albums? Well worth the $130, plus I wanted my copy then and there, not to mention the ability to shake it before buying. (to make sure there's no loose discs; this seems to be a universal problem with Ketsui)

[Elixir]

It's very irritating to pay $230 for the Death Smiles Arcade stick and then see it on Ebay, brand new, for half that a couple of months later

Jesus, it's just not worth using import websites any more. NCSX must be making a killing.

[Plasmo]

You'd be pissed too if a PCB, or anything, you purchased was 40% reduced in cost right after you got it.

By far your most ridiculous comment. I guess you don't know anything about PCB prices. Maybe some guys who bought the Ibara PCB at release can help you out.

Usually PCBs go down by $100-$200 each month after release, before they stable their value after 12 months or so.

[jonny5]

You'd be pissed too if a PCB, or anything, you purchased was 40% reduced in cost right after you got it.

By far your most ridiculous comment. I guess you don't know anything about PCB prices. Maybe some guys who bought the Ibara PCB at release can help you out.

Usually PCBs go down by $100-$200 each month after release, before they stable their value after 12 months or so.

beat me to the punch....

in any market, especially video games, buying at launch is usually a bad idea if you are worried about depreciation or price drops down the line, because if you buy it at launch for full retail, you can guarantee the price is gonna go down from there

i would think an experienced 'collector' would have realized this

[Zweihander]

in any market, especially video games, buying at launch is usually a bad idea if you are worried about depreciation or price drops down the line, because if you buy it at launch for full retail, you can guarantee the price is gonna go down from there

i would think an experienced 'collector' would have realized this

Radiant Silvergun, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Ibara, Recca, Gimmick!, Eliminate Down, Rendering Ranger R2, Earthbound, Hyper Duel, Rakugaki Showtime, Judgement Silversword, Dicing Knight, in all likelihood Ketsui Extra, and a shitload of other games would like a word.

While it's a general rule of thumb, it doesn't apply to everything.

[StarCreator]

Yes, there are exceptions to everything. Your point?

[bcass]

Look on the bright side. These two 5pb releases were manufactured and sold in such small quantities that they're likely candidates for future rarities, Ketsui in particular.

[jonny5]

in any market, especially video games, buying at launch is usually a bad idea if you are worried about depreciation or price drops down the line, because if you buy it at launch for full retail, you can guarantee the price is gonna go down from there

i would think an experienced 'collector' would have realized this

Radiant Silvergun, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Ibara, Recca, Gimmick!, Eliminate Down, Rendering Ranger R2, Earthbound, Hyper Duel, Rakugaki Showtime, Judgement Silversword, Dicing Knight, in all likelihood Ketsui Extra, and a shitload of other games would like a word.

While it's a general rule of thumb, it doesn't apply to everything.

in your 'bolding' frenzy you missed one

in any market, especially video games, buying at launch is usually a bad idea if you are worried about depreciation or price drops down the line, because if you buy it at launch for full retail, you can guarantee the price is gonna go down from there

im not stating a rule...just a generalization......

[MrMonkeyMan]

I don't know if anyone else has had this happen to them, but the clones on stage 5 can still run off with your 1up. Fuckers.

[8 1/2]

And it is done. I put down the ICC on Ketsui arcade mode last night at about 10:30. I'd post a pic, but there's really not much point since, like Progear, it doesn't list "ALL" under the stage category on the high score list, and instead only says, "Stage 5".

It was actually my first time making it to Evacaneer on a credit, and I coasted into the fight with two bombs in stock and an extra life up top. It took me all of that to take him down, even though I've had better runs in the past. Still, just nice to finally put that notch in my Cave bed post and move on to some relaxing games of DSIIX for a bit before I return to Ketsui again to work on score.

My final score was a rather pitiful 52,238,505.

All told, it took me 23 hours and 55 minutes of game time to go from my first game of Ketsui to clearing the first loop. I have still not unlocked the grindy achievements for all of the chips, with at least 10k left toward getting the "4" and "5" versions.

Here's my current list of Cave 1CC's in order of completion.

Dodonpachi - 1st loop
Esprade
Espgaluda
Ibara - PS2 Arrange Mode
Progear - 1st loop
Deathsmiles
Deathsmiles MBL
Futari 1.5 - Original
Futari Black Label - Original
Deathsmiles IIX - 360 mode
Deathsmiles IIX - Arrange mode
Ketsui - 1st loop

[Skykid]

Make your mind up.

PCB it is then.

Win.

[jonny5]

But usually PCBs hold a decent value.

Ummm no they don't.

buy a lot of PCB's, do ya?

[Jockel]

My final score was a rather pitiful 52,238,505.

oO
The fuck?
How can you finish the game with such a low score? ^^"
I don't see the 1cc near me anytime soon (ugh stage 4 boss, let alone stage 5), and still i have +60mil on my best runs.
That gives me some hope that one day i might be able to 1cc it myself