Vertical VS Horizonal Shmups

Phil12 · Post by **Phil12** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:42 am

May I ask why it seems as if more people like Vertical shmups rather than Horizontal ones? As I've been reading, I've heard a lot of people don't care for them.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:50 am

Less obstacles.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:26 am

gravity arcs, sine wave patterns, etc.

Kaspal · Post by **Kaspal** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:42 am

i like verts more than horiz cuz... well, they feel better for me... i mean, whenever i play horiz i feel theres somethin wrong ... and i hate to colide with the scenery too.

with all that said, i still love the gradious saga (especially G5) and Progear (the horiz i play the msot).

subcons · Post by **subcons** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:05 am

They just generally have a different feel.

I'll always prefer verts. I can just list off more of them that are memorable for me than I can horis. I will admit though, in the past couple of years, I've grown to have more of an appreciation for some of the staple franchises like R-Type and Gradius (and all the spin-offs). Then there are horis with more involved scoring mechanics, which generally isn't the norm, like Progear and Border Down, which I think most everyone takes a liking to.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:10 am

Whenever I'm playing a hori and there's some graphic running along the bottom of the screen - say a parallax background - I timidly skid the belly of my ship across it.

:(

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:11 am

I like them because, quite simply, when I tap right I move right. In a horizontal shooter, if I tap right, I move forwards.

Sounds weird but yeah, this is pretty much my main reason for preferring them.

lewisit · Post by **lewisit** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:26 am

in another thread glitch wrote:somehow in verti's i feel much more attached to the craft, allowing me to play by instinct. like seeing your own feet run, or something. my feet don't run from left to right, at least not from my perspective. in a hori my craft stays a separate thingy on a screen and control remains almost purely cerebral.

i totally second that

toaplan_shmupfan · Post by **toaplan_shmupfan** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:47 am

Here are the reasons I prefer vertical shooters to horizontal shooters:

Vertical shooters, with some exceptions, normally don't have very many attacks coming up from the bottom of the screen (and if they do have attacks coming up from the bottom of the screen, they are usually ground targets rather than air targets).

In contrast, I find that almost all horizontal shooters frequently have attacks coming from the left side of the screen (which is the back of the ship in the horizontal orientation). This tends to be more of a problem because...
I usually don't have to turn my head as much, if at all, when playing vertical shooters. This makes vertical shooters less tiring to play, especially in an arcade setting where the screen is in very close proximity to the controls.

With horizontal shooters, I often find myself having to turn my head right and left (especially multi-monitor shooters such as Capcom's U.N. Squadron and Taito's Darius), and if my head is turned towards the right then I risk missing seeing an attack that is on the left side of the screen until I've already been hit. In the case of U.N. Squadron, though, at least most of the attacks were originating from the top, right, or bottom of the screen.
As already mentioned, horizontal shooters tend to have a lot more terrain based obstacles, when compared to most vertical shooters. I generally don't like maze aspects incorporated into shooters, except for what I considered to be "fair" mazes in Thunderforce III, Lightening Force, and Darius Gaiden.

Based on that, there have been a few horizontal shooters I have really enjoyed, despite my preference for vertical shooters. These games immediately come to mind as horizontal shooters I've enjoyed.

Carrier Airwing (Capcom)
Darius Gaiden (Taito)
G-Darius (Taito)
Gaiares (Renovation)
Lightening Force (Technosoft)
Magmax (Nichibutsu)
Thunderforce III (Technosoft)
U.N. Squadron (Capcom)

Avist Torch · Post by **Avist Torch** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:33 am

I haven't played a lot of horis, but what annoys me about some of them is how severely they punish you for dying, and to a lesser extent how you tend to be surrounded. Also, I don't really like manic horis for some reason. I do like a couple, such as Blazing Star, UN Squadron, and Einhander. On the other hand, I don't really like the Gradius series, and I flat-out dislike Progear.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:19 am

Hori's are my fave.

Why?

Because I grew up with them (gradius/salamander/ r-type).
They (mostly) require less reaction skills and demand more insight and strategy - and memorizing. I am not too good at dodging but love strategy/memorizing stuff.

Gradius series Pwns Pachi series imho. (I assume I am pretty much alone there though

)

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:52 am

Super Laydock wrote:Hori's are for nerds while verts are for REAL men with an abundance of chest hair.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:56 am

When you play more on a proper cab I think you discover why. In front of a big screen, the bottom of the screen feels just a little bit closer to you when right next to it. It gives an illusion of depth and allows for some more reflex-based patterns.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:07 am

320x240 wrote:
Super Laydock wrote:Hori's are for nerds while verts are for REAL men with an abundance of chest hair.

abundance of chest hair makes you resemble a monkey more... (I have little btw).

And so what if I am a nerd!?!
Aren't all shmuppers just that to a certain extent?

I like being a nerd if this is what it is though...

Screw mainstream.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:12 am

Laydock, fyi, missing jokes and instead getting defensive about your tastes is only going to convince people you aren't confident with them.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:35 am

moozooh wrote:Laydock, fyi, missing jokes and instead getting defensive about your tastes is only going to convince people you aren't confident with them.

Ooh, I am well confident with my tastes.

I noticed some sarcasm and replied in accordance.

I really have little to no chest hair (and am confident about that...

)

Post by **spadgy** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:48 pm

Super Laydock wrote: Gradius series Pwns Pachi series imho. (I assume I am pretty much alone there though )

Perhaps not; since I got into shmups in a serious way I've always thought and said I prefer verticals. But like you my youth was filled with hori shooters, and recently I've notice I'm spending a lot of time with Gradius, Progear, Thunder Force, and I'm just discovering Border Down.

Maybe, despite what I assume, I am actually lean towards horis.

Maybe it's time for me to come out the closet as having a hori preference!

Deciding between the two is actually too close to call for me, so perhaps I'm bi-zontal, or bi-axisual, but I do think I prefer the Gradius series over the Donpachi series.... by a tiny tiny fraction

EDIT: I have a modest and wispy amount of chest hair

ForceDevice · Post by **ForceDevice** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:07 pm

I prefer horis... but there are just too few of them (manic ones at least).

I like the fact that horis really give me the feeling that my ship is FLYING, and that there really is ground below - not many verts can show this too well.

Also, most manic horis have bullet patterns influenced by gravity (see Progear boss 2, for example). I don't recall ever seeing that on a vert, which is a shame, cause gravity is awesome.

Post by **spadgy** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:19 pm

ForceDevice wrote:I prefer horis... but there are just too few of them (manic ones at least).

I like the fact that horis really give me the feeling that my ship is FLYING, and that there really is ground below - not many verts can show this too well.

Also, most manic horis have bullet patterns influenced by gravity (see Progear boss 2, for example). I don't recall ever seeing that on a vert, which is a shame, cause gravity is awesome.

Perhaps the lack of 'manic' horis is the reason the sub-genre has lost popularity. Aside from Progear, I really can't think of too many truly manic Horis. (I'd love to be proved ignorant on that count!)

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:21 pm

lewisit wrote:
in another thread glitch wrote:somehow in verti's i feel much more attached to the craft, allowing me to play by instinct. like seeing your own feet run, or something. my feet don't run from left to right, at least not from my perspective. in a hori my craft stays a separate thingy on a screen and control remains almost purely cerebral.
i totally second that

Elixir wrote:I like them because, quite simply, when I tap right I move right. In a horizontal shooter, if I tap right, I move forwards.

Those are spot-on.

I tend to prefer verts too, that´s what I played when I started playing shmups, but recently I fell in love with Gradius Gaiden (hardest setting for maximum twitching) again, and am surprised of how different it feels from, say, a Cave game. It just wouldn´t work in a vertical perspective. (I also started appreciating the elements in the game that I thought of as flaws - the power-up system and the option play, for instance.)

I found it funny how the brain needs to flick the switch when I started with Gradius Gaiden and Gradius 2, I kept dying very stupid deaths on the blue lasers from the first boss. Now I never do. What´s even weirder is since I got more confident in Gaiden, I started getting better in DDP, too. Seems like occasionally switching the orientation trains the brain even more than just sticking to one specific type of shmup. Feeling these learning effects is what I love about playing this genre.

And Progear is indeed a very weird case. It feels like a vert game lying on the side, and it shows that Cave didn´t have much experience in horis. I think they made it a hori just so they could show the pretty art from the side while ignoring the finer points of hori mechanics (IIRC it even was planned to be a vert at first). Death Smiles looks A LOT better in this regard, and draws a lot of inspiration from other games in the hori subgenre.

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:56 pm

Simply put, I enjoy the claustrophobic style of most horizontal shooters. Also, I think bosses and backgrounds are much more interesting when viewed from a side-perspective. Here's a great example: how would a Darius boss translate into vertical format? It would look stupid. Also, it seems to me that horizontal shooters have a way better sense of atmosphere and more interesting levels: Metal Black, X-Multiply, Darius Gaiden, Biohazard Battle, Wings of War, Xexex, etc.

Although, honestly, like most people here have said. I play horizontal and vertical shooters for entirely different reasons. It's like they aren't even part of the same genre, really.

SockPuppetHyren · Post by **SockPuppetHyren** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:10 pm

I play verticles more, for the simple fact that there are more of them. But honestly, I prefer horizontals.
Mainly because the environments and backgrounds actually have an effect on game play, instead of just being a pretty picture that is ultimately ignored in favor of "MOAR BULLETS". I would love to see more verts with interactive backgrounds.

lewisit · Post by **lewisit** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:20 pm

SockPuppetHyren wrote:I would love to see more verts with interactive backgrounds.

but groundtargets are an interactive background, aren't they?

trivial · Post by **trivial** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:48 pm

If that comparison holds, then I guess I don't like Rayforce and Souky for the same reason I don't like yoko horis.

That doesn't feel apt.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:09 pm

Andi wrote:Simply put, I enjoy the claustrophobic style of most horizontal shooters. Also, I think bosses and backgrounds are much more interesting when viewed from a side-perspective. Here's a great example: how would a Darius boss translate into vertical format? It would look stupid. Also, it seems to me that horizontal shooters have a way better sense of atmosphere and more interesting levels: Metal Black, X-Multiply, Darius Gaiden, Biohazard Battle, Wings of War, Xexex, etc.

Although, honestly, like most people here have said. I play horizontal and vertical shooters for entirely different reasons. It's like they aren't even part of the same genre, really.

Word!

Aru-san · Post by **Aru-san** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:55 pm

SockPuppetHyren wrote:I would love to see more verts with interactive backgrounds.

Two things scream at me when I see this: Raizing and BOMBER!!!

SockPuppetHyren · Post by **SockPuppetHyren** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:49 pm

lewisit wrote:
SockPuppetHyren wrote:I would love to see more verts with interactive backgrounds.
but groundtargets are an interactive background, aren't they?

Let me rephrase that, I wish more verts used their background scenery as an obstacle. I'm a sucker for claustrophobic shmups.

Though, it was silly of me to forget about ground units in shmups. Guess I'm playing too many doujin manics...

Aru-san · Post by **Aru-san** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:53 pm

SockPuppetHyren wrote:
Let me rephrase that, I wish more verts used their background scenery as an obstacle.

Play the first XOP. That'll probably make your day.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:50 pm

Aru-san wrote:
SockPuppetHyren wrote:I would love to see more verts with interactive backgrounds.
Two things scream at me when I see this: Raizing and BOMBER!!!

The correct spelling is "BOOMBAAAAAAAA!!!!!".

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:02 pm

I like horiz quite a bit. Love them actually- I kind of feel like they are better, but there are MORE high quality verts available. I'd imagine, that deep down inside, peoples tastes are more physiological than anything, like the lift and right muscles are easier to use than the up and down muscles, plus the lack of obstacles in verts translates to more control for you.
I'm all about abstract control. I like castlevania's and striders where you're forced to sail through the air after a jump. I like to dodge the ceiling. Sometimes, lack of control can feel very engaging for me.
Also, it seems like most horis have more of a narrative aspect to them, which I'm also into.