Another shmup stick debate

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:19 am

Ok, im on the fence. I have a custom stick with all Happ. The Happ comp is great for fighters no doubt, and i love competition buttons. The buttons are perfect for me on both genres but off course the stick is not right for shooters. I could replace my Happ with an Ultimarc Mag stick which would fit perfect. Damocles a member here i know praised them. What are thoughts on the stick i mentioned and the two big Japanese manufactures on a good shmup stick?

BTW GP did you mention in and earlier post you got your first 1cc on a Jlf playing Ibara?

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:55 am

I thought the Mag-Stik had mounting screw holes in the Seimitsu/Sanwa spacing and not in the Happ...?

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:24 pm

captpain wrote:I thought the Mag-Stik had mounting screw holes in the Seimitsu/Sanwa spacing and not in the Happ...?

It does, but i meant the panel thickness

poodude · Post by **poodude** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:32 pm

Can't go wrong with the Seimitsu LS-32.

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Sun May 03, 2009 3:26 am

Well i broke down and got a TE stick yesterday. The stick was beyond my expectations, very solid indeed. Now i can try a LS 32. I still want some feedback on the Magstick though. I think i might try them all.

corbie · Post by **corbie** » Mon May 04, 2009 8:32 am

First thing I did with my Egret 2 cabinet was remove the Sanwa JLF stick and swap in a Seimitsu LS-32. I love it. For me it's the best shmup stick out there.

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Mon May 04, 2009 9:45 am

corbie wrote:First thing I did with my Egret 2 cabinet was remove the Sanwa JLF stick and swap in a Seimitsu LS-32. I love it. For me it's the best shmup stick out there.

Yes, this is what I thought as well, but now I've tested Suzo Inductive. The precision is unreal almost. Unfortunately, they are huge and won't fit into an EGRET II panel without some very serious modding to both panel and joystick.

Has anyone tried the Sanwa Flash (no longer produced)?

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:33 am

another vote for the LS-32.

are sanwa flash sticks the optical ones that don't produce any clicking? i don't think i could be dealing with that

as always, it's just personal preference. if you can afford it, just buy a bunch, and see what you prefer. for myself, i use a seimitsu LS-32 and sanwa buttons. the LS-32 is great for shooters, and quite good for fighters. whereas the JLF is better than the LS-32 for fighters, but much weaker for shmups. so it's a bit of a compromise, and same logic again with regards to using sanwa buttons

lawnspic wrote: BTW GP did you mention in and earlier post you got your first 1cc on a Jlf playing Ibara?

if GP is gaijinpunch, i would be surprised if he's played more than 5 credits on ibara, ever

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:15 pm

jpj wrote:another vote for the LS-32.

are sanwa flash sticks the optical ones that don't produce any clicking? i don't think i could be dealing with that

Yes, Sanwa Flash are optical. See also Happ Perfect 360's. Apparently, it was Happ that made the PCB's for the Sanwa Flash sticks. Suzo Inductive use a magnetic field. No clickety click. And unless you are hot tempered and yank it from it's socket, it's likely to survive any japanese switch based stick. "A Suzo stick is a joy forever."

jpj wrote:as always, it's just personal preference. if you can afford it, just buy a bunch, and see what you prefer. for myself, i use a seimitsu LS-32 and sanwa buttons. the LS-32 is great for shooters, and quite good for fighters. whereas the JLF is better than the LS-32 for fighters, but much weaker for shmups. so it's a bit of a compromise, and same logic again with regards to using sanwa buttons

I never play fighters anymore. Just shmups = no need to compromise. However, I tip my top hat to you kind sir, as you seem able to "take care of yourself" in the fighting arena.

If I however play classic games like, Ninja Kid II, I almost immediately start cursing and blaming the short throw/fast engage of the stick as that game uses "joy up" for weapon selection and is way too easy to trigger when playing with Seimitsus. Some games really suffer from fast engage.

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:12 pm

Here is my opinion on what i have so far.

1. I love the the Happ competition for fighers better than the JLF (could be because i dislike the square gate)

2. Sanwa buttons are nice but i prefer the stiffer springs and clickiness of the Happ buttons. I would prefer these buttons for shmups and fighters no doubt.

3. Both the Sanwa and the Happ sticks suck for shmups hands down, though the Sanwa would be my choice if i had to choose between them.

I dont have a Seimitsu stick or buttons yet to compare but thats in the works.

I have to add that love those Happ buttons, the Sanwa's are hair trigger responsive but return like mush. For button mashing they are terrible.

Gotta get me a GT-Y octogate, LS-32 (w/circular gate) and a Magstick from Ultimarc and i should be set. BTW i have no interest in in Seimitsu buttons even though i have not tried them.

mistcore · Post by **mistcore** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:08 am

I get the idea that the general opinion on sticks is that Seimitsu is better than Sanwa for shmups.
However, what exactly is it that makes a Seimitsu optimal for shmups?

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:46 am

the seimitsu's are slightly shorter, and with a thicker shaft (that's what she said), so they are somewhat stiffer (this is too easy), so it's not as good for fighters where you need to perform quarter-circle movements ala street fighter. but they register directions quicker and with less movement. so in shmups, where you're regularly making lots of tiny movements, they're very good

hope that made sense

emphatic wrote:I tip my top hat to you kind sir, as you seem able to "take care of yourself" in the fighting arena.

say what?

yojo! · Post by **yojo!** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:24 am

lawnspic wrote:Well i broke down and got a TE stick yesterday. The stick was beyond my expectations, very solid indeed.

What's TE ?

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:38 am

yojo! wrote:
lawnspic wrote:Well i broke down and got a TE stick yesterday. The stick was beyond my expectations, very solid indeed.
What's TE ?

Street Fighter IV Tournament Edition Fightstick (Features all Sanwa components)

mistcore · Post by **mistcore** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:44 am

jpj wrote:the seimitsu's are slightly shorter, and with a thicker shaft (that's what she said), so they are somewhat stiffer (this is too easy), so it's not as good for fighters where you need to perform quarter-circle movements ala street fighter. but they register directions quicker and with less movement. so in shmups, where you're regularly making lots of tiny movements, they're very good hope that made sense

Thanks, it makes too much sense now.
I wish I could decide easily on what stick I should mod my second stick with.
My first stick is modded with all Sanwa parts, and I'm still not sure if I want all Seimitsu parts for my second stick since I play both fighters and shmups.
If I were the only person using those sticks, it'd be easy. But since my roommate will be using them as well...
I suppose I'll have to decide on that one for myself.

yojo! · Post by **yojo!** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:35 am

What's the best place to get Seimitsu LS-32 ? Lizardlick is closed until further notice and all the ebay ones are from china...

mistcore · Post by **mistcore** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:36 am

Dunno about the best, but I'm just shooting out links for you:
http://www.akihabarashop.jp/ (Located in Japan)
http://gamingnow.net/default.aspx (Located in West Coast)
http://www.modchipman.com/ (Located in Illinois)

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:55 am

Or www.Arcadeshop.de (located in Germany)

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:56 am

it's a bit of a myth that sanwas are better for fighters..
i have a cab with semitsu on one side and sanwa on the other.. i can pull off dragon punches 10/10 with semitsui and about 7/10 with a sanwa ..
i guess it's all personal preference.

i REALLY want to try a suzo for shooters as i think semitsus have a bit too much space before the shaft stops dead when tap dodging

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:17 am

charlie chong wrote:i REALLY want to try a suzo for shooters as i think semitsus have a bit too much space before the shaft stops dead when tap dodging

Yes, it's an almost unreal feeling to play shmups with the Suzo Inductive. The stick returns to center superquick and without "tipping" over to the other direction. The spring is _H_U_G_E_ btw.

Haven't tried the 500's (which in fact are microswitch based anyway), but they look like they'd fit into a japanese panel without much hassle.

On the downside, my rather fresh Seimitsu's now feel like Sanwas that's been installed for years in comparison.

Edit: Here's some clips of the Suzo's:

Suzo Universal STC 500: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPUTQaNZ ... re=related

Suzo Universal Inductive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv8-MNv5 ... %3C/div%3E

cools · Post by **cools** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:05 pm

I've got 500's on my MVS cab, though I've not had a chance to use them yet as the whole cab needs rebuilding + rewiring

What I like about the LS32 in comparison to the JLF and especially Suzo is the shaft length. On my Windy II there's about 10-15mm of shaft above the panel, which puts the ball right where my hands are comfortable for twitch play. The JLF has an extra 10mm or so, bringing it up to a level where rolls are comfortable.

The 500's have an extremely short throw compared to either the JLF or LS32, but the shaft is about twice the length. The spring is also very strong. I can't rest my hand on the panel and just use my fingertips and wrist to move the stick, I've got to use my whole arm.

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:04 pm

cools wrote:The 500's have an extremely short throw compared to either the JLF or LS32, but the shaft is about twice the length. The spring is also very strong. I can't rest my hand on the panel and just use my fingertips and wrist to move the stick, I've got to use my whole arm.

I solved that problem by mounting them 2 cm's below the panel:

yojo! · Post by **yojo!** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:08 pm

emphatic wrote: On the downside, my rather fresh Seimitsu's now feel like Sanwas that's been installed for years in comparison.

What do you mean ? that Seimitsus are poor quality and they lose their stiffness as time goes by ?

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:16 pm

yojo! wrote:
emphatic wrote: On the downside, my rather fresh Seimitsu's now feel like Sanwas that's been installed for years in comparison.

What do you mean ? that Seimitsus are poor quality and they lose their stiffness as time goes by ?

No, I mean that:
*Seimitsus have a harder spring than Sanwas, and thus a "tighter" feel.

*Comparing Seimitsus to Suzos however, makes the former feel like "the mouth of a tired dog" in comparison. Or a beat up Sanwa.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Wed May 06, 2009 5:06 am

Are there any ways of getting a Suzo into a console stick (without extensive modding) or are they mostly restricted to cabs?

LuckyDay · Post by **LuckyDay** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:11 am

Yeah I was just about to ask how the Suzo mounts.

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Wed May 06, 2009 8:25 am

Elixir wrote:Are there any ways of getting a Suzo into a console stick (without extensive modding) or are they mostly restricted to cabs?

I haven't gotten my hands on a Suzo 500 yet, so I haven't been able to compare sizes with Sanwa or Seimitu brand sticks, but the Suzo Inductive has a very large (high) box, sealing the PCB inside + it needs +5V to operate. That might give you some trouble with any factory made console sticks.

The base has a bump with a radius of about 50 mm (I'm just guessing, haven't measured) that the stick emerges from. You can't see it in my mounting, as I lowered the stick 2 cm to remove all issues I had with mounting. Sadly, candy cabs don't have as much space to do this.

Here's a picture of my mounting (Using Sanwa hole plugs to distance the Suzo from my panel, which of course is a terrible solution in the long run):

The largest screw holes match the Sanwa JLF plates, so fitting a Suzo 500 into an EGRET II for example *should* work. I'll probably try this when I've gathered some funds to get myself a 1L5B panel to fit it into.

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:37 am

Yeah those Suzo's are very tight and responsive from what i gather. I think Bloodflowers fancy's them as well. I remeber him speaking of them as the best shmup stick in his opinion.

admith · Post by **admith** » Thu May 07, 2009 8:48 am

The SUZO 500 is the best stick for shmups in my opinion too.

Here you can see how we mounted it in a wooden box (look specially at the second pic):

http://www.alvarezeninternet.com/Ikarug ... index.html

Hibachi · Post by **Hibachi** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:06 am

admith wrote:The SUZO 500 is the best stick for shmups in my opinion too.

Here you can see how we mounted it in a wooden box (look specially at the second pic):

http://www.alvarezeninternet.com/Ikarug ... index.html

That is awesome.

Can you make something like that for an Xbox 360?

shmups.system11.org

Another shmup stick debate

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