Now I'm not the most tech savvy cat, but if DVDs hold more data and upload information faster I would have to think that would make a difference in the way a game looks and runs. The likely reason that Taito excluded TATE probably has to do with the fact that the game would have ran like garbage in it, so they did the best they could with CD-rom. Now, had they consider DVD-rom (which they probably didn't since they have always used CDs for shooters and in their minds wasn't worth it) they could have done a more competent port, even if the frame rate wasn't improved. Perhaps I'm assuming a lot, but that's my theory at least.bloodflowers wrote:Putting it on DVD would have made precisely zero difference to the in-game frame rate.
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Re: cd/dvd
Not with a game that loads data in between stages. Loading times would have been reduced, but the bigger storage space wouldn´t have helped in any way. Modern 3d games with large worlds are data intensive, they need to use streaming technology to be able to display everything, and in those cases the DVD medium can influence the way a game looks and runs. Not in a shmup. The game doesn´t even use half the data space of a CD, probably.Now I'm not the most tech savvy cat, but if DVDs hold more data and upload information faster I would have to think that would make a difference in the way a game looks and runs.
I just got mine today and I've been playing it for an hour or so (I had to give Dragon Blaze some time as well).
I don't see any problem with the frame rate - It seems smooth to me, and no jerkiness that I can detect.
It is, however, hard to see stuff sometimes because the screen is so small and there's so much going on. Tate mode would have improved the playability as well as the aesthetics.
I like that some of the sound effects are the same as GW1, especially the robotic "OTAY" which cuts through the other sounds to let you know you can reflect again. The sounds give the game some continuity with its predecessors.
That's my 2 cents.
I don't see any problem with the frame rate - It seems smooth to me, and no jerkiness that I can detect.
It is, however, hard to see stuff sometimes because the screen is so small and there's so much going on. Tate mode would have improved the playability as well as the aesthetics.
I like that some of the sound effects are the same as GW1, especially the robotic "OTAY" which cuts through the other sounds to let you know you can reflect again. The sounds give the game some continuity with its predecessors.
That's my 2 cents.
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MadSteelDarkness
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MadSteelDarkness
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^Just kidding, of course...
Although GWG's port is about as shoddy as you can get, the game itself has pulled me back time and time again. Deep down, it's a lot of fun.
It's sad, really. I would have gladly waited another year or more for a good port, even on the next generation of hardware. Ah, well...
Although GWG's port is about as shoddy as you can get, the game itself has pulled me back time and time again. Deep down, it's a lot of fun.
It's sad, really. I would have gladly waited another year or more for a good port, even on the next generation of hardware. Ah, well...
It might have made it worse - the bigger the screen the bigger the steps in movement (and thus the more obvious 30fps becomes). My TV is big enough to give the same size image that tate on a 20" would give - the 30fps is painfully evident. I'll mirror what MadSteelDarkness said though - the gameplay is clearly there. Makes a nice change from nothing but Psikyo and Cave.sffan wrote: It is, however, hard to see stuff sometimes because the screen is so small and there's so much going on. Tate mode would have improved the playability as well as the aesthetics.
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PsikyoPshumpPshooterP
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the disc was making my ps2 sound like a fucken tornado..and gosh, it just seems so unplayable..like the slowdown in Donpachi on the saturn version on the 3rd or 4th stage..but afterwhile, i got used to it..cant imagine how any1 can throw 60 bucks for this game still though
The cave whore count in this thread is unbelievable!!!
I have to say, this game would have rocked the house in TATE.
And not just from a vertical shooter fan's (or a Gigawing fan's) perspective. I mean the game would actually be more playable.
Since the Arcade/Original modes scale everything to fit the screen, your fighter craft, and all other enemy craft, are bite-size. (I'd go out on a limb and say that the player craft in GWG is smaller than DoDonPachi's, but I don't have the PSX or Saturn DDP on hand to make that comparison.) As a result, the Reflect Force gauge/player score really get in the way moreso than usual. In the previous two GW games your ship was noticeably larger and more distinguishable from the HUD. It got in the way sometimes, but you still had a general idea of where you were, and where your hit center was. In GWG though, basically your whole ship is covered by the letters "RF"...think of it as though the HUD was scaled down 1/3, everything else was scaled down by half. Not the best estimate, but the one that seems to fit at the moment.
That, aside from the framerate problems which for the most part ruin Original Mode display (bullet-hoarding was much more effective), is my main gripe with the game, just the simple fact that in a lot of instances, it's very easy to lose track of exactly where you are on the screen. The fact that your hitbox is friggin' microscopic makes up for that somewhat (LOADS of times where I was sure I'd died but just kept on shootin') but yeah. Upon playing you'll also notice that while the bullet patterns are plentiful and tight, they aren't that much tighter than the previous two GW games. So that explains in a sense why a lot of people are calling this game easy. Hell if Mars Matrix's Mosquitos was 2/3 of it's original size with 2/3 of it's original hitbox, then that game would be easy too.
I will say however that, unless I'm mistaken, the fact that Takumi took the Mars Matrix route and made hovering over flying enemies perfectly safe (bulletspam withstanding, of course) is the best improvement they could have done with the series. The Point-Blanking takes a bit of getting used to, and even then it's still more of a game of getting as much medals as humanly possible. This includes trying for that 100% kill rate since now your shots dispense medals as well...also means that while boss-milking can still be done to an extent, you now have to kill the sumbitch to get more medals (all enemy fire onscreen turning to medals when the boss dies)...being a Ruby player on GW1 I found it VERY nice that the Robin's speed allows you to swoop down and nab medals that have already passed you by quite a ways...
There is something else, and this is probably most likely due to Capcom's absense. There are no characters, no cutscenes, no face to go along with your ship. I dunno, just something you haveta get used to, you can't shake the feeling though that the game feels a bit generic in presentation.
All that aside, on a gameplay perspective this game is nucking futs. And when it comes to the GW franchise, the more insane the better. So at least they got THAT part right.
Overall the game isn't THAT broken to the point where playing it is a chore ('sup Night Raid) so my copy won't be going on the Trading Forum...but while playing, it just made me want to try the TYPE-X arcade version, which given the state of the port, seems to be GWG's purest form.
And not just from a vertical shooter fan's (or a Gigawing fan's) perspective. I mean the game would actually be more playable.
Since the Arcade/Original modes scale everything to fit the screen, your fighter craft, and all other enemy craft, are bite-size. (I'd go out on a limb and say that the player craft in GWG is smaller than DoDonPachi's, but I don't have the PSX or Saturn DDP on hand to make that comparison.) As a result, the Reflect Force gauge/player score really get in the way moreso than usual. In the previous two GW games your ship was noticeably larger and more distinguishable from the HUD. It got in the way sometimes, but you still had a general idea of where you were, and where your hit center was. In GWG though, basically your whole ship is covered by the letters "RF"...think of it as though the HUD was scaled down 1/3, everything else was scaled down by half. Not the best estimate, but the one that seems to fit at the moment.
That, aside from the framerate problems which for the most part ruin Original Mode display (bullet-hoarding was much more effective), is my main gripe with the game, just the simple fact that in a lot of instances, it's very easy to lose track of exactly where you are on the screen. The fact that your hitbox is friggin' microscopic makes up for that somewhat (LOADS of times where I was sure I'd died but just kept on shootin') but yeah. Upon playing you'll also notice that while the bullet patterns are plentiful and tight, they aren't that much tighter than the previous two GW games. So that explains in a sense why a lot of people are calling this game easy. Hell if Mars Matrix's Mosquitos was 2/3 of it's original size with 2/3 of it's original hitbox, then that game would be easy too.
I will say however that, unless I'm mistaken, the fact that Takumi took the Mars Matrix route and made hovering over flying enemies perfectly safe (bulletspam withstanding, of course) is the best improvement they could have done with the series. The Point-Blanking takes a bit of getting used to, and even then it's still more of a game of getting as much medals as humanly possible. This includes trying for that 100% kill rate since now your shots dispense medals as well...also means that while boss-milking can still be done to an extent, you now have to kill the sumbitch to get more medals (all enemy fire onscreen turning to medals when the boss dies)...being a Ruby player on GW1 I found it VERY nice that the Robin's speed allows you to swoop down and nab medals that have already passed you by quite a ways...
There is something else, and this is probably most likely due to Capcom's absense. There are no characters, no cutscenes, no face to go along with your ship. I dunno, just something you haveta get used to, you can't shake the feeling though that the game feels a bit generic in presentation.
All that aside, on a gameplay perspective this game is nucking futs. And when it comes to the GW franchise, the more insane the better. So at least they got THAT part right.
Overall the game isn't THAT broken to the point where playing it is a chore ('sup Night Raid) so my copy won't be going on the Trading Forum...but while playing, it just made me want to try the TYPE-X arcade version, which given the state of the port, seems to be GWG's purest form.
I experience this too (Where the hell am I amidst all the chaos?). It's disorienting until I find myself again. But still, this game is very addicting and enjoyable. I feel sorry for those who cancelled their orders before giving it a chance.Skyline wrote: in a lot of instances, it's very easy to lose track of exactly where you are on the screen.
On the framerate issue. Yesterday I credit-fed a little so I could see further on, and the action in the later levels is TRULY manic-insane. The number of objects on the screen is mind-boggling! I could almost see why they needed to cut every other frame to handle those levels. Probably not necessary for the first couple of levels alone, but for the whole game - yeah.
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BulletMagnet
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I believe that GW2 already adopted that feature.Skyline wrote:I will say however that, unless I'm mistaken, the fact that Takumi took the Mars Matrix route and made hovering over flying enemies perfectly safe (bulletspam withstanding, of course) is the best improvement they could have done with the series.
Nah, I'm pretty sure you can crash into ships in GW2.
Alright, so I finally got GWG today. I love it, I'm happy to report.
-Loading times. I don't feel like they're unusually long. It's easy to have patience with great games.
-Frame rate. Noticeable immediately, but adapted within minutes and doesn't effect playability for me save for a few patterns where fast bullet clumps are shot out (5th boss?). It just looks really weird. Most bullets are moving slow enough to where it doesn't really matter. But GW1/2 had some bullet visibility issues, which I don't think this game has.
-Control is smooth. Complain about the frame rate, but it controls perfectly. No choppy movements.
-Didn't have any problems with the numbers popping up, medals or charge meter.
-Graphics generally look above average, but the bullets and medals steal the show most of the time. Patterns get Psyvariar-ish towards the end.
-Score attack does something a bit different this time. Instead of another multiplier the multiplier is increasing automatically at all times.
As for how it feels compared to the other GWs: a little more frantic. Love the point blank emphasis and the constant downpour of medals. Ships power-up very fast. Max power is had almost immediately, while that took a complete stage or two in the last few games. The fact that there's so little slowdown feels great surprisingly, debatably worth the frame rate tradeoff. It's really fun and feels even more arcadey thanks to no story and dialogue.
Anyone know what the multiplier maxes out as?
Alright, so I finally got GWG today. I love it, I'm happy to report.
-Loading times. I don't feel like they're unusually long. It's easy to have patience with great games.
-Frame rate. Noticeable immediately, but adapted within minutes and doesn't effect playability for me save for a few patterns where fast bullet clumps are shot out (5th boss?). It just looks really weird. Most bullets are moving slow enough to where it doesn't really matter. But GW1/2 had some bullet visibility issues, which I don't think this game has.
-Control is smooth. Complain about the frame rate, but it controls perfectly. No choppy movements.
-Didn't have any problems with the numbers popping up, medals or charge meter.
-Graphics generally look above average, but the bullets and medals steal the show most of the time. Patterns get Psyvariar-ish towards the end.
-Score attack does something a bit different this time. Instead of another multiplier the multiplier is increasing automatically at all times.
As for how it feels compared to the other GWs: a little more frantic. Love the point blank emphasis and the constant downpour of medals. Ships power-up very fast. Max power is had almost immediately, while that took a complete stage or two in the last few games. The fact that there's so little slowdown feels great surprisingly, debatably worth the frame rate tradeoff. It's really fun and feels even more arcadey thanks to no story and dialogue.
Anyone know what the multiplier maxes out as?
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Protein
Postman - You assume right, access ST6 through 1 Crediting. The ST6 Boss is easy; its mostly starting at bottom middle, moving in an arc round to far right or far left centre, charging up and repeat.
I got my copy today, but won't be playing 'til tomorrow - hope its not a disappointment after playing the Taito Type X Ver
Regs, DEL
Ps. Its good to read that people are agreeing with my previous comments about the game. I can't help but feel that BEFORE the PS2 release, several people were doubting & distrusting what I had to say.
I got my copy today, but won't be playing 'til tomorrow - hope its not a disappointment after playing the Taito Type X Ver
Regs, DEL
Ps. Its good to read that people are agreeing with my previous comments about the game. I can't help but feel that BEFORE the PS2 release, several people were doubting & distrusting what I had to say.
After playing it a bit more (I don't know, 10 hours total), I think it feels like some kind of Takumi melting pot. The point blanking is pretty Mars Matrix, bullet patterns often look more taken from Mars Matrix than either Giga Wing (ex. stage 4 boss, 1st pattern of second form looks like a pattern from the final boss of Mars Matrix). Stage 4 reminds me of stage 5 from Mars Matrix, with the sheer amount of gold flying everywhere. Stage 5 looks like Night Raid. I think that's the best they could for that homage.
Haven't noticed any bullet flicker at all, and I've been using Original. ?
Oh yeah, and I just can't imagine playing this game in arcade mode. Hate the panning. Original was exactly what I was hoping it would be. I just wish it was designed in complete 4:3 with a slightly larger ship (patterns on the 5th boss are where this really becomes a bit difficult).
Haven't noticed any bullet flicker at all, and I've been using Original. ?
Oh yeah, and I just can't imagine playing this game in arcade mode. Hate the panning. Original was exactly what I was hoping it would be. I just wish it was designed in complete 4:3 with a slightly larger ship (patterns on the 5th boss are where this really becomes a bit difficult).
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BulletMagnet
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I like the arcade mode with the left-right panning, and I play it more than "original" because it just feels more traditional. All the DonPachis had this, in fact all Cave verts have it, and most verts in general have it I think.BulletMagnet wrote:"Panning"...is that when the actual playfield is larger than what you see onscreen, and you can "scroll" the screen a bit if you move far enough left or right? If that's the case then maybe it's a term I need to add to the Glossary...Rob wrote:Hate the panning.
"Original" has the exact same graphics but shows it all at once, so the aspect ratio and ship size couldn't have been changed.
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Yeah maybe, not sure what else to call it. I don't get the point of it really. Why design a game in 3:4 if it's nearly as wide as 4:3, unless they're trying to cram a product in that space because those are the types of monitor setups arcade operators use. Can't stand not being able to see every active object at once, and the bullets feel like they're sliding around a bit. In games like Raiden it's the result of many hair pulling moments.BulletMagnet wrote:"Panning"...is that when the actual playfield is larger than what you see onscreen, and you can "scroll" the screen a bit if you move far enough left or right? If that's the case then maybe it's a term I need to add to the Glossary...Rob wrote:Hate the panning.
I think Cave is the only company still doing this really. I think it's more of an old school thing. Maybe so the games ported better to consoles, since they were hacking them up anyways.All the DonPachis had this, in fact all Cave verts have it, and most verts in general have it I think.
Yeah, that's why I'm thinking they should've just gone with tradition and made a game 15% (or whatever) wider. I think it would've made a little difference in ship size. Maybe? If only superficially and the hitbox stayed the same."Original" has the exact same graphics but shows it all at once, so the aspect ratio and ship size couldn't have been changed.
Nope. The only Takumi shmup (I don't really count Kyukyoku Tiger 2 Plus since it's more of a remix of another company's game) to feature hit detection with enemies is Giga Wing. Everything that came after (Mars Matrix, Giga Wing 2, Night Raid, Giga Wing Generations) has featured No Miss with enemies.Rob wrote:Nah, I'm pretty sure you can crash into ships in GW2.
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captain ahar
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BulletMagnet
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Gya ha ha haaa, I was right!Kiken wrote:Everything that came after (Mars Matrix, Giga Wing 2, Night Raid, Giga Wing Generations) has featured No Miss with enemies.
In any case, even if the term's not "official" methinks you can add "panning" to your list of coined shmup terms, Rob, right next to "wobble mode." I'll toss it onto the list next time I update.
I kind of suck at Giga Wing 1 though, seeing as how my score is about 30% of the records.