Any RPG fans here?

[CMoon]

Been hitting Strange Journey really hard lately and thinking about the PSP version of Persona (1). I don't currently have a PSP...is this a good system for RPGs (or a good system in general)? Not too excited about buying another console, but looks like PSPs can be had for ~$100, and some of the games there are becoming cheap.

I don't really love the handheld thing, but on the other hand, chillin' on the couch playing Strange Journey is incredibly awesome.

[sjewkestheloon]

My PSP gets a fair amount of use and I have a small library of games that I can go back to constantly for some pick up and play fun.

Wipeout Pure
Beaterator
Star Ocean 2
Popolocrois
Lumines
Rock Band Unplugged
Every Extend Extra
Untold Legends: Brother of the Blade

For RPGs specifically, there aren't too many essentials. There are 2 Star Ocean games, Popolocrois which is a really simplistic but fun megamix of a series of Japanese games, a couple of Tales games, the Disgaea games and a few loot whore action RPGs. Oh and some PS1 ports.

[Obiwanshinobi]

If you mod your PSP (by hook or by crook), you can emulate... things on it. You know, things. Shame about the pussyfied Valkyrie Profile PSP port (some attacks of certain bosses are disabled and all the menu improvements of the US version are gone). Valkyrie Profile on the PSX is fantastic, provided you've got the patience to study its intricacies. It is a blast once you get the hang of it. Not really a handheld game, though.
P.S. Gorgeous pixel art by the way.

[ZOM]

I second the PSX version of VP. The PSP version is totally redundant, I dunno why sqeenix even bothered. They could've just released the PSX version over PSN for PS3/PSP... but no, typical SE move.

[BulletMagnet]

I don't currently have a PSP...is this a good system for RPGs (or a good system in general)?

I would put it a notch or three below the DS, but I'm glad I have one - most of the noteworthy RPGs on it are ports, but if nothing else they can usually be had for a good deal cheaper than their original iterations. Some of the good stuff (Suikoden I and II, Far East of Eden IV) never made it out of Japan, though a few others (Breath of Fire III) can be imported easily from Europe. I'm not an expert on how well most of the stuff turned out compared to the originals, but if you're an RPG fan on a budget it's certainly not a bad system to own.

On a semi-related note I find myself less enthralled with Strange Journey than I thought I'd be, which is especially odd since I was such a huge fan of Nocturne.

[Ganelon]

If you import, there are a lot of solid titles on the PSP that cover every genre (Elminage II is pretty much the gold standard for handheld dungeon crawlers, Growlanser is still awesome, and there's plenty of Falcom goodness). For US RPGs, it has some good hits but probably not enough of them.

And it's no surprise about SMT really. I'm not a fan of Nocturne at all but Strange Journey was right up my alley as expected; you've got to enjoy the feel of how the SMT series started.

[CMoon]

On a semi-related note I find myself less enthralled with Strange Journey than I thought I'd be, which is especially odd since I was such a huge fan of Nocturne.

Funny that. I'd be curious to hear why. Did you enjoy the EO games?

Edit: I should add, a lot of what made Nocturne great though was its presentation. Strange Journey unfortunately cannot compete with this. I also don't think they should have ditched the press turns. Alignment co-ops + press turn would have made combat unreal!

[BulletMagnet]

Funny that. I'd be curious to hear why.

Etrian Odyssey and its ilk (the "play us Because We're Dungeon Crawlers, and that's all you need to know" sub-genre) never really appealed to me on merits, so I can't really compare Strange Journey to those (though I am aware that some of the same framework is in there). What you say about Nocturne's presentation is true, though it's not so much the intrinsic quality that gets to me (the animated and squawking demons are a big improvement on the static, silent buggers in Devil Survivor) than the lack of "vision" for lack of a better word - even in a simpler setting Nocturne's sleek, eerie design aesthetic would still have been evocative and unique, but I don't think I'd look twice at Strange Journey even in 1080p. The music is an even stronger example, I think - Nocturne's eclectic mix of haunting ambiance, raspy rock, and heavy church organ helped it stand out, while Strange Journey's "orchestra + nonsense chanting" theme runs pretty much all the way through.

More than that, though, I think the exploration and battle structure kind of has it backwards - granted, in any RPG you start off tip-toeing through a new area until you figure out what sorts of enemies you have to deal with, but SJ takes it to an illogical extreme. Until you beat an opponent once you can't even see what it looks like, leading to repeated deaths against mixed parties of tough opponents until you get lucky and figure out what works on Scrambled Static On The Left, but not Scrambled Static On The Right. Once you finally know what you're up against things get loads easier, especially since your HP and MP are restored to full when you level up now - in essence, the difficulty curve runs in reverse. Again, every RPG does this to some extent, but SJ goes so far as to exacerbate it, and while others might not mind it so much, I found myself less and less motivated to play it as time went on. There are other minor things, but those are my biggest problems with it, off the cuff.

[Obiwanshinobi]

That Hikawa bloke from Nocturne looks like Gary Numan.

[professor ganson]

First, it's no fair that Japan already has a greatest hits Growlanser PSP and still no US port.

Second, I love Strange Journey's opening, but I got completely side-tracked by Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon on hardest setting (H5). This is brutal, but I've managed to get to Stage 4 with a complete stock of characters so I should last for at least a few more stages. The bosses are insane. Has anyone else tried cranking up Fire Emblem SD's difficulty?

Third, in spite of my initial hesitation, on further reflection I have to agree with everything here:

I would put it a notch or three below the DS, but I'm glad I have one - most of the noteworthy RPGs on it are ports

While I think Crimson Gem Saga and Jeanne D'Arc are great fun, I suppose the PSP's rpg library is mainly about ports and for that reason alone it may be a notch below the DS's.

[BulletMagnet]

First, it's no fair that Japan already has a greatest hits Growlanser PSP and still no US port.

Heh, the Falcom situation on the PSP is even more frustrating - not only do they (mostly) keep the good stuff over there, but do so while putting in the effort to send over (mostly) the dregs.

[s3rris]

I like pokemon, does that count?

I haven't played a ton of RPGs, but I have played much pokemon in my time and I beat ChronoTrigger about a year ago.

With RPGs I often feel I've wasted too much time playing a game. At least with shmups I usually play in short bursts and feel less... I dunno... unproductive?

[Obiwanshinobi]

I like pokemon, does that count?

I haven't played a ton of RPGs, but I have played much pokemon in my time and I beat ChronoTrigger about a year ago.

With RPGs I often feel I've wasted too much time playing a game. At least with shmups I usually play in short bursts and feel less... I dunno... unproductive?

Avoid Persona 3 like a nasty infection then, unless you wanna fall victim to the "misery loves completion" syndrome.
At least you have played one jRPG really worth it. ChT is the main reason I keep playing the fuckers, but really, your average jRPG is hardly a game. I even like FFVII and I suck for the Square's fairytelling to the point of having played through the eternal poorness of Xenogears, like, in this century (last year to be precise), but if you already feel about jRPGs the way you described, you need to be very picky. Still, can't go wrong with Digital Devil Saga (if you work on it properly and refuse to dilute it by grinding). I'm afraid "short bursts" aren't the optimal way of playing DDS, though.

[ZOM]

First, it's no fair that Japan already has a greatest hits Growlanser PSP and still no US port.

Heh, the Falcom situation on the PSP is even more frustrating - not only do they (mostly) keep the good stuff over there, but do so while putting in the effort to send over (mostly) the dregs.

What are you on? If you're implying that those mass-bastardized shitty Eiyuu Densetsu ports have anything to do with the almighty falcom besides licensing... I don't even want to hear such heresy


@Obiwanshinobi
I just pretend I have not read about your multiple ramblings about Xenogears.
While the story sure needs some serious "polishing", especially according to the perfect works book, the battle system while simple sure was one of the most enjoyable for its time, maybe having played the game at launch clouds a bit the judgement, or is it the other way around? Not to mention the whole "characters on foot and in mecha" premise was very fresh and a treat for mecha fans at the time (even if most mechs in the game look a bit meh).

[Obiwanshinobi]

I'm just slightly bitter with people who - I'm SURE of it - haven't played Xenogears since the PlayStation days, and yet keep pimping it as the best game EVAH (I'm not picking on anyone here; just recalling the fervent cult afterhype I once fell for). Sometimes a game just doesn't "click" with you, but this wasn't my case with Xenogears. DQVIII hasn't clicked with me, Chrono Cross hasn't clicked with me, but with Xenogears, I just couldn't believe how fucking broken this game was. Right after the village thing, when I was supposed to wander through some forest and the "gameplay" hit the home for good, I nearly burst into tears of disappointment like a wee crybaby. It was like all design flaws I let the other jRPGs get away with returned only to stab me in the back. I'm shitting you not, if you've got a copy handy, play it right know and see for yourself this game's true face (if you really believe it's worth recommending in this day and age, that is). In my opinion every apologist of Xenogears deserves just this - another playthrough, right here, right now. To completion.
It's an outstanding game in many respects (good story, dreamy soundtrack, graphics on a par with the mighty Silent Hill in terms of details and atmosphere, decent combat alright), but playing through its gamey parts was a chore nonetheless. Mostly.

[CMoon]

@ Bullet Magnet regarding Strange Journey.

Put in a lot of time this morning and am really digging the game (I think this is about as good as this sort of thing gets on a handheld), but I'm starting to see how many things aren't here. SJ definitely is not hollow BUT the combat is in respect to Nocturne--but it's taking me a while to actually see why.

I understand the idea of dumping press turn for demon co-op. The alignment system feels fresh (even though it is really a return to SMT roots), and turning that into a combat mechanic is rather innovative, however this is actually a rather sizable blunder...not just a step back.

With the press turn system removed, criticals have been nerfed to meaning nothing more than they are in other RPGs. Elemental attacks no longer have stun properties (IE freezing or shock), so tactics which involved picking up extra turns off dazed opponents has simply been ditched. If Atlus had wanted to make the demon co-op thing feel a bit deeper, they might have kept the elemental effects and allowed demon co-op off of criticals. It would have also allowed for the return of skills like dark might and bright might, instead of reducing the moon cycle to a mere triviality.

I'm definitely not disappointed with this game--hell, I'm loving every moment of it--but it not only could have been a lot better, it SHOULD have been a lot better.

[BulletMagnet]

With the press turn system removed, criticals have been nerfed to meaning nothing more than they are in other RPGs. Elemental attacks no longer have stun properties (IE freezing or shock), so tactics which involved picking up extra turns off dazed opponents has simply been ditched.

Funny you should mention those, as that particular batch of omissions are ones that I personally don't mind - while it could be argued that the "please, please let this work" factor is part of the SMT experience, getting royally screwed over by mostly-random elements like critical hits and status effects wasn't my favorite part of Nocturne (nothing like an ill-fated charm spell on a Mamudoon caster granting an instant Game Over to a fully healthy party). Granted, building yourself up to tilt these sorts of odds in your favor as much as possible is part of the strategy, but I think there are better ways to make combat and character/demon growth interesting, and without the added dollop of frustration - in this area I can't get on SJ's case too much. Unfortunately, they more or less replace that "please let this work" aspect with another one, namely the fact that demons are unidentifiable until you've killed them once (and most of their stats are hidden until you interact with them a bunch more times). It just feels to me like an extra layer to the grinding, and a luck-based one at that...in short, not what I was hoping to see from the next evolution of the series.

[Ganelon]

In my opinion every apologist of Xenogears deserves just this - another playthrough, right here, right now. To completion.

Well, it's true I haven't played it since it was released and it's still among my favorite JRPGs. I'm sort of saving it up for a time years from now where the game's plot will completely disappear from my mind so that I can enjoy it anew.

Honestly, it's battle mechanics are quite repetitive in most cases though. It has an illusion of being edge-of-your-seat but along with the constant battling, just makes it a bit more work than your usual JRPG menus. That said, the presentation is great and the battles definitely don't detract at all from the excellent atmosphere.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Even good combat system can be badly implemented. Leving Xenogears aside, I did like Persona 3's combat system, but generally its dungeon crawling wasn't half as good as in the other Shin MegaTen games I played. If you put dungeon crawling in your dating sim, why make it below the standard of your own dungeon crawlers, Atlus? Huh?
I know it's not an easy task to just replay such a long, story-driven game. Perhaps I should replay Planescape: Torment, which I have fond memories of (one of the EVAH-best etc.), but even back then I didn't like the Infinity Engine. I wonder if I could put up with it these days. The reason I've still yet to play Baldur's Gate 2 is the following equation: Forgotten Realms + Infinity Engine = major turn-down for me. I've also yet to play KotOR2. I liked the first one quite a lot, but in hindsight BioWare can fuck off with their take on cRPG combat. Star Wars - good, Chris Avellone - not too shabby, same old BioWare engine - excuse me, Lucifer's calling.
Friggin' Arcanum, as bugged as it was, at least wasn't forcing that wannabe Diablo nonsense down my throat. Its crappy attempt at real-time coolnes was optional.

[Pirate1019]

(if you work on it properly and refuse to dilute it by grinding)

lol good luck on the bosses in the last dungeon if you didn't get certain skills through the mantra tree. I say this mainly because in DDS1 I had to spend several hours grinding my self stupid because one particular boss was for all intents and purposes, impossible without a particular set of skills that I was lacking.

I still love it though.

Persona...I don't know. I liked 3, and I enjoyed 4 even though I haven't beat it. The social thing was cool and different, but the fighting was lame. I played P3 after I'd seen Nocturne and it was hard to play it and not just see a stripped down press-turn system where 2/3 of your party was wrenched from your control and delegated to the AI.

[BulletMagnet]

I played P3 after I'd seen Nocturne and it was hard to play it and not just see a stripped down press-turn system where 2/3 of your party was wrenched from your control and delegated to the AI.

I hate AI allies too, but to be fair they definitely weren't as stupid as they could have been - at least not to the point of ruining the game (unlike some others). Not to mention that the option to directly control everyone is in the PSP port - it should've been there since the beginning, granted, but at least it didn't take them too long to catch on.

[Pirate1019]

Don't get me wrong, the AI was fine, assuming you babysat them with orders constantly, but if an RPG is turn-based there is absolutely no excuse for AI controlled partners with no option for manual control. None.

[sjewkestheloon]

I got Disgaea on the PSP yesterday and then played it for 8 hours. Games is addictive.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I say this mainly because in DDS1 I had to spend several hours grinding my self stupid because one particular boss was for all intents and purposes, impossible without a particular set of skills that I was lacking.

I don't recall anything of this nature from my DDS1 playthrough on Normal. In DDS2 on Hard, however, I spent days working on the last two bosses, finally read up the walkthrough to find out which mantras would give me the skills I needed, grinded a bit (nowhere near "hours", though) to unlock these mantras and beat the last bastard boss. Then again, I wanted hard, I got hard (and I gave up on certain optional bosses... for now).
Anyway, by "diluting" I meant grinding the hell out of the game just in case rather than doing your best. Looking realistically, there's always some sort of grinding going in RPGs, but it's only wrong when it FEELS like grinding (it's not challenging anymore in ANY way, yet you still have a lot of it to do). Grinding itself can be compulsive and I'm not judging people who have fun grinding (it's pretty harmless and safer than, say, gambling), but personally I'm allergic to it. What I like about DDS and Nocturne is that when I seek the challenge, it's there. I never feel too powerful for the job.
P.S. A Strange Journey review just popped up on Eurogamer.

[Pirate1019]

I say this mainly because in DDS1 I had to spend several hours grinding my self stupid because one particular boss was for all intents and purposes, impossible without a particular set of skills that I was lacking.

I don't recall anything of this nature from my DDS1 playthrough on Normal.

I still can't quite believe it. If I remember, I needed 3 higher level debuff skills and none of my developed party members had any of them.

Which game did you prefer more? DDS 1 or 2? I almost want to say I liked 1 more because it had the mantra tree instead of the hex grid.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I slightly preferred 1, but for "cosmetical" reasons mostly (mantra grid was a graph very similar to the tree, just presented in a different manner). 1 felt more consistent and "gothic" (gloomy/enigmatic/mysterious), it was such a monolith... As DDS is really one story in two volumes, 2 just couldn't keep up the coolness of 1. It's all fun and games as long as you build up the mystery, but when you deliver explanations and graphical variety, the monolith starts to crack and crumble.
I mean, in the first cut-scene of 2 I see trees of green, skies of blue and children running aroud. This is just anything like 1 and you can tell it's time to wake up.
As for grinding in DDS, I must admit that beating any game (except for auto-scrollers maybe) usually takes more of my time than it should according to the majority of people who played it. Even when I breeze through something short and easy, not getting stuck at any point, in the end counter says 7 hours instead of 5 the game was supposed to last. In the likes of DDS it probably means more random battles before I face the final boss, which is effectively no different from grinding. I remember having a difficult time solving some warping puzzles in the last dungeon. Of course getting stuck on such obstacle in DDS makes you grind whether you want it or not.

[professor ganson]

I got Disgaea on the PSP yesterday and then played it for 8 hours. Games is addictive.

Thanks to swine flu, way back in 2009, I was unable to do anything other than grind my way through this remarkable game. I hear Disgaea 2 PSP is even better! So I'm looking forward to that. In my trip to SF over spring break I got a Disgaea plastic character for $7. It was random which character you got. I don't remember the name of the character. but it has a gun. Unfortunate because I'm not a gun fan, but it's pretty cool all the same.

Still playing Fire Emblem SD on hard x5. This may be the ultimate srpg, though I suppose it lacks in exactly what Disgaea does so well: allowing for a plurality of different responses to a given challenge. The opponents are so powerful in Fire Emblem on the hardest setting, and the opportunities for grinding are so rare and limited, there aren't a ton of (successful) options available.

[ShmupSamurai]

I enjoy:

Breath of Fire III(Psx)

Panzer Dragoon Saga(most unique RPG I've ever played, Saturn)

Emerald Dragon(SNES)

Nostalgia(Ds, I LIVE for the airship battles, because they remind me of PDS)

Ys I-III

Haven't played Xenogears yet, got Xenosaga Episode II for X-mas two years back and was deeply disappointed....

[BryanM]

Learned something called "Nanashi no Game" exists today. Very annoying no one tells me these things.

It's a survival horror game for the DS. It features a cursed 8-bit rpg game that kills people.

That's all I know about it. I would much like to know a bit more.

[ZOM]

Learned something called "Nanashi no Game" exists today. Very annoying no one tells me these things.

It's a survival horror game for the DS. It features a cursed 8-bit rpg game that kills people.

That's all I know about it. I would much like to know a bit more.

That game is great and I still curse sqeenix for not bringing it over. There's also a sequel that I have yet to play.
Mind you, my very limited knowledge of the Japanese language let me barely beat the game, so I can't comment too much on story and plot, but the atmosphere and implementation of the "cursed game" is neat, especially if you play it at night in your bed at full volume with headphones.
I still have that melody in my ears playing. Also, how the game glitches is very well done - the graphical glitches look pretty much genuine and the distorted melody gives off nasty vibes. I wish someone would translate that game.