List of shmups where you have to suicide for best score

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue May 03, 2005 2:33 pm

I've noticed a lot of people hate games with this mechanic...let's ruin some of their favorites then

All that comes to me now are

Batsugun (see Rando's ST)
Battle Garegga
Battle Bakraid
Souky (IIRC)
(all Raizing games perhaps?)
Border Down

mannerbot · Post by **mannerbot** » Tue May 03, 2005 5:12 pm

Souky? You sure about that one? The rank can't be controlled, iirc.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:02 pm

I thought in Souky you can keep the rank down by not collecting powerups and attacking only with the lock-on weapon..

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:05 pm

Yeah, but I think what he's saying is that while you can keep it from increasing too fast you might not be able to actively decrease it, as you can in Garegga. In all honesty I don't know exactly how it works...

alpha5099 · Post by **alpha5099** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:06 pm

I think it was Super Star Soldier, someone had a link to this 40-some minute long Japanese program on some Hudson shmup competition from the early nineties, and all the top players were suiciding about half way through the Five Minute Mode.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:10 pm

What does IIRC mean?

I dont think suiciding in souky is worth it at all.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:13 pm

MovingTarget wrote:What does IIRC mean?

"If I Remember Correctly," at least that's what I always thought.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:13 pm

Anyway, R-type Final is another...

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:14 pm

BulletMagnet wrote:
MovingTarget wrote:What does IIRC mean?
"If I Remember Correctly," at least that's what I always thought.

Makes sense

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:15 pm

mannerbot wrote:Souky? You sure about that one? The rank can't be controlled, iirc.

Definitely not sure, hopefully an expert can confirm.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:19 pm

In souky rank can be controlled, death is not the way to go though.

http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2078

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:48 pm

Bakraid has suicide a mandatory task multiple times per level

Still, its nice to lose a life and not feel bad, eh?!

Post by **Ghegs** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:52 pm

alpha5099 wrote:I think it was Super Star Soldier, someone had a link to this 40-some minute long Japanese program on some Hudson shmup competition from the early nineties, and all the top players were suiciding about half way through the Five Minute Mode.

That was me. Yeah, they do that to get two larger enemies to appear "twice" thanks to the checkpoint system, that still leaves them with just enough time (a matter of seconds, really) to destroy the boss.

SheSaidDutch · Post by **SheSaidDutch** » Tue May 03, 2005 7:15 pm

Could someone explain this mechanism?

Suicide for the best score?

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Tue May 03, 2005 7:34 pm

Could someone explain this mechanism?
Suicide for the best score?

In Battle Bakraid, you get bonus lives for each 2mio. points. Nothing special so far, but with each new fighter spawning, you get a certain amount of bomb power, and a chain is kept alive longer than without dying. Taken together, this can be so valuable that by sacrificing a life, you get so much score that additional bonus lives are rewarded in the process. The world record, afair, is held by someone who dies 60 times throughout the game and gets 61 bonus lives.

Bakraid has suicide a mandatory task multiple times per level
Still, its nice to lose a life and not feel bad, eh?!

the problem is how you go about learning this. In Bakraid you are supposed to be juggling your life counter all the time, but if you aren´t terribly precise, the scoring fails, you don´t get the bonus lives and can write the whole run off. You have to learn damage levels and position of enemies, timing, weapon and bomb use as well as suicide to a degree of precision which even surpasses Dai Ou Jou. I´ve had the PCB for almost a year, and while it was a lot of fun intially, once I tried to go for score seriously, I was hitting a wall very soon, even after reading about the system in detail I couldn´t even put into practice the tiniest bit. When someone made me an offer to buy it, I was glad to get rid of this game. I´m no rank hater, actually a rank advocate, but this system is more against my intuition than any other I´m aware of.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Tue May 03, 2005 8:04 pm

freddiebamboo wrote:Bakraid has suicide a mandatory task multiple times per level

At least the rank only really comes into play when you're really going for score, which makes it much more friendly to "casual" players like myself, unlike Garegga or its ilk, wherein you need to break out the strategy guides and replay vids to even have a shot at finishing the thing.

mannerbot · Post by **mannerbot** » Tue May 03, 2005 8:06 pm

Yeah, I know Souky rank is kept down by not collecting powerups, by suicide is what I meant.

WarpZone · Post by **WarpZone** » Tue May 03, 2005 8:22 pm

MovingTarget wrote:Anyway, R-type Final is another...

I'd think most check-point based shooters would be, unless they have loops or reward bonuses for lives remaining.

Rastan78 · Post by **Rastan78** » Tue May 03, 2005 8:24 pm

In the Raiden Fighters series expert players will suicide early on presumably in order to decrease the rank. This is seen on the new Insanity DVD.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed May 04, 2005 2:31 am

WarpZone wrote: I'd think most check-point based shooters would be, unless they have loops or reward bonuses for lives remaining.

Yeah, any shooter with at least 1 checkpoint restart with a score system based primarily on kills where you can earn a lot of points on the last level, die to the final boss, restart the last level, die to the final boss, etc.... until you run out of lives to maximize your score.

alpha5099 · Post by **alpha5099** » Wed May 04, 2005 2:38 am

Rastan78 wrote:In the Raiden Fighters series expert players will suicide early on presumably in order to decrease the rank. This is seen on the new Insanity DVD.

Oh yeah. Rando said that's how the superplay of Layer Section goes, the guy loses two lives off the bat so his rank is low throughout.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Wed May 04, 2005 3:44 pm

There's a trick to get 20kk extra points and calm down rank in rayforce/Layer section, yes, but it's extremely hardcore (i.e. unless you really want bad those 200k, it's pointless).

Post by **Icarus** » Wed May 04, 2005 4:00 pm

Ganelon wrote:Yeah, any shooter with at least 1 checkpoint restart with a score system based primarily on kills where you can earn a lot of points on the last level, die to the final boss, restart the last level, die to the final boss, etc.... until you run out of lives to maximize your score.

In Image Fight, you can exploit the checkpoint before the 1-7 and 2-7 boss in this manner. The checkpoint features a huge swarm of small drones, followed by several large tanks. Exploiting 1-7, you can use up all your stocked lives for around 100,000+pts extra. Possibly more if you 1-life to 2-7 and then exploit the checkpoint.

In Layer Section, master players suicide immediately to gain an extra lock-on powerup, increasing potential lock-on bonuses early.

In Bakraid, suiciding freezes the multiplier timer, lengthening the time you have to increase the multiplier again via chain targets. Rank is based in life count and survival rate per life, so blowing yourself up is doubly important to keep rank low, and to increase scoring potential.

DEL · Post by **DEL** » Thu May 05, 2005 11:17 am

Add XXMISSION to the list. I found a way to Counter Stop the score on that one, by suiciding at a certain point near the end of the game & repeating.

Truxton - You can also suicide just after destroying the Train Tracks Boss & repeat for a reasonable extra score (but not enough for an extra life).

Icarus - Thanks for the Image Fight 1-7 & 2-7 trick

I'm sure there are a lot more games with the die & repeat trick, but those are the first two that spring to mind.

shmups.system11.org

List of shmups where you have to suicide for best score

List of shmups where you have to suicide for best score

Suicide for score