The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.

[XtraSmiley]

I'll keep my eyes peeled for you!

Don't keep us in suspense, how did the power supply affect things?

[rcoltrane]

I did not have time to put my hands on it yet, life is pretty busy right now. I think I will be able to do it this week. Will let you know here about the results ASAP.

Thanks
RC

[rcoltrane]

Ok, today I finally hooked the lines up to the Meanwell terminals and tested it disconnected from the supergun. After adjusting the +5v line, it gave me the following readings:

+5v -> 5.01
+12v -> 12.41
-5v -> -4.85

Are these readings ok? Since this is a brand new unit, I thought the readings would be closer to their default values, such as 12v being something around 12.00/12.10 and -5v being around -4.90/-5.00.

Now I don't have more time to keep working on this. Tomorrow I will try to plug it to the supergun and do a new test in the morning to see how the image behaves.

[XtraSmiley]

Ok, today I finally hooked the lines up to the Meanwell terminals and tested it disconnected from the supergun. After adjusting the +5v line, it gave me the following readings:

+5v -> 5.01
+12v -> 12.41
-5v -> -4.85

Are these readings ok? Since this is a brand new unit, I thought the readings would be closer to their default values, such as 12v being something around 12.00/12.10 and -5v being around -4.90/-5.00.

Now I don't have more time to keep working on this. Tomorrow I will try to plug it to the supergun and do a new test in the morning to see how the image behaves.

Yeah, it's close enough and you don't have a load on it anyway. Just start low on Pitfighter, say 4.80 and slowly move it up. Test the 5v from points on the PCB (not on the PSU) while it's plugged in and raise it until the picture is stable being careful not to go past say 5.2v.

I'd say with a new MW PSU if you're still getting the power fluctuations, it's either the SG or the PCB at fault.

[rcoltrane]

Ok, did a test today. Here are the good and bad news:

Th good news is that the new power supply is smaller and generates way less heat! And when lowering the power supply to the minimum possible voltages (+5v = 4.62, +12v = 11.93 and -5v = 4.57), my PCB still works fine and the image stabilyzes quicker now (around 30 minutes) with the correct colors. Just not centered on the TV screen (it starts off on the left side), but the game image keeps drifting very slowly to the right until its finally centered on the TV screen. Maybe the drifting occurs due to the fact that I had to enter the TV's service menu to 'force' the image to be centered, and every time I turn it on, the TV processor takes some time to get the image to where I want it to be. Or the supergun... or both! Who knows.

The bad news is that it's still happening. And if I let the +5v near 5.00, the image takes much more time to stabylize picture and colors. That's pretty weird but it is what it is.

I will try to do another test on next monday. I will raise the +5v to 5.00 and start the supergun with this voltage and try to calibrate the sync ampl / sync width on the Vogatek to get the correct image right out of the bat and see if the image stabylizes. Maybe the sync signals are way off and need a new calibration after swapping the power suply.

[rcoltrane]

Ok, did some more tests yesterday and here's what is happening: It is a power issue for sure. When I start the system, I figured out that I don't need to redo the Sync Ampl/Sync Width calibration on the Supergun (fortunately) but instead, I need to lower the power supply voltages to its minimum, and by doing this, I get the perfect image and everything works perfectly right out of the bat.

The problem is, after some time, the image starts to become slightly unstable and with incorrect colors. And by raising the voltage on the power supply just a little bit, the image goes back to normal again. After some more time, the image and colors starts to become unstable again and, by raising the voltage just a little bit, the image goes back to normal again, rinse and repeat. And it finally seems to stabilize for good when the voltage is raised up to 5.15v on the +5v rail and after more than an hour with the system turned on.

Conclusion: It seems that the Supergun or the PCB starts to asking for more power when heating up or something, and since both of them do not have a voltage regulator to calibrate things on the fly, I need to manually compensate the voltages from time to time.

[RGB]

Could you please measure the voltage at the PSU, supergun, and the PCB game (the edge of the PCB game)? Before ruling out the PSU it's best to check the actual JAMMA harness. Generic JAMMA harnesses often use faux AWG16-18 for power and just can't provide enough juice for the game. Check this out:

[XtraSmiley]

Good testing. I'd listen to RGB on this one. I seriously doubt it's the PSU b/c you just got it new AND you were having problems with the old PSU. It's clearly the PCB, SuperGun, or the JAMMA harness, if your using one.

[rcoltrane]

Ok, I did the measures today on those 3 locations and here are the results:

Meanwell power supply (at the top):
5v -> 5.02
12v -> 12.93
-5v -> 4.96


Vogatek supergun (tested on the Jamma cable connector pcb rails):
5v -> 4.83
12v -> 12.74
-5v -> -4.98


PCB rails:
5v -> 4.72
12v -> 12.69
-5v ~> -5.03

[XtraSmiley]

OK, can you eliminate the JAMMA harness and plug the SG right into the PCB to test? Just to see what your power levels are and if it will work directly.

[rcoltrane]

OK, can you eliminate the JAMMA harness and plug the SG right into the PCB to test? Just to see what your power levels are and if it will work directly.

Ok, did this test today plugging my supergun straight to the pcb connector and here are the results:

Voltages on Meanwell power supply:
5v -> 5.01
12v -> 12.92
-5v -> -4.96

Voltages on the pcb:
5v -> 4.85
12v -> 12.77
-5v -> -4.99

After those results, I raised the voltage on the Meanwell to make the 5v line to put 5.01 on the pcb:
5v -> Meanwell: 5.21 on PCB: 5.01
12v -> Meanwell: 13.45 on PCB: 13.31
-5v -> Meanwell: -5.18 on PCB: -5.21

And with these last voltages, with the supergun connected straight to the pcb totally bypassing the chinese jamma extension cable, the results remained exactly the same. When I turned the pcb on with these higher voltages, the image was messed up. And by lowering the voltages to the Meanwell minimum, the image stabilizes and everything works fine. And then I fall in that same cycle I explained in my previous post, where I have to raise the voltage a little bit from time to time to keep the image stabilized until it stabilizes for good after an hour or so. So I think the chinese jamma extension cable is good enough and is not the origin of the problem, it seems to be the supergun or the tv (or both maybe).

[XtraSmiley]

The Supergun OR the PCB itself!

So, grab a HAS (best SG ever made), or a cheap PCB of another game to test. Of course, Pit Fighter is a super cheap PCB, but shipping usually kills the deals on it!

Where are you located again? Any members here close to help test?

[rcoltrane]

The Supergun OR the PCB itself!

So, grab a HAS (best SG ever made), or a cheap PCB of another game to test. Of course, Pit Fighter is a super cheap PCB, but shipping usually kills the deals on it!

Where are you located again? Any members here close to help test?

No chance, I'm from Brazil LOL. Nobody will help me out around here Well, we tried. At least now I have a better and smaller power supply and I'm happy with it.

I will try another supergun made here in Brazil, which has component video output and is not that expensive. It will enhance the image quality on my current TV since I'm being forced to use composite video, which is not THAT bad but is not very good either. Let's see if I can close the deal with this local suppier and will let you know what happens.

I really don't think it is the PCB, it came from a collector who took it off from a dedicated machine and kept it on a shelf well packed for a long time and it is in beautiful shape with all labels pretty much intact, and he also had it tested for me when I bought it. Atari boards are pretty reliable as well, so I bet it is a Vogatek issue.

[XtraSmiley]

Sounds great. I think the HAS should be your purchase, trust me, it's the best answer here and not very expensive.

As for Brazil, there are a lot of PCB collectors in Brazil, you need to join a different forum and ask around. I just purchased Thunder Hoop 2 from a great seller and repairer in Brazil!

[rcoltrane]

Sounds great. I think the HAS should be your purchase, trust me, it's the best answer here and not very expensive.

HAS has RGB output only if I'm not mistaken and then I would have to buy an expensive converter to output it to component video, which might generate some input lag in the end. Besides that, we have heavy import fees, which doubles the final cost to me. The local solution seems ok and is way cheaper, and I can return it and have my money back if it does not work as expercted. That's why I decided to try this one instead.

As for Brazil, there are a lot of PCB collectors in Brazil, you need to join a different forum and ask around. I just purchased Thunder Hoop 2 from a great seller and repairer in Brazil!

Do you know another forum with brazilian collectors? I've searched a lot but most of them seems pretty dead by now. If you know a good forum with brazilian guys please let me know here.

[XtraSmiley]

Makes sense about the import fees. Let me know if I can mail you something from the US, I'd be happy to mark it lower or whatever to save you money.

This forum has a few Brazilian members, where I purchased my recent game from.

https://www.arcade-projects.com

This is also a big forum, with a few people from Brazil.

https://forums.arcade-museum.com

[rcoltrane]

Makes sense about the import fees. Let me know if I can mail you something from the US, I'd be happy to mark it lower or whatever to save you money.

Thank you for the kind offer! I've bought this one made here in Brazil today, and it will arrive on sunday. I'll tell you here how it goes.

[rcoltrane]

PROBLEM SOLVED!! FINALLY! YAYYY

Well, as we suspected, it was a Vogatek problem! After replacing it with the new supergun, the sync/power problem is gone! And the component video output is absolutely fantastic! very sharp image with crisp clear graphics and beautiful colors. The picture is completely fine, with no waving, shaking issues and it comes up right out of the bat when I turn the system on, the way it shoud be since the beginning! As a plus, I don't need that big ATX connector with 13 wires attached to it, it was a mess! I just need 4 power wires now and it works just fine!

I will take some pictures and a small video later, so you can see the results. I'm finally happy with my setup and it was way cheaper than I thought it would be.

[XtraSmiley]

Yay, fantastic!

Another issue due to shitty superguns!

I tell everyone, GET A HAS, the best SG ever made!

I'm so happy for you my friend. I will keep an eye out for Pit FIghter art for you, if I find it I will grab it and let you know!

[rcoltrane]

Here are some pictures of the new supergun working with component video output. These pictures are not that good and they do not make justice to the actual quality of the image on my TV, but I assure you it's great!!





Now I just need to redo the players 1 and 2 joystick connector to fit into this new setup. Fortunately, my third player joystick is connected directly to the Pit-Fighter PCB, so that one is just fine. And for last I think I will purchase a Mid-Tower PC cabinet to better accomodate everything together and give it a more 'professional' look. Let's see if I can find a nice one with enough room for this huge PCB.

Cheers,
RC

[rcoltrane]

My project is now complete, finally!!

The only thing I will do now is buy a decent PC ATX cabinet with enough room to accomodate everything and give it a more "professional" look. But for now I'm happy with it!

Here are two pics of the finished setup: