Guwange - background graphics faults

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:01 pm

Hello folks,

so today I got hold of another Guwange PCB

yay !
however, all is not well

on bootup there are stong lines in the background, on the character select screen there is background corruption and in game there is background corruption

I can post some pics up tomorrow - but was wondering if this is something anyone has come across before, and failing that do Cave fix older PCB's ?

I can confirm the issue is definetly down to the PCB and not the cabinets (plural) that i've tested the PCB with, as the same faukts are apparent on each setup

thanks

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

i know someones had guwange problems before, do a search in the forums.

i very much doubt CAVE will physically repair any boards, old or new.
afaik theyre stingy with just doing upgrades on their current generation of hardware

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:19 pm

thanks Sven, I think i've found the thread in question, and it appears to have a very similar fault as mine, however Califoreigners pics showing which section of the PCB was at fault is no longer visible

still some thingd for me to try out from suggestions in the thread, failing that how do you guys on here react to old threads being bumped ?

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:56 pm

found the fault, pressing down on the surface mounted"chips" identified the section at fault and solves the problem - thanks for the suggestions Sven, didn't know this was a (sort of) common fault

now lets hope I can get it fixXxed

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:52 am

hey no sweat mate, i really hope you an get it working properly, excellent game!

if you say the problems dissapear when you press down on the chip id say go over all the tiny legs with a fine soldering iron, might just be a cracked solder somewhere (almost impossible to spot wihout a microscope).

Post by **Dave_K.** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:31 pm

I'd recommend taking to an SMT specialist to be reflowed, as running a soldering iron over SMT chips usually leads to bridging of the legs, which would be a pain to clean up - even for a specialist.

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:37 pm

thanks guys,

Dave, I kinda agree, so I think i'm going to drop it off with Craig (aka Ordyne on other forums) at www.giz10p.co.uk - he deals with surface mount stuff on a variety of things all day long, but with a little help and advice from robivy64 i'm going to at least inspect the board a little further if it helps to identify which pins are not making good contact.

Bigsasquatch · Post by **Bigsasquatch** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:25 pm

Blimey

didn't think I'd see you on a shmup site matey

Hope you get the board sorted OK ....

BIG S

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:03 am

hehe, I get around don't I

I go in fits and jerks, I grabbed Guwange a few years back from Superpang when I realised how much I actually hated Ikaruga, but then sold it last year, recently started having pangs for Guwange again , so here I am

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:29 am

just as an update to this thread, please see image below highlighting which section of the board is at fault

the legs on that are tiny, and I thought wiring in a 50 pin chip on a Dreamcast several years ago was hard work

no way am I even going to attempt touching this.

question though (however stupid it is) heatgun, good idea or bad idea ?

Bigsasquatch · Post by **Bigsasquatch** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:26 pm

I'd have a play on something else first..... I just threw out some old neo boots that I got off Pen with me cab .... you could haveb had thos PCB's to practice technique on......

someone else must have something fooked lying around that you could trial it with......

My only concern with a heatgun, is that if you get the surrounding area too hot you may damage the tracks.....

BIG S

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:38 pm

i'd be more concerned with frying the IC itself, something which Craig confirmed - hence why I asked him if a heatgun was a good idea or not

I might have got a lead on someone fairly local (within driving distance, about 50 mile away) who might be able to help, will know more later this week, i've got Ibara to keep me screaming at the cabinet for now anyway (damn that game is hard ! sort of a love/hate thing with that at the moment) and i'll have to stick with Final Burn for a bit for Guwange.

its the only problem with these older PCB's, and it reminds me why I sold my CPS3 collection off all those years ago, I must keep reminding myself of this too

Bigsasquatch · Post by **Bigsasquatch** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:46 pm

Good point.... I was assuming you could heat from the back of the pcb so the board would shield most of the heat......personally I wouldn't do it meself either.....

Can you not send it back to tthe seller ? seems like they delivered a faulty board.......?

BIG S

Bigsasquatch · Post by **Bigsasquatch** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:49 pm

Mr-Megalo wrote:its the only problem with these older PCB's, and it reminds me why I sold my CPS3 collection off all those years ago, I must keep reminding myself of this too

Are they really that fragile ? ( apart from the live-swap battery issues to begin with )

Never really bothered with CPS-3 but have a small desire for SF3.3.....

BIG S

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:10 pm

its not so much about the board being damaged in transit or being deemed as faulty or whatever, sending anything of any value with full insurance via International Datapost (you know me, I have no patience or faith in postal services at times so EMS or bust for me - plus is stops arguments of "it got lost by the postman") outside of the UK is going to cost some serious cash, and whats to say another one is going to be so easily sourced ? f*ck it, I took a gamble and the house won - lets see if I can sort it.

re: CPS3, it depends, I personally never had issues with shipping them and them arriving dead, however others have and recipient has claimed it was DOA (although I am convinced of some dishonesty going on but no proof so can't say 100% for sure) and my last SF3.3 that died happened when I was midway through the battery swap - luckily I got Capcom Japan to ressurect mine and several other carts, so if it dies again because it hasn't been tampered with they would do it again, anyone who has had a CPS3 battery swap by anyone other than Capcom, is likely to have the cart returned unrepaired., the whole battery swap thing is a bit of a moot point anyways, from discussions with several people I've been told the battery swap doesn't guarantee against suicide anyway, proof is the game suddenly freezing and cart dieing 3 days after a battery swap when a whole setup hasn't been moved and no knwon voltage spikes or whathaveyou

/shameless plug, if you seriously do want an SF3.3 setup, you know where I am because its you i'd even come down with it in person

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:33 pm

i wouldnt put a heatgun to it.

like i said, a very fine tip soldeirng iron, some "fluss" (sorry dont know if thats the name in english aswell?) on there and then very carefully drag from the IC and outwards on one leg at a time is what id do before sending it to a specialist

cools · Post by **cools** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:42 pm

sven666 wrote:"fluss" (sorry dont know if thats the name in english aswell?)

Flux

RGB · Post by **RGB** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:19 pm

Here's a handy tutorial on soldering the QFP type ICs, if you decide to fix it by yourself - http://youtube.com/watch?v=3NN7UGWYmBY

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:45 pm

@ Sven - I appreciate what your saying and the advice I really do, but seriously, i'm not going to risk it myself, if it was a cheaper board or even one that I didn't hold in as a high regard, then maybe so, but this is Guwange, i'd feel like a proper tit if I made it any worse than what it is when I know someone who is used to dealing with finer solder points and IC's of this nature culd do a better job and if it saves one more board from what I understand was quite a imited release in itself then that to me is what matters. I can almost hear screams of "meg you silly bastard, WTF you gone and done!" eminating from the community, I dont think I could take the embarassment

@ RBG, thats a REALLY handy video (and one worth saving a link to aswell thanks )

I think I read a comment on here actually when searching about using a solder wick as described in that video too, but again, as said above to sven i'm not going to risk it myself with this board, but certainly some techniques to try out on some scrapper board's for practice and such.

in short, I appreciate the "give it a shot" attitude and am gratefull for the advice - but on this occasion, i'm going to pass and let someone far more experienced do it, trust me, its the best decision to make unless you guys want one more Guwange board removed from existance - but thats not to say I wont be doing some practice

i'll keep this thread updated and hopefully will be able to post some good news soon

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:49 pm

oops double post

Post by **Dave_K.** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:40 pm

I'm also a do-it-yourself kind of person and did some practice soldering on some old PC ethernet cards with SMT chips, and only made a mess of things with a soldering iron. I also tried making my own mini heat gun with a desoldering iron w/crimped end and fish tank pump (lol instructions on the internet), which did nothing but heat up the chip a lot and never actually melted the solder.

After watching that youtube, I might give it another test go on some more crap pc cards, but for $450 guwange pcb I also wouldn't risk it.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:15 pm

Leave it to the professionals and not have to worry about screwing up an irreplaceable Guwange PCB yourself is the best advice, Mr-Megalo. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:53 pm

update time

Craig @ Giz10p (link to website above in an earlier post) has fixed the issue

and it wasn't the QFP I highlighted either that was not making good contact, it was an IC to the left, but pressing on the section I highlighted earlier flexed the board enough for the IC on the left to make good contact this probably explains why I thought it was the pins that ran down the left of the section I thought was affected

heres another updated picture of the section/IC at fault

it took him 10 minutes to repair the connections and clean that IC and surrounding area, he also tidied up some other area's while he was at it as he was convinced somene had attempted a repair on this before (but thats neither here nor there) and cleaned all that down too, I thought the board was clean before, well its even more so now.

so, I can stop playing Ibara and get on to some more relaxed gaming now - happy days

thanks to all the advice from you guys, thanks for the video link (convinced me to buy some more stuff now and practice some more finer soldering and whatnot) and I hope this thread can be of some use to someone else in the future.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:01 pm

excellent news, congrats on scoring a guwange then, not an easy find these days

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:06 pm

you can blame Superpang and a guy called gundarN (on another forum) if it wasn't for his shmup obsessions spilling over and him and darN talking about it I wouldn't have ever tried it in MAME and fell in love with it, I dont claim to be a shmup expert, but Guwange is awesome, and its a game that makes me feel quite chilled out when playing it - compared to Ikaruga and Ibara which have me scream obscenitys at arcade machines

i think I'm not bad on it either, not 1cc'd it yet, but theres hope yet

cody · Post by **cody** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:24 pm

That updated second picture looks mighty familiar - I have a guwange board with a problem in that exact same area.

Recommendations for anyone in the US that has experience dealing with that sort of thing?

Mr-Megalo · Post by **Mr-Megalo** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:55 pm

I don't know of anyone in the US, but Craigs rates are very reasonable.

try what I did, take any PCB feet off of the PCB so its laid flat (put it on a box) and press down on that IC with the eraser end of a pencil, see if it changes anything

alternatively, theres always Ken Westfield at "I Repair Sega" I know its not Sega but you never know, he may be willing to help