Sin & Punishment 2

[Skykid]

1. Sticking to the one-credit rule feels ridiculous on a game THIS LONG,

Probably because it is ridiculous.

Agreed, the length is the only major flaw I can find with the game. That aside it makes S&P1 almost obsolete with how good it is, one of the crowing achievements of modern gaming.

[Lance Boyle]

Agreed, the length is the only major flaw I can find with the game.

... I found several others besides that.

Also, wow, it feels kind of awesome to be part of the small minority of people who think that three hours for an action game is TOO LONG.

[Skykid]

Agreed, the length is the only major flaw I can find with the game.

... I found several others besides that.

I know, I read the post, I just don't agree with any of them. I played the game in Japanese, so the cutscenes didn't suck ass at any point, and the freedom of movement afforded by the jetpack and the motion sensor crosshair opened the game up to all sorts of possibilities that Treasure capitalised on fully.

I just wish I had time to be better at it.

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Did somebody ever sit down and point out every reference to other Treasure games in S&P2?
I mean sure Treasure has been doing this sort of thing for the longest time but with this game it's like every other moment I'm reminded of something I saw in a previous title.

-Ikaruga font
-Some of the bullet patterns are straight out of Ikaruga
-Boss-designs similar to Radiant Silvergun
-Evade works like Astro-boy's dash.
-Final boss rush is totally Gunstar Heroes
-The whole melee aspect sort of reminds me of Guardian Heroes Advance(the parry system)
-"Secret Bonus Points" like Dynamite Headdy
-A number of bosses are sort of reminiscent of prior Treasure games(like that one huge freak in the vertical-scrolling stage kind of felt like Gradius 5 third boss or that one section of stage 2 in Ikaruga)
-A Bomberman reference...which isn't Treasure at all but whatever!
-Credits sequence is a nod to Gunstar Heroes' credit sequence.
-Storyline is completely nonsensical...like...well...almost every Treasure game.

My first playthrough went okay(died a few times on stuff like the second form of the final boss and some of the insta-death sections) but it seems like almost all of my deaths came from that fucking mutant space-gerbil fight. Actually not the fight itself but the section right before where Isa/Kachi is captured and I gotta rescue them while the screen turns into a massive clusterfuck. It's probably the worst part of the game.

It's really good but damn why'd they have to make it three freaking hours AND tie score into it? I can't even fathom the idea that there's somebody out there that beat the game on hard without even getting hit and having some insane score.

The cutscenes suck in any language btw.

[Skykid]

The cutscenes suck in any language btw.

Why?

[Shelcoof]

Did somebody ever sit down and point out every reference to other Treasure games in S&P2?
I mean sure Treasure has been doing this sort of thing for the longest time but with this game it's like every other moment I'm reminded of something I saw in a previous title.

-Ikaruga font
-Some of the bullet patterns are straight out of Ikaruga
-Boss-designs similar to Radiant Silvergun
-Evade works like Astro-boy's dash.
-Final boss rush is totally Gunstar Heroes
-The whole melee aspect sort of reminds me of Guardian Heroes Advance(the parry system)
-"Secret Bonus Points" like Dynamite Headdy
-A number of bosses are sort of reminiscent of prior Treasure games(like that one huge freak in the vertical-scrolling stage kind of felt like Gradius 5 third boss or that one section of stage 2 in Ikaruga)
-A Bomberman reference...which isn't Treasure at all but whatever!
-Credits sequence is a nod to Gunstar Heroes' credit sequence.
-Storyline is completely nonsensical...like...well...almost every Treasure game.

My first playthrough went okay(died a few times on stuff like the second form of the final boss and some of the insta-death sections) but it seems like almost all of my deaths came from that fucking mutant space-gerbil fight. Actually not the fight itself but the section right before where Isa/Kachi is captured and I gotta rescue them while the screen turns into a massive clusterfuck. It's probably the worst part of the game.

It's really good but damn why'd they have to make it three freaking hours AND tie score into it? I can't even fathom the idea that there's somebody out there that beat the game on hard without even getting hit and having some insane score.

The cutscenes suck in any language btw.

One reason why I loved Sin and Punishment 2 so much was because it had so many different references to other Treasure games. It felt like a compilation of what I loved about every single Treasure game I've played so far. I don't know how this is a flaw seeing how these are the actual characteristics that Treasure fans have come to love and enjoy.

[Protector one]

1. Sticking to the one-credit rule feels ridiculous on a game THIS LONG, and on top of that you have to replay the (very bland) tutorial level every. single. run.

You sir, are crazy. The tutorial is by far my favorite level, as it's the only level that makes it (humanly) possible to do a perfect run.

[PepsimanVsJoe]

The cutscenes suck in any language btw.

Why?

Well we've got a couple of terribly ugly character models who can't explain anything that a few sentences in the instruction manual couldn't cover, the Nebulox who couldn't be bothered to explain why the girl has to die or how it's going to benefit anyone, and some laughable "action" scenes that serve zero purpose. This would all be fine since it's par for the course when it comes to action games but damn the cutscenes run overlong. If anything Treasure could have cut back on all this nonsense and just have title cards announcing the bosses while dumping the cutscenes altogether.

One reason why I loved Sin and Punishment 2 so much was because it had so many different references to other Treasure games. It felt like a compilation of what I loved about every single Treasure game I've played so far. I don't know how this is a flaw seeing how these are the actual characteristics that Treasure fans have come to love and enjoy.

I didn't say any of the references were flaws. I think they're all great and eh it's part of Treasure's M.O.

[Brod]

Greetings,

Any opinions on this Wii gun accessory for this game?

http://www.ozgameshop.com/wii-accessori ... nchuck-wii

Cheers

[Skykid]

The cutscenes suck in any language btw.

Why?

Well we've got a couple of terribly ugly character models who can't explain anything that a few sentences in the instruction manual couldn't cover, the Nebulox who couldn't be bothered to explain why the girl has to die or how it's going to benefit anyone, and some laughable "action" scenes that serve zero purpose. This would all be fine since it's par for the course when it comes to action games but damn the cutscenes run overlong. If anything Treasure could have cut back on all this nonsense and just have title cards announcing the bosses while dumping the cutscenes altogether.

So mainly it's the dialogue that's the bulk of your issue, which is why I assumed that they hadn't been a problem for me in a language I couldn't understand.
I like the character models, they're solid and well posed and look suitably otherworldy. They give the game a uniqueness that's important in a market saturated with generic anime cutouts.
I thought the cutscenes were cool (in Japanese), and I like the way they tie into the successive stage music. The game is a journey and they do little to detract from that imo.

In English they're probably rubbish, so I won't bother to find out.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Those models are ugly just the way models in the first game are. I suppose it was less jarring in low resolution (a bit like the Silent Bomber dude looked good in playable parts as we were paying attention to his cool animations rather than his uncool mug and hairdo). It's quite ironic how the rest of Japanese industry matched Treasure in not knowing what to do with higher polygon count and texture resolution when it comes to character modelling these days. When they worked with 16x16 sprites and LEGO dudes, they must have kept their designs bullshitless. Now they churn out designs like in Bayonetta and Resonance of Fate. I guess that's how the characters in Vagrant Story and whatnot would look like if they had better hardware back in the day. It gets even creepier when they resort to chibi proportions although they can't do it properly anymore (Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, Suikoden Tierkreis)... ugh.
Then again, S&P2 characters, as descendants of S&P characters, have the right to look like that.

[Skykid]

Now they churn out designs like in Bayonetta and Resonance of Fate.

I know, it disgusts me too. Bayonetta was bad, but ROF designs actually put me off the game from the intro onwards.

I guess that's how the characters in Vagrant Story and whatnot would look like if they had better hardware back in the day. It gets even creepier when they resort to chibi proportions although they can't do it properly anymore (Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, Suikoden Tierkreis)... ugh.
Then again, S&P2 characters, as descendants of S&P characters, have the right to look like that.

You definitely have a point. Vagrant Story's models are so cool compared to the crap today, but back then not all designs had to look highly westernised, which probably has something to do with the change in direction.

And yeah, why can't they do Chibi modelling anymore? As well as the ones you mentioned, after playing Dragon Quest IX for several hours I started to realise proportionally the characters were a bit off too.
Annoying.

[Obiwanshinobi]

When lo-res, square sprites and blocky polygonal models were technically most efficient, chibi-ness was very much a necessity if you wanted to make your characters memorable, eye-catching etc. Jumpan/Mario and Pac-Man are video game superstars; Contra guys aren't. Even Karateka and Chelnov/Atomic Runner are remembered by the connoisseurs rather than the masses; I'm pretty sure Prince of Persia was the first video game character of realistic proportions to achieve the stardom. More people seem to remember Final Fantasy than Phantasy Star and so on.
When the artists were told to make a number of varied 16x16 or 32x32 sprites so everybody could've told an armoured knight from a fair maiden, an adult from a toddler etc, and to make them life-like, with animations, body language and facial expressions, they must have dealt with each and every pixel very cerefully. Either the character was well done or it was screwed up; decision-making process must have been easier back then. With early 3D it was probably the same case (less polygons meant you couldn't screw up too much).
These days, however, putting chibi designs in your game is like making a black and white film for the heck of it. They can endow character models with more details, but we, beholders, are more likely to nit-pick all their fuckups.
Or just look at Star Wars I-III - Lucas had all the technology of seventies-eighties handy and then some (CGI), but I guess most people would agree that the original IV-VI trilogy looked more consistent with its puppets, rubber monsters, blueboxes and dioramas, without god-awful American computer animation (Jar Jar Binks says hello).
Some people make wonders with modest technology, then tend to get lost when they get more possibilities.

[guigui]

Greetings,

Any opinions on this Wii gun accessory for this game?

http://www.ozgameshop.com/wii-accessori ... nchuck-wii
Cheers

I'd say definitely no use for this game. Except if you change button configuration to something a little uncomfortable, you need to have easy access to both A and B buttons.
Anyone plays this game with an easy button configuration that could go along with gun accessory ?

[UncleSamPatriot]

Hi!

I just wanted to tell you guys a thank you notice, I got the game because Twingalaxies competition for the highest score. But sadly I do live in Finland so I could not take part in the contest. But the game is great! I started to play it and I studied the videos that you guys had on the forum about the Japanese players and other stuff too. So last September I was able to make on the third place on the USA/Europe leader board/international on hard (Except Japan.).

These kinds of games are great, thanks for introducing me how fun it can be with rail shooter and Wii remote aiming.

Here is my best run from 2010 September: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBBbX4fICQU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_vqff2OIb0 <--- This has a great part which I am very happy about, taking on Hibaru Yaju and beating her without taking any damage.

My score was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMXgkke-L7Q 61,969,885.

[Obiwanshinobi]

These kinds of games are great, thanks for introducing me how fun it can be with rail shooter and Wii remote aiming.

Check out Wild Guns (it's on Virtual Console). Digital controls, but good fun all the same.

[dnbiola]

I finally picked this up. I have been a fan of Treasure since the Genesis days and knew I had to get this. I shouldn't have underestimated Treasure. In my opinion, this game is mindblowingly brilliant and by far the best game I have played on the Wii. I felt like a kid at the arcade. What an amazing game!

[Siren2011]

On the subject of character models, Skykid wrote:

Bayonetta was bad

Hmmm. I loved Bayonetta herself, Jeane, and their arch nemesis/David Bowie dude's designs. I hated, however, her ugly runt of a daughter, that boy-bitch journalist who was her friend (I think his name was Cheshire), the black guy, and the Joe Pesci archetype-- every one of them looked uninspired and rushed. Of course it should go without saying that the enemy and boss designs were brilliant, and really set this game apart from other 3D Action titles with their emphasis on morbid versions of angels (and Greek mythology???).

[Skykid]

On the subject of character models, Skykid wrote:

Bayonetta was bad

I hated, however, her ugly runt of a daughter, that boy-bitch journalist who was her friend (I think his name was Cheshire), the black guy, and the Joe Pesci archetype-- every one of them looked uninspired and rushed.

We're in agreement.

Regarding character models, I wasn't referencing the bosses either, they were outstanding.

[stryc9]

Would just like to chime in and say this game is awesome. If it isn't one of the best rail shooters ever made then I don't know what is. I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW GOOD THE GRAVEYARD LEVEL IS. The bosses are terrific, some incredible attacks going on etc.

Yes the length of the game is going to be an issue for scoring, as I am used to shit taking 20 minutes to beat, but in the end I guess it makes up for it a bit with the sheer amount of content on offer.

Treasure still got it. Well, it appears they can still turn it on when they want to, in between Bleach games and uhh... cancelling new projects

[guigui]

Would just like to chime in and say this game is awesome. If it isn't one of the best rail shooters ever made then I don't know what is. I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW GOOD THE GRAVEYARD LEVEL IS. The bosses are terrific, some incredible attacks going on etc.

Yes the length of the game is going to be an issue for scoring, as I am used to shit taking 20 minutes to beat, but in the end I guess it makes up for it a bit with the sheer amount of content on offer.

Treasure still got it. Well, it appears they can still turn it on when they want to, in between Bleach games and uhh... cancelling new projects

Stage select is here to give you your 20 minutes shot of adrenaline. Leaderboards are also splitted by stages, so dont hesitate to play stage 4 at leisure.

[stryc9]

Just played through the next two stages. Just fucking wow. The pod race, the lava battleship. The variety showcased during the levels and the creative nature of the bosses and their attacks is typical Treasure, and here it is executed about the best I've seen.

In a way it has just about every element that's cool from arcade type railers, and console action games in general. The audio is also excellent, with awesome tracks and a line of ear splitting explosions that are also some of the best I've heard. When you blow something up in this game, your gonna feel it.

Colour me impressed

[evil_ash_xero]

Did you just get to play it?


It is pretty incredible.

[Skykid]

S&P2 = best thing evar.

[NZA]

So far, I'm terrible at it, but I love it. It's control scheme fits the Wii nunchuk and remote like a glove.

[Obiwanshinobi]

So far I can't really tell what about this game couldn't have been done with mouse and keyboard. I suppose it plays jolly well emulated (on powerful enough PCs). Say, WSAD for movement, mouse for aim, space for dodge, shift for jump etc.

[null1024]

So far I can't really tell what about this game couldn't have been done with mouse and keyboard. I suppose it plays jolly well emulated (on powerful enough PCs). Say, WSAD for movement, mouse for aim, space for dodge, shift for jump etc.

Thinking about it, it would work just fine on a PC too. It's just that, on the Wii, this game is one of those times when you actually want to use the Wiimote and Nunchuk.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Thinking about it, it would work just fine on a PC too. It's just that, on the Wii, this game is one of those times when you actually want to use the Wiimote and Nunchuk.

Nothing wrong about it. First time I heard about Wii, I hoped it would escape the console FPS compromise rot prominent at the time (and now), and here it is - a game where analogue aim doesn't feel compromised, and a console game of sort that got me into console gaming to boot.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Hum... Does anybody know if the Wii pointer controls are calculated separatedly from the polygonal graphics? The thing is, I'm having a hard time fighting the Ikaruga dude near the end (being drunk certainly doesn't help, so don't take it personallly) and all these bloom transparencies in the face seem to be hitting the performance quite a bit. I mean, the aiming remains accurate, but the movement seems laggier, evoking bad memories of Z.O.E.2.
Last time I experienced someting along those lines was when I played Torchlight on my vintage PC (and Darkstone before that, although it might have been some hardware incompatibility, and before that - Guild Wars - i.e. variable framerate, yet steady cursor controls).

[WarpZone]

Nintendo is shutting down Wii servers on May 20, so S&P2's leaderboards will be gone. I'm curious what the highest scores for each stage ended up being, though I don't have access to my Wii until past the deadline to check. Just throwing this out there if anyone else cares.