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 Post subject: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:20 am 


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Aloha. Under Defeat is one of my favorite games, and no one has cared enough to draw up a treatise for it yet, so I am. Any and every amendment/addition/new strat/whatever is completely welcome to consideration. Let's get started.

(Totally awesome bros so far: lgb, ReKleSS, louisg, BER, Enhasa, Kiken, Bill, Hydeux, alamone) (If I've forgotten to credit you, send me a nasty PM. It'll help me sleep better at night.)

Table of Contents

1. Basics and Mechanics

2. Other Misc.

3. Boss Strategies

4. Detailed Stage Walkthroughs (I'll pay for screens in favors...)

5. Loop 2 Advice

Update History
10/22/09
Guide posted, initial tweaks
10/23/09
Added Rank, slight tweaks
10/25/09
Added first third of Stage 1 Walkthrough
10/26/09
Finished Stage 1 Walkthrough, added Boss 1 Walkthrough
10/29/09
Added info on suicides for score

And away we go!


1. Basics and Mechanics

General
Under Defeat is unlike most STGs of this decade in that, not only is it in 3D, but it's strayed away from the common bullet hell trend and back to its roots: it's an oldschool shooter in almost every mechanical aspect, while going above and beyond in its beautifully polished Naomi visuals and an incredible Shinji Hosoe soundtrack. As such, forget your two-pixel CAVE hitboxes and 6,000-bullet danmaku patterns. These are mostly aimed bullets that require good leading and planning on the part of the player; more often than not, trying to squeeze through a tiny criss-crossing gap will get you killed. I feel this is an important point to bring up in the beginning, so the player can try to change his or her manner of thinking and playing right away and avoid as much frustration as possible.

System (Mechanics)

Weapons
Under Defeat, as opposed to the overwhelming majority of shooting games, has no powerups and no extends. You have your mounted vulcan on your beautiful red helicopter, two side-machine guns, and an Option. The mounted vulcan and Option can lock on to any target, ground or air, with the weakling machine guns left to spray into the distance, whether the vulcan is shooting the ground or not. Options are obtained from weapon carrier dual-prop helicopters and certain other enemies, such as the gunships just before the boss on 1-2. Options must charge before use, and cool down after, as indicated by the green and red bars on the bottom of the screen, respectively.
The three types of Options are as follows:

>VULCAN<
It's basically your default mounted vulcan, except it locks on to any enemy it can find. It has the quickest charge and cooldown time of any Option. Useful for popcorn, but harder to use to score with larger enemies. Perfectly useful for an experienced player, however.

>CANNON<
The medium weapon of Under Defeat, the cannon has a slightly slower charge and cooldown time than the vulcan, but will shoot single cannon shells at around a second's interval until it runs out of juice. Will destroy many medium-small enemies in one shot, and is plenty powerful enough to tackle most large enemies with help from your helicopter's mounted chaingun.

>ROCKET<
The heavy weapon that it is, it naturally has the longest charge and cooldown, but also the highest firepower of any weapon available, with exception to the screen-covering bomb (which isn't as powerful per square unit of screen). Incredibly useful for a veteran scoring player and novices alike, this powerhouse can be, however, a boon OR a bane. You only get one shot before having to wait several seconds (5-10) to ready another rocket, so if you miss, you're hosed.

Valuable Resources
The two spare stock are static, but there are a total of nine extra bombs per loop; one on the first stage, and two every stage after that. The max number of bombs to be carried at once is six; for every bomb collected after six, 10000 points are awarded to the player. Bombs and stock are quite influential to scoring, and proper management will reflect a player's score. As Kiken points out, killing a Contribution enemy with a bomb will not award its % to your total, so be wary of their use.

System (Scoring)
The scoring system in Under Defeat is based around killing enemies with the Option and manipulating certain end-of-round multipliers based on speed and life/bomb stock. Every time an enemy is killed with the Option, the point value of the enemy is doubled, as displayed in the upper left corner in green. When multiple enemies are destroyed at a time, they are displayed vertically under a "x2" designation. It does NOT accumulate or chain or anything, it just gives a straight double point value for each enemy.

Code:
x2
100
10000
5000
500


The scoring can be as involved and strategic or as nonexistent as the player pleases; there are no score-based extends. Naturally, being that the Option dictates half of the player's potential score during stages, strategic Option management is key to taking down the larger enemies to maximise the score.

The other component(s) of scoring are the end of stage bonuses, which account for a fifth to a third of the player's score (if anyone would like to narrow this down a bit, that'd be fantastic). The four important parts are as follows:

1. Contribution %
2. Life Count Multiplier
3. Boss Kill Speed
4. Bomb Count
(If anyone knows the proper names, I'd be glad to hear them.)

1. Contribution % & Life Count Multiplier
Contribution % refers to the percentage per stage of special enemies killed. These enemies include, but may not be limited to (depending on whether I realize I've forgotten something):

Random popcorn tanks throughout each stage that are marked differently, have a bit more HP, and fire three shots instead of one. As stated, locations are random, so training one's eyes to seek these tanks in particular will save lots of headaches. As Kiken points out, killing a Contribution enemy with a bomb will not award its % to your total, so be wary of their use.
Large tanks and turrets (on the ground and battleships, respectively), which are always in the same place, and generally are worth 10,000 points (x2 = 20,000). Examples include: huge tank that exits bunker in 1-1, wide turrets on each battleship in 1-2, huge tank behind bunkers and before midboss in 1-3, etc. Locations of these will be outlined in individual stage guides later on.
Stage-specific structures and bosses, such as 1-3's midboss tank and parts of ships and the bridge of the first battleship (destroyer?) in 1-2. Again, these will be outlined.

If you kill/destroy all of the contribution targets, your life count multiplier is doubled. The default formula is: (Contribution %) x 100 x (number of times died, which is the Life Count Multiplier)

So, if you kill every Contribution enemy, the formula looks like this: (Contribution %) x 100 x (100 + 100(number of times died, which is the Life Count Multiplier)) x 2

So, if you haven't died at all, the max score from this is 10,000 x 2 = 20,000. If you've died once, 40,000. Twice, 60,000.

Yes, this means that to maximise one's score, one must suicide twice in the first stage to maximise the multiplier, and thus one's score, for the rest of the game. Keep in mind that there are no extends whatsoever in Under Defeat, so suiciding may be a very stressful idea.

Note: Suiciding twice on 1-1 is only worth a grand total of around 350,000 points by the end of the game. The world record score is about 7.5 million points. This is a completely unnecessary tactic and should not be overemphasized as a reason not to play the game. Ignore it if it bothers you, and you still have plenty of room to beat Kiken.
By pure virtue of point values, 40,000 points per stage x 10 stages = 400,000 points. Suiciding twice lowers the number of enemies that appear quite noticeably, decreasing scoring opportunities by at least something like 50,000 points.

Side note: An average of 95% or more contribution is required over all five stages to make it to the second loop. This means that 100% + 90% + 70% + 100% + 95% = 91% and no second loop. Cone trees.

3. Boss Kill Speed
Bosses have a set time limit. To get the contribution bonus or any points from the kill, you have to kill it before it times out (or to get points for the kill, with no bomb activated). For every second left on the timer, you get 1,000 points. A second passes, you get 1,000 less points. So, naturally, the best way to score from killing a boss is to smash all its pieces with an option in the quickest time possible, which is why the Rocket is the natural choice for most scoring players. Not much else to this.
BER points out that in Ikaruga, the timer rounds up. In this game, if the timer is at 45'00, 45'01, 45'90, etc., the bonus will be 45,000. 44'99 is still 44,000. No rounding up for you.

4. Bomb Count
For every bomb you have at the end of the stage, you get 10,000 points. Pretty simple. Again, every bomb picked up after six during a stage yields 10,000.

2. Other Miscellaneous

Rank
Disclaimer: Before I even begin writing this, I'm going to ask that you take this with a grain of salt, as the rank in this game is total bullshit and I can't really tell how it actually works. This needs urgent revision.
Rank in this game can be extremely nasty. How so, you ask? Well, by 1-3, it's usually going to be near max. According to the practice mode, the rank can be anywhere on a scale from -10 to +10. One may assume that it starts out at the practice default, 0. Bombing appears to lower rank, however, dying seems to alter it in weird ways. I believe it may have something to do with bomb stock at the time of death.
Personally, I restart whenever I do something that isn't according to my plan, and I haven't yet played around enough with suiciding to determine any hard facts. I'm in dire need of help :)

Random
Every shot from the main gun of the helicopter (not the side guns, not an Option) that connects with either an enemy or certain background structures yields 10 points. It's not a whole hell of a lot, but some players extremely obsessed with score or who get bored when the screen isn't busy for five seconds can get some use out of making sure to land as many shots as possible. Examples include the water tower at the beginning of 1-2. I'll be sure to mention any I know of in individual stage discussion.
Similar situations can also be annoying though; be certain not to be shooting a bunker or building instead of a ground target; the main vulcan actually shoots at the proper angle to connect with a target, and if there's a building in the way, it usually won't penetrate.

Another important item to note is that enemy bullets fired from the ground will NOT reach your helicopter's plane of altitude immediately, so a player familiar with the timing and coloring on this can make good use of it to exploit every possible inch of screen. Comes in especially handy during Stage 2's first battleship/destroyer/huge boat.

[This part needs some fleshing; post some suggestions :)]

How to clear Round 1
Infinite thanks to Hydeux!

This concludes the first part so far; the next posts will be reserved for Boss Strategies, Stage Walkthroughs, and Loop 2 Advice.


Note: ANY player with more expertise than myself is urged to contribute. I'll cry your praises all over the place until the end of time.


Last edited by TLB on Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:28 pm, edited 17 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:20 am 


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Boss Strategies

Boss 1
For this boss, I recommend the Rocket.

As the fight begins, I wait in the middle-left of the bottom of the screen, so that the tail of the helicopter is almost touching the "FREE" in "FREE PLAY" (if, of course, one has unlocked this; it's a rather easy spot to figure out, screenshot desired ^_~). Once the lifebar and timer have appeared, I wait for the reflection of the tail to appear in the puddles on the ground, then I fire the Rocket and move to the right side of the screen, in about the same position. I hold the shot button so as to damage the remaining left wing, for the Rocket, if fired properly, will destroy the right wing (speaking relatively to the boss). Naturally, I get out of the way, escaping to the right, when the thing is about to kamikaze me. I point my helicopter to the left and hold the fire button, waiting for it to retreat back up the screen, then fire on the wing again until it is sparking badly, then follow the nose until it's sparking as well. By this time, the Rocket ought to have recharged. Now for the fun part: flying up into the boss's face from the left side and releasing the Option so that it immediately explodes on the boss. If this is too dangerous, one might consider simply firing the rocket at the boss, or firing it slightly to the left, but straight ahead in angle, so that it will try to move to the right to lock on and explode on the boss instead. Now that the front of the boss is destroyed, it will turn around, and approximately 50-52 seconds should be left on the timer. I weaken first one engine, then the other, so that there is very little health left and a single Rocket rammed into either engine will destroy the boss for good. I only fire as long as it takes to charge another rocket unless absolutely necessary so as to maximise the time remaining on the counter. Upwards of 45 seconds remaining is possible; I average 43-45. I don't remember my best time, but it may have been something like 47 seconds.


Last edited by TLB on Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:21 am 


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Stage 1 Walkthrough

Disclaimer: These are my personal methods or methods I'm aware of. They work for me. If you've got a way that you believe to be better, go ahead and post it and I'll consider adding it as an alternate strategy!
I also still need screenshots! :)


First Third (up to bunker and tank)
Stage 1-1 begins with your helicopter flying over a valley or canyon, then coming up to the cliff and the first enemies of the game. You begin with the default Vulcan option. I always move to the left edge of the screen, fire the Option just as the tanks are about to come into view, and immediately swing over to the right side. I "tickle" the two rightmost tanks so that I get the extra 10 points (really not necessary at all, it's just something I do) before the Vulcan aligns with them. I then go back to the left side, shoot one stream of main gun fire into the artillery shell (all of these shells count for contribution), hit it a bit more, and fire the Vulcan again. I then vertically align with and "tickle" the weapon carrier that has appeared on the right until it's sparking very badly (practice will teach you when to stop), then watch and wait for the Vulcan to finish off everything in its path.I then align with the trucks to the far right so as to allow the Vulcan to destroy them, while taking out the remaining tanks coming down the road with my own shot. Depending on what the weapon carrier dropped, I'll kill the second artillery shell with the Option (always), and kill everything else with either the Vulcan or my own shot. I always take the Rocket, but if I have time to launch another Vulcan before picking up the Rocket, I do.

Kill the helicopters that enter the screen, kill the artillery shell with a Rocket, paste the popcorn with shot. Very simple. Once I cross the road, however, I position my helicopter so that I'm on the right side of the screen, pointing diagonally left to destroy the guard tower as it appears on the screen. I immediately straighten out or align 45 degrees to the right so as to crush the helicopters as they appear. Now I straighten out and hold shot so as to destroy all the tanks prior to the bunker as they appear without killing any of the tanks appearing at the top of the screen. Once everything before the bunker is dead, I ready a rocket and sit in the left side of the screen, in between the fire from the tanks on the right side. As the huge tank exits the bunker, I point my helicopter to the right and launch the rocket so as to crush the huge tank. If properly timed, it will destroy all five tanks and the crates next to the bunker.

Second Third (up to fourth artillery shell)
Now I point diagonally to the left and crush the three tanks that appear on the left of the screen, then stop shooting, move to the right of the screen, and wait for the Rocket to recharge. I then time firing by waiting until the small tank is about to exit the trees so as not to miss it, firing from a position above and slightly behind the crates so as to direct the Option straight for the green truck. This will destroy everything and award full points. Immediately after firing the rocket, I shoot the barrel and crates that are now at the left side of the screen, then continue firing so as to weaken the weapon carrier that will appear. Once it's sufficiently weakened, I wait for the Rocket to finish reloading and throw it diagonally and to the right so as to make sure it fires at the guard tower, destroying it, the two tanks that appeared next to it, and the weapon carrier at the same time. I then spray down the three tanks that rolled out under the weapon carrier, sit on top of the rightmost tank until it exits the trees, then the other tank, then let the Rocket charge and destroy the artillery shell. Naturally, I keep the Rocket, picking up the proper powerup when practical, and I almost always just shoot the weapon carrier that appeared with the regular shot and take the bomb.


Last Third (up to BOSS)
Now that those items are taken care of, I use the shot, spraying diagonally up and to the left, and destroy all the tanks until there is sufficient room to charge a Rocket. Once the Rocket is charged, I fire it at the small crates inside the artillery cannon's trench, so as to destroy the four tanks on the left, the crates, and the artillery shell. Every so often, the top tank of the three under the cannon will also explode, but normally I just kill all five remaining tanks, the barrels, and the crates with my shot. I then wait for the four small helicopters to appear, firing straight ahead where the rightmost one will appear. I kill them all, simple. I then fly up to the left corner, killing the truck in the top left on the way, and kill the tank that comes out of the building on the left, then the right, then the left again, then I charge a Rocket. I fire the rocket so that it will hit either the truck or the barrels and destroy the tower, the car, the tank, and the truck/barrel, for a total of around 1000(x2) points. No one needs to tell anyone how to kill the next six helicopters, but the seventh may pose a challenge...


Last edited by TLB on Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:50 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:21 am 


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(Stage 2 Walkthrough to go here)


Last edited by TLB on Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:21 am 


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(Stage 3 Walkthrough to go here)


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:22 am 


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(Stage 4 Walkthrough to go here)


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:22 am 


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Stage 5 NMNB Walkthrough

This does not include the boss.

Resources:

Survival-oriented footage of 1-5 (solid, basic strategies)

Point extraction-oriented 1-5 replay

(coming eventually)




frankly, a guide by someone else would be some good variety


Last edited by TLB on Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:42 am 


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(At the request of BER, Loop 2 Advice will be here)


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:39 am 


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Cool!
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:53 am 


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^_^ This is actually a lot of fun. I'm working on stage strats and how to organize them in between classes. If Icarus neglects Ibara too long, I may just write the treatise for that, too, though it's going to be easily 60% plain copy-pasting, mainly from Icarus himself. And many boss/stage strats are going to be completely unoriginal, as well :) But hey, I love the games, they're 2/3 of my favorites (DOJ being the other...I'm so masochistic >_>), and no one's writing for them, so I might as well spend some of my spare time doing something constructive and helpful.

Cool!
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:56 pm 


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Good job!
Keep up the great work. :)

I hate the idea of getting more points when you lost more lives. So if you´re on a boss, have all 2 lives left and no bomb, just get yourself killed shortly before destroying the boss... so you are rewarded twice: you become more points for the Life Count Multiplier and the bonus for 3 bombs. Sometimes I don´t understand what shmup developers are thinking. ^^
However suiding is no option for me, I already hate it that the game gives you no extends. :(

Maybe I should do a strategy guide for Zero Gunner 2 since it´s one of my personal favourites. ;)
There´s also not much for this game here except for some detailed scoring/milking areas that Rob has written down.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:57 pm 


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Thanks! Yeah, I don't usually kill myself for points either, unless I'm really bored, but it's there for those who want to try it ^_~

New sections up: Stage 1 Walkthrough is finished, Boss 1 Strategy finished.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:24 pm 


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I think it should be emphasized that the double suicide at the start is worth only 40,000 per stage when the world record is 7.5 million.

It seems that for a lot of games, people will use some relatively insignificant things as excuses not to play, while simultaneously playing other games with fundamentally unbalanced ideas such as game-long chaining.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:37 pm 


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I think that's a very good point. I'll be sure to add something about how it's only worth 200k per loop next time I'm at a computer. The first stage is worth more than that, counting end-of-stage bonuses. The fifth stage is worth over a million, if this puts things into any more perspective (!)
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:47 pm 


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m3tall1ca wrote:
I think that's a very good point. I'll be sure to add something about how it's only worth 200k per loop next time I'm at a computer.


The thing is, it actually works out to be less than that. Double-suiciding during the first stage boss radically drops the rank in stages 2 and 3, which removes quite a hefty number of smaller enemies (that in most cases can be worked into 2x scoring). I'd estimate that the overall difference in score between a "perfect" no miss run and a "perfect" double-suicide run is around 350,000.

People really need to accept that unless you're going for the world record, there's absolutely no need to utilize the double-suicide mechanic. A score over 7 million can be obtained on a No Miss run.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:01 pm 


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Excellent points, Enhasa and Kiken. I hate seeing the double-suicide bonus blown out of all proportion.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:45 am 


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Guide updated and I credited Bill, for some reason. Probably because he's so hot.

Good point, Kiken. Although I have a question: I've noticed that fewer enemies appear, but I also clearly recall there being lots of bullets fired a lot more frequently, what say you to this?
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:30 am 


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Cool, I didn't know there was a start thread for Under Defeat. Nice work! I just watched Kiken's Loop 1 clear and it was sort of a revelation. I've been trying to use the canon by softening enemies up and then letting the canon go to work on them, but it's so much more to juggle. I get fewer points and end up with more bullets on the screen.


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:19 pm 


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I just went and tried a few games using just the missiles and I remembered why I stayed away from it except for bosses: it whiffs so much. How do you keep the missiles from missing sometimes when the screen is scrolling in an odd direction. Hell sometimes it misses even when it's scrolling forward. And this is with a lock on. Is there some trick to prevent that?


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:37 pm 


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Well, I couldn't say for sure unless I saw what was happening, but at first you really do have to pay good attention to how you launch a rocket. The best way, basically, is to have it planned in such a way that it'll consistently strike, 100% of the time. That's why it's generally more of an expert's weapon, as the player will know the stages like the back of...you get it.

Other things to look out for are pushing the option out of the way yourself with your helicopter. Great way to eff up a rocket. Sometimes if you wait too long to launch it, the option won't be able to keep a lock as it flies off the screen, too.

I don't know whether I mentioned it in the first post, but paying good attention to the red crosshairs and knowing their dynamics is pretty necessary to rocking the game's ass. A good tip is to make sure you've got a very good alignment and lock before firing the rocket at all, though you've said you're having trouble anyway.


I'll add whatever looks good next time I'm at a computer. Probably a "Having trouble with the Rocket?" section under Misc.

Any other questions or specific shit, feel free to keep asking :)
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:59 pm 


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m3tall1ca wrote:
Good point, Kiken. Although I have a question: I've noticed that fewer enemies appear, but I also clearly recall there being lots of bullets fired a lot more frequently, what say you to this?


Because I haven't messed with the double-suicide very much, I can't confirm or deny this. Technically speaking, the enemy aggression should scale naturally with the rank.

dmauro wrote:
I've been trying to use the canon by softening enemies up and then letting the canon go to work on them, but it's so much more to juggle. I get fewer points and end up with more bullets on the screen.


I refer to this technique as "drilling". Much of it comes down to either timing (like the large cannons in stage 2 on the battle ship) or watching the level of damage (smaller enemies become susceptable to rocket splash damage once their turrets are destroyed). For the large cannons in stage 2, I end up counting in my head as I'm shooting. They can take a constant stream of fire for just over 5 seconds, so I count to myself: 1-1 Thousand, 2-1 Thousand, 3-1 Thousand, 4-1 Thousand, 5-1 STOP. This usually damages the large cannons enough so that a rocket hitting a nearby target will destroy them.


Also, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but randomly bombing during a level can be quite bad. Percentage-contribution enemies that get destroyed by a bomb will not be added to the stage-end tally. There is some leeway here though, as the initial release of a bomb (all the blue flack flying out the top of your chopper that clears the screen of bullets) does not count against you. Should you manage to kill a percentage-contribution enemy during these frames, you'll still be awarded the percentage (or 2x if you used an option pod). The bomb's duration actually lasts longer than the explosions travelling up the screen. There is another second or two of aftermath damage. If a percentage-contribution enemy is killed during this time, it will not be awarded, also anything killed by an option pod during these frames will not be awarded a 2x multiplier. So use bombs mindfully on the first loop.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:41 pm 


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A stage 3 tidbit I noticed tonight (finally got a DC again, back to UD!) Killing the midboss quickly will spawn a bunch of carrier choppers and a heavy attack chopper.

It seems to go (slowest) no choppers -> 1 carrier -> 2 carriers -> 2 carriers + heavy -> 3 carriers + heavy (that's as fast as I've done it... maybe you can get a fourth carrier, judging by the pattern's development?).

The lower two carriers are probably common knowledge, and pretty easy to get, but the additonal heavy in the middle lets you link all three for a x2. Since the carriers are worth 3000 points apiece, and the heavy chopper 2000, plus 5000 points for the powerups each drops, it's a pretty nice scoring opportunity. Killing the midboss quickly enough to get the additional enemies probably means sacrificing x2s on few of its 1000pt turrets, but it seems worth it.

I've got a pretty reliable technique for the 3xcarrier+heavy spawn. Nail the midboss' central turret with a rocket as soon as it pulls onscreen, then tap-doge along with it while drilling the same turret. As soon as the next rocket is ready, you should be able to crash it into the turret for a 2x kill.

EDIT: yep, you can get four carriers. found out this evening, after accidentally killing the midboss with the main shot. Doubt I'd be able to get both the 2x and all five bonus enemies, at least not with the rocket option.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:40 pm 


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Bumping because people are spreading misinformation about suiciding for scoring.

Suiciding twice early in the game yields a maximum of ~350k by the end of the game. There are over 7.6 million points in the game. Suiciding is not necessary (or encouraged, unless you can score 7.2M).
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:45 pm 


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Waiting on tips for Stage 5 Boss. Could never get it right on the DC and still can't now.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:56 am 


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Stage 5 walkthrough: updated infrastructure.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:23 pm 


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TLB wrote:
Stage 5 NMNB Walkthrough

This does not include the boss.

Resources:

Survival-oriented footage of 1-5 (solid, basic strategies)

Point extraction-oriented 1-5 replay

(coming eventually)


Is the first version in the scoring video the DC version?

The amount of slowdown on that Final boss makes it so much easier than the 360 version. It's running at about 1/4 speed for most of the fight.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:21 pm 


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The HD version is the one with all of the extra slowdown.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:40 pm 


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iconoclast wrote:
The HD version is the one with all of the extra slowdown.


It certainly doesn't run like the slowest (1st version in the scoring run comparison video) on my copy. The only time you get any slowdown is if you destroy a gun with a option, and it's very temporary. Unless that video is in some way inaccurately captured, the first video must be the DC version because it is almost running in slow-motion non-stop..

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmoUUJek2ZA is the video I'm talking about.

The first version played is ultra slow (unbelievably so), the HD version is absolutely nothing like that. The HD version runs full speed 90% of the time. The second version looks far more like what I get playing the 360HD version and that's why I assume that it is.

Edit2: Although I have to admit that the texturing in the first vid looks like the HD version, but the idea that those two guns that sweep the screen run as slow as that video supposedly shows is just an utterly false impression. When I play they run very smooth and at a high framerate, exactly as seen in the second video. (hence why I assumed that was the HD version). Similarly when the boss is moving to his third stage and the turret is rotating around, the video is still suffering slowdown. Whilst I know the turret takes a while to rotate, it's not that slow and the framerate is much better in the HD version that what is shown.

Something very odd going on there. Maybe the computer used to compile the vids bogged down or something while they were being made?
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:30 pm 


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The first part in the video is HD, second part the Dreamcast version. Dreamcast definitely doesn't have slowdown at this boss (besides temporary slowdown from explosions or rocket usage). Can't tell about the HD version though.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Under Defeat (WIP)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:46 pm 


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Battletoad wrote:
The first part in the video is HD, second part the Dreamcast version. Dreamcast definitely doesn't have slowdown at this boss (besides temporary slowdown from explosions or rocket usage). Can't tell about the HD version though.


Well it certainly doesn't have the slowdown shown in this video. It plays pretty much like the DC version in that vid. The sweeping turrets run identically with no slowdown, that's by far the most notable difference between my copy and what the video apparently shows. I play on a J-360 slim.

I'd like to know more about the video itself though because I can't believe it's meant to be playing like that, and I think the slowdown may be from the video capture rather than on the game itself.

As I say, the difference is so completely night and day that something odd is going on somewhere.
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