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 Post subject: GD: Giga Wing Generations
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:19 pm 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
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So, Takumi has finally published a third chapter in the series.

General comments and points of discussion (that i can think of):

- mixing point blank, medals obtained by shooting and reflecting stuff is tricky. Not only that, in key spots you get extra enemies!

- Volcano or Island? i do Volcano-Island, you?

- How to do the train stage? I find it difficult for scoring purposes, any feedback?

- When its' all about point-blanking stuff? How to exploit the enemies that, once destroyed, transform all bullets on screen into medals?

Please join the discussion and propose ideas :D
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Giga Wing Generations
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:38 pm 


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Glad this is started since I was just about to make one. Secets- There's one I know of on Island: at the end of the stage when turrets to the sides are shooting single green dashed lines of bullets, I think if you destroy them both simultaneously a point in the center will start gushing out medals. Any clarification on that or other secret points? The end of stage 3 seems like it could be a point... with the island with the large orb in the center that doesn't do anything.
Randorama wrote:
- Volcano or Island? i do Volcano-Island, you?

Island first because I like it more. :)

Quote:
- How to do the train stage? I find it difficult for scoring purposes, any feedback?

Yeah, I haven't got a good feeling for where the train segments sync up with the divebombers. Ideally it seems like they would plant enemies in a way that the entire train could be destroyed by reflecting, but it seems like sometimes I have to just shoot the train segments and divebombers individually. My total multiplier is low for this stage so I know I have to be approaching it wrong.

Quote:
- When its' all about point-blanking stuff? How to exploit the enemies that, once destroyed, transform all bullets on screen into medals?

Aren't all enemies worth the same (potential) amount of points? So I don't really worry about not point blanking enemies at times, like with these. I just do as much damage with the reflect/collecting medals and then give them a little time to fill up the screen, then destroy.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:03 pm 



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Uhm, didn't even know about secret sources of medals, thanks. I think that some sections are however "focused" on point-blanking, in the sense that's the best thing to do., while in others it's more important to reflect stuff. After all, the value is entirely given on the distance, so it's more a matter of design than taking down bigger enemies.

By the way: my best third stage value is +12k, before the boss.On the boss, i usually get up to +17k, but i doubt i'm reflecting the right attacks. Your best results on the first two stages?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:34 pm 


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Island-
multiplier +76 million, ~21,000-22,000 medals

Volcano-
multiplier +55 million, ~20,000-21,000 medals (a guess)

On stage 3 12,000 pre-boss is about right for me too. I'm only adding about 35 million on this stage.

Getting that secret gold "spring" on island is still a bit confusing to me. I've only got it to work about 3-4 times as I described it, reflecting the green lines back to their source and both destroyed simultaneously. The gold evaporates, so you have to hover right over it. Not really sure how much it helps my total either (doesn't jump up that much).

Finally saw stage 6. Reminds me of Shikigami 2. Seems like it's a worthless stage for medals, and since the points seem to be almost completely in time bonus there isn't much to think about is there?

That first pattern of the 5th boss' second form is a mess. I have real problems with that one.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:57 pm 


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Rob wrote:
That first pattern of the 5th boss' second form is a mess. I have real problems with that one.


I found that some of the attacks can be "dodged" standing still. I've avoided several of the waves merely staying put in the bottom middle of the screen. Perhaps there are other safe-spots around the screen.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:50 am 


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Does that work consistently? I tried it a few times and once I lasted for about 5 seconds, another about 2. Maybe I wasn't exact center, but to my eye it seemed like it. I'll have to keep trying that one.

Improvement on the level 1 (island) multiplier: 83 million.

Really happy with that, that was with the "gold spring" bonus. Sooner it's activated the better, since it lasts the entire duration of its source's screen life. Boss escaped, though, but I guess that doesn't matter so early.

Level 4 is so fun. 100+ million easily. I blew open my last high score today by 150kei, and this was after nearly restarting after blowing two levels/lives, so I figure 800+ could be attained relatively easily (after the level 5 bonus, 6 and bonus). 1000kei is a good even goal.

Practiced level 3 a bit and improved the level medal count to about 14,000. The second train section is easier to manipulate, since it seems basically staying below the train works throughout. Those power-up carriers shoot out a lot of bullets if kept alive. But I'm really blowing the boss fight. It seems I'm getting only half of the medals Randorama is getting.


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 Post subject: GWG
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:25 am 


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Rob - AHA, so you've figured out how to trigger the gold stream from simultaneous destruction of the two green shooters. That explains why we used to unwittingly trigger it during Tag Play on the Type X Ver.

My scoring on this game is not too hot, despite understanding the Point Blanking. I'm obviously doing something wrong, as I can't see myself edging towards the 400 quintillion with the way I'm playing at the moment.

Ps. Rob - You may be right about the speed, but I'm still very unhappy about the tiny display.

Regs, DEL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:13 pm 



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UUhm, i'm pretty behind with multipliers except for stage 4, but i need to implement the trick in the island stage.Extra enemies: on Volcano, take immediately down the the amphibious vehicles and the tanks, you get the extra tringular planes shooting the long stream of bullets. Slightly improved stage 3, also, 12,5k-13k before the boss. Stupid question: what the tank during the fourth stage releases? a golden Eagle?What's that, an extra life?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:08 pm 


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I think that's just a large medal. I haven't been able to note the value of it yet, but I'm sure it isn't an extra life. Wouldn't that be nice?

By the way I got your PM and I'll respond to it a little later.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:18 pm 


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Multiplier maxes out at 999,999,999 just like GW2, except I don't think it is reachable in a regular game. I could see 400 million personally.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:40 pm 



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Only 400M? I did another good run and obtained 312M by simply not dying (except for all lives on the medallion, was tempted to break the joystick...).

A general idea is this: 100+70+70+250+300+200(???)

My "sensation" is that the medallion is thought for maxing out the multiplier, more than anything else. I play a very conservative stage 5 and racked up roughly 110M multiplier points, so i suppose there's much more to squeeze off. Also, all the patterns from the boss are easily worth 2k medals each, same thing for the medallion. Overall, i think that they just made the maxing out much more difficult, as a new challenge. Any news on secret stuff, btw :wink: ?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:57 pm 


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I'm definitely getting lower results-

End of stage 1: 80
2: 150
3: 200 (I don't milk this boss, but probably should start)
4: 300+
5: 400+
6: ?

I'm not sure of 4 and 5 since I haven't played them enough in a real game to know the actual multiplier difference. The problem with maxing out the multiplier is... what's the use if it's at the expense of large time bonuses? Like on stage 6, it can be destroyed with about 40 seconds remaining. What would be the bonus if was taken out on 1 or 0?

40*10,000,000*500,000,000 = 20,0000,0000,00000000
1*10,000,000*999,999,999 = 0,9999,9999,90000000

But my bonus for stage 6 was more like 100kei with a lower multiplier than 500m, so there's a piece of the calculation I'm missing or forgetting.

No new secrets. I have trouble enough triggering the island secret. I keep damaging the right piece a bit (must be reflected bullets), which throws it off.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:24 pm 


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It looks like to complete the level bonus calculation they're just multiplying the total by 10 (any stage).


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:20 pm 


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A little experiment on stage 6 in score attack...

Code:
start shooting / time remaining -- multiplier -- score
85               38             -- 28.8m      -- 12.3kei
70               41             -- 42.3m      -- 16.4kei
50               25             -- 60.2m      -- 21.5kei
35               13             -- 86.9m      -- 23.9kei
25               13             -- 93.3m      -- 25.9kei
15                7             -- 105.0m     -- 25.3kei
n/a               2             -- 127.8m     -- 24.5kei


The medals are worth points, but I don't think they're worth as much to make up for the decrease in time bonus at a certain point. In GW2 a bulk of the points is in base boss value, medals and time bonus is practically worthless, so it's always worth hanging on until the end. I think the idea in GWG is to find the perfect point where milking is no longer beneficial. And since this is the last stage there is no continued benefit of boosting the multiplier more than it will increase naturally over the course of the battle. This would be much more pronounced in a real game where the multiplier wouldn't have to be built from scratch.

I think my medal count was only around 12,000. Also note it stops shooting around 3 seconds, so destroying it before that point is a must.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:05 pm 



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Uhm...
Consider that at some point, point-blanking stuff really gives you a lot of points, after all 1M*600M mult.= 60 kei. In this case, i can only but applaud at Takumi, as you have two different sub-games closely interwined: squeeze bonuses until a given point ( i'd say stages 1-3,half of stage 4, half of stage 5) then point-blank stuff like a madman (uhm, the other two halves but also part of stage 2).

At this point, i think that you DON'T max out, but get a very high multiplier by the end of stage 5. you do the whole section with the...flowers zooming up before the boss by point-blanking, then MAYBE squeeze off the last possible bonuses on the boss. I had a good run in score attack mode yesterday and got +31k as the final value for medals, by dying at the very last attack. You have to consider, though, that i am still relatively conservative about the amount of spam i leave on screen (and all the circular things during the first half are meant to be used for 2 reflections at least, since they do two spams).

One interesting thing is that stage 4 and stage 5 are two different variations fo the same style: in stage 4 you should reduce to a minimum the usage of the shot, whereas in stage 5 it's necessary in order to rack-up points, as enemies are thougher...

Need to make a few experiments, but i think i'm grasping the basics of the fourth boss at least...
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:26 pm 


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Quote:
You have to consider, though, that i am still relatively conservative about the amount of spam i leave on screen (and all the circular things during the first half are meant to be used for 2 reflections at least, since they do two spams).


Yeah, I'd say this is one of the trickiest parts in the game. I played this stage about an hour yesterday and this is all very plan intensive. Central bits fire a slow moving sludge of bullets, outer bits fire walls of aimed shots. Then there's the teleporting guys that will appear a few extra if you destroy them faster. With the line guys I find it best to push the line upwards towards them. With the central pieces the flare out of the reflect does a nice job. With the teleporting guys I hover over. I just need to set it all up perfectly. The best I've got up to the power-up carrier after the final platform is 12,000 medals. I have to think that isn't too shabby.

By the end of the stage ~27,000, with ~25 seconds remaining.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:09 pm 



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I dont' remember the value after that first phase, but it's more or less the same, i think, with a total of 21k after the stage and about 34k (but died and made another reflect) at the boss, 7 secs...
Will try out a few things :?
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:10 pm 



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Rob, i'm putting here some notes.

First, i had the usual Randorama's run, yesterday (i.e. shitty first stages, great perfomance on last ones). I did a few mistakes here and there, but i think that the swirling attack from the second form of fourth boss, if reflected for the kill, can be worth,alone, 3k medals. I was at 101M multiplier (don't laugh! :oops: ) at the beginning of the fourth stage and racked up 140M on it, and i made a couple of big mistakes. Arrived at 350 by the end of the game, as i played conservatively at the fifth stage...The medallion is actually easy, and frankly must be a quick kill: even if you just reflect, you can't rack up more thank 13-14k medals, what you get in multiplier increase, you lose in time bonus...

One note on the fifth boss: all of initial attacks are easy and more rewarding to reflect if you dodge the initial part of the stream to close in, as you can then basically clean the rest of the attack by one reflection.Also, i think that the blue rotating spreads (first attack of the second form) have specific safe spots.

Going to post the new score, any new findings?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:43 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
Rob, i'm putting here some notes.

First, i had the usual Randorama's run, yesterday (i.e. shitty first stages, great perfomance on last ones). I did a few mistakes here and there, but i think that the swirling attack from the second form of fourth boss, if reflected for the kill, can be worth,alone, 3k medals. I was at 101M multiplier (don't laugh! :oops: ) at the beginning of the fourth stage and racked up 140M on it, and i made a couple of big mistakes. Arrived at 350 by the end of the game, as i played conservatively at the fifth stage...The medallion is actually easy, and frankly must be a quick kill: even if you just reflect, you can't rack up more thank 13-14k medals, what you get in multiplier increase, you lose in time bonus...

One note on the fifth boss: all of initial attacks are easy and more rewarding to reflect if you dodge the initial part of the stream to close in, as you can then basically clean the rest of the attack by one reflection.Also, i think that the blue rotating spreads (first attack of the second form) have specific safe spots.

Going to post the new score, any new findings?

I'm the exact opposite: opening levels are good, later levels things start to fall apart (despite me practicing them dozens of times, still nervous and start risk control). Last game (and yes I remember the numbers!):

score: 1405kei
1- 72m mult. (low)
2- 78m (high)
3- 50m (avg.)
4- 120m
5- 100m (died w/ 2-3 reflects remaining)
6- negligible
total- 420m

Had to have lost 2-5 thousand medals on 4 and 5, so I think 500m is a solid goal to shoot for. Possibly need to milk the 3rd boss. Safe spots on 5th would be nice.

I'm going to take a break from playing for a few days and just observe the piecemeal gameplay footage I recorded, frame by frame. I'll see if I can post something helpful by then. :)

For the 4th boss, do you mean 1 reflect for 3000 medals? I think I get 2-3 thousand in two reflects on that pattern (if we're thinking of the same one, first pattern). Hmm.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:45 pm 


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Oh, and have you ever destroyed that crystal on stage 5?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:54 pm 



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Rob, sorry for the hiatus on the thread.

As for the entry for today:

How so you approach the section between the two mid-bosses on stage 4?

for the cube:,no, but i suspect that, aside the method proposed in the journal, you can milk it fa a ton of SMs (Shot Medals). I need to polish the crappy end of that section, most of the time i have to bomb because the barges arrive and corner me. Also, can you give me a breakdown of the first three stages in their "subsections"?
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:58 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
How so you approach the section between the two mid-bosses on stage 4?

Sloppily. Do you mean the part where there are two vertical lines of small ground enemies moving donwards and bigger ones in the central area? I just wait for a reflect and run over as many of them as I can. I was thinking, though, that if you get some zig-zagging pattern down you could probably destroy the central larger enemies by their blue bullets, since they all shoot in unison at about a 1-2 second intervals. The part after that I'm still trying to figure out. It would be pretty confusing to describe anyways since I don't have proper names for the enemy types.

Quote:
Also, can you give me a breakdown of the first three stages in their "subsections"?

What are you wanting specifically? Medal counts/multiplier values I get or details?

stage 2 - 10,000 medals before the first of the wing unfolding enemies. 21-22,000 before the boss (25-30m multiplier). 24,000+ after the boss (65-80m multiplier).

stage 3 - 9,000 before the second train, 15,000 by the end (20-25m), a measely amount on the boss where probably much of the multiplier gain is in shot medals (50m). I destroy the boss with about 25 seconds remaining, which makes for the first decent level bonus (~75kei).

I'm still playing but making slooow progress. I'm working out level 5 and 4, since I think I'm a little behind in those stages. I think I'll probably make a 200-300kei improvement at most.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 2:59 am 


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Upped level 1 and 2 highs (87m and 81m respectively). In the same game, so things were going well (217m total at the end of 3) for awhile there. I should just keep refining stage 1 until I hit 100m, while botching the last few stages completely.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 4:22 pm 



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Uhm, i'm completely behind you on stages 1 and 2, a little less (13k+ boss) on stage 3. Just to give you an idea, i seem not to get more than 65M on stage 1 and 55M on stage 2, if you can give me some hints on how to place reflections on those stages... :wink:

I go way better on the fourth and fifth stage. Yesterday i got 150M on the fourth (and it was a bit of luck, as i almost botched the spiralling attack: if you can reflect the final part, so you will only have to deal with the needles spam, it's easy: as i said in the journal, the upper corners are safe spots).

The tough section: after the first mid-boss, you have the diving eagles (or angels, or whatever...) and the ones who shoot the purple streams. This entire section has to be about timing, as it seems that once you can zig-zag around doing "distant corner from the purple spammer-reflection on the diving eagles and then on the purple spammers-charge and repeat", this part is easy. Once you have the central tanks and the side cars, you should be able to place another reflection.Then, i'm lost: the two main turrets on the sides, i think must be used to clear all the remaining cars and tanks, being able to reflect the purple needles as soon as they appear. In this way, you *should* be able to refill for the group of eagles just before the second mid-boss.I try to place three reflections and some shot medals on this one...

Fifth stage: again, i think the key is is the large amount of shot medals.The basic idea on the first section is this: reflect first and second spam on the circular enemies, use the pods shooting the red streams for shot medals or for strenghtening your reflections, especially against the teleporting barges. The design is basically: inner ring->reflection, outer ring->shooting (the pods). The second section actually relies on using the green spam to quickly take out the big pink towers, else they will take forever to explode...which is very difficult, as you have to herd the green spam, any safe ideas :? ?

Finally, the boss: if you start quite angled, it has the nice habit of shooting the interference pattern (the green bullets on the first stream, for instance) at easily dodgeable angles.For the rest, if you can dodge the first attack of second form, tell me how :wink:

Now my proposal for a max out is:

1.100M 2.190M 3.260M 4.510M 5.960M 6.999M

What do you think of it :?
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:18 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
Uhm, i'm completely behind you on stages 1 and 2, a little less (13k+ boss) on stage 3. Just to give you an idea, i seem not to get more than 65M on stage 1 and 55M on stage 2, if you can give me some hints on how to place reflections on those stages... :wink:

Hints, hmm. I honestly don't know what to say without detailing the entire stage, since they are so fast (unlike GW2) and it's a lot of small things. One thing I did realize yesterday is that you can reflect 3 times on the large tank of Island with perfect timing if you don't shoot it. Sometimes I need to keep the shot/reflect button held down in anticipation of a reflect (while it recharges), so I don't shoot what I want to reflect against. Boss: reflect as many bullets on the first form (shoot constantly on second), should include the dual blue stream attack twice. How vague is that?

Volcano... the winged enemies that shoot out the blue/red streams are more helpful than my hints. Make sure you get all of the last fold out enemies when they've folded out, since I think those are all +50 medals. When there's lots of enemies zipping around the screen (you know, that middle section), concentrate on getting all of the shiny gold medals (maybe you already do this, but it's a change for me since I tried to do this while close range killing, which is essentially pointless). Even the really small medals are sometimes worth +30. Since you can have 23,000+ medals to start (if you really score all of those +50s), this boss is worth quite a lot if managed properly. I shoot the central part, but not too much or it flips over. Reflect bullets against the wings, destroying them when I want it to flip over.

Maybe too obvious? I can't be more specific unless there's a specific section. :P

Quote:
Then, i'm lost: the two main turrets on the sides, i think must be used to clear all the remaining cars and tanks, being able to reflect the purple needles as soon as they appear. In this way, you *should* be able to refill for the group of eagles just before the second mid-boss.I try to place three reflections and some shot medals on this one...

This part is one of my weakest parts in the game. I reflect the leftmost one's bullets at it, one of those angel enemies (horizontally moving) pops in and I hit it with the flare out. Then I move to the upper lefthand corner, the meter recharges right when the two angel enemies drop vertically, I move horizontally to clear them. One drops from the center, I destroy that. Two more angel enemies appear (horizontally moving) and I have one more charge for them. But often this makes it so that I get trapped when the large enemy appears and starts shooting the slow moving blue streams. I need to work on it. Also at the beginning I probably let a few of the mid-sized tanks escape. I need to clean up my destruction rates.

Quote:
Fifth stage: again, i think the key is is the large amount of shot medals.The basic idea on the first section is this: reflect first and second spam on the circular enemies, use the pods shooting the red streams for shot medals or for strenghtening your reflections, especially against the teleporting barges. The design is basically: inner ring->reflection, outer ring->shooting (the pods). The second section actually relies on using the green spam to quickly take out the big pink towers, else they will take forever to explode...which is very difficult, as you have to herd the green spam, any safe ideas :? ?

First part - I think you do better on this part than I do, but there's no way I'm changing what I do now! I practiced it dozens of times and don't do too bad (12,700 is my high, and I think you said you get 13,000+, so it's not too far off).

Second part - What I do isn't completely ideal, but it gets the job done. First two (I'll use your term) towers, no green bullets. I reflect twice on top of the rightmost one, destroy it. Move to the left, shoot, reflect (green bullets start to appear and I get a few lines of them). Now there's the four towers. Since the bottom one doesn't shoot I move to that one slowly to the right, shooting. As I have the meter recharged I take the right one, reflecting and shooting. It blows up right after the reflect dies off. I move back to the bottom tower, shooting, slowly to the left. Repeat, then back to the bottom tower and it finally blows up. With the final reflect (uppermost tower) I wait for the reflect to die out before shooting. Then to the upper left corner for the next section.

Quote:
if you can dodge the first attack of second form, tell me how :wink:

Hah, my only hope is a little luck so far. This is my number 1 bomb spot after the first reflect.

Quote:
1.100M 2.190M 3.260M 4.510M 5.960M 6.999M

The first three stages seem reasonable to me, but then my mind is blown. I'm have troubles securing 120+m results on 4. I think stage 5 is way too high, but you would know better than me. I stop milking bosses on the second, but if you can get a few hundred million extra it's certainly worth it before stage 5 at least. I honestly don't think you will get ~40m on stage 6, simply because you'll want to destroy it as quickly as possible, and this will be before it starts shooting out anything substantial. Your medal total will be around 4-5000 range, which doesn't amount to much.


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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 1:27 pm 



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Rob wrote:
Boss: reflect as many bullets on the first form (shoot constantly on second), should include the dual blue stream attack twice. How vague is that?

Basically you're telling to just reflect on first form?If so, i have surely only 2 of the three blue streams covered - i shoot so after the green whiplash attacks, i can get the second blue stream, and reflect allo together.Do you actually time-out?



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Since you can have 23,000+ medals to start (if you really score all of those +50s), this boss is worth quite a lot if managed properly. I shoot the central part, but not too much or it flips over. Reflect bullets against the wings, destroying them when I want it to flip over.


Yes, i'm improving this part and seeing benefits.When you trigger the second form (what second)?



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Also at the beginning I probably let a few of the mid-sized tanks escape. I need to clean up my destruction rates.


Ah, damn - i'm sure we're doing the same, even if slightly different, mistakes, maybe they're specular or whatever...I'm a bit lost right now, i'm sure that it's about one key reflection to between the first blue needles spray from the towers, the other reflections should come almost by default (i.e. you should be ready for the right attack by simply re-charging the shield).


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First part - I think you do better on this part than I do, but there's no way I'm changing what I do now! I practiced it dozens of times and don't do too bad (12,700 is my high, and I think you said you get 13,000+, so it's not too far off).


Ah no, i'm pretty inconsistent on this one. I know that sometimes i get the right times and get13k+, maybe even with one or two mistakes, Else we're in the same range :?
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I move back to the bottom tower, shooting, slowly to the left. Repeat, then back to the bottom tower and it finally blows up. With the final reflect (uppermost tower) I wait for the reflect to die out before shooting. Then to the upper left corner for the next section.


Ah, don't you get any cornering problems? Is tapping enough to keep at bay the green bullets?else i may switch back to that tecnique...

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Hah, my only hope is a little luck so far. This is my number 1 bomb spot after the first reflect.


Yeah, it surely revolves about some principle of simmetry to be used for the overlapping rotational attacks (i.e. you have to put yourself in a way that makes one safe spot for one rotating attack be useful for the others as well), but i seriously have problems in...computing that one. I also admit that i would feel happy if this becomes the only bomb that i have to use in the whole game.

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I honestly don't think you will get ~40m on stage 6, simply because you'll want to destroy it as quickly as possible, and this will be before it starts shooting out anything substantial. Your medal total will be around 4-5000 range, which doesn't amount to much.


Yeah, but beside that - as i said in the journal, i think that stages 4 and five revolve around getting a lot (seriously, a lot!) of shot medals, which are the possible key.Just to give you an idea, the eagles are worth 20 shot medals, the pods on the fifth stages 25 (i think), and so on...if, like i think, point blanking with a reflection and shooting at the very last moment can grant you both types, i can see how to consistently increase those values. Also, both bosses are pretty tough, so a lot of shot medals off them doesn't sound like a bad idea...

This comes from the consideration that the value increase, given the basic adding value of +3 instead of +1, makes the overall reflect-only counts pretty low... the basic formula is 3(n(n+1)/2, as if you go +3 by +3, it means that you have reflected 10k medals if you arrive at +30k value (exluding the ones with higher value too). Shot medals are based on the highest value of reflect medals, so you have to balance these two principles in order to maximize your multiplier scores...In itself, it's pretty ingenous, but such an engine is proving to be harder to handle than i thought.

Unless is something very simple, like i said:one quick shot for score medals before the enemy dies out of the reflect medals, and shooting the enemies that aren't worth any reflections (this is surely the case for scenery!).
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 7:28 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
Rob wrote:
Boss: reflect as many bullets on the first form (shoot constantly on second), should include the dual blue stream attack twice. How vague is that?

Basically you're telling to just reflect on first form?If so, i have surely only 2 of the three blue streams covered - i shoot so after the green whiplash attacks, i can get the second blue stream, and reflect allo together.Do you actually time-out?

It seems like you do exactly what I do. I just shoot a bit after the green bullets to trigger the second reflect-capable blue stream attack. Do you have fewer medals before the boss? I'm consistently over 18,000, about 30m for the multiplier. Otherwise not sure how to account for the difference.

Quote:
When you trigger the second form (what second)?

Not sure if you're asking second as in time or 2nd as in what second form. I mean more a second sequence than form. If timing, I'm still working on it, but at the moment it's right at about the blue circular attacks from the central point. I think I could probably let it go a few more seconds since I keep destroying it early. I'd like to let the first few bosses time out or nearly. Even as it times out you can still get a few shot medals, so I'd like to take it to the absolute end.

Managed to get 24-25,000 before boss on stage 2, so this stage is just getting more and more fun. I'm sure it's possible to get 100m on this stage too.

Quote:
Quote:
I move back to the bottom tower, shooting, slowly to the left. Repeat, then back to the bottom tower and it finally blows up. With the final reflect (uppermost tower) I wait for the reflect to die out before shooting. Then to the upper left corner for the next section.


Ah, don't you get any cornering problems? Is tapping enough to keep at bay the green bullets?else i may switch back to that tecnique...

Yeah, tapping works perfectly.

Quote:
Yeah, but beside that - as i said in the journal, i think that stages 4 and five revolve around getting a lot (seriously, a lot!) of shot medals, which are the possible key.Just to give you an idea, the eagles are worth 20 shot medals, the pods on the fifth stages 25 (i think), and so on...if, like i think, point blanking with a reflection and shooting at the very last moment can grant you both types, i can see how to consistently increase those values.

Have you noticed a difference in any section by trying this? Like at the end of stage 4 after the +500 medal enemy? Seems like it would be really difficult to pull off because of the weapon's lack of precision. I feel that GWG is different from the first two games in that there's no window for extra medals before an enemy blows up. In the first few there would be a difference between reflecting over an enemy and rushing towards an enemy with reflected bullets (much more effective). In GWG there doesn't seem to be any drawback to reflecting directly over an enemy (actually, I seem to get more since no bullet or medal escapes).

Do you know if there's a difference in power-shot medals released? Like what if you didn't grab the power-ups, since they aren't given a medal value. It would take longer to destroy something, but does that mean a slower release of shot medals? I haven't tested this, but it's an idea. It seems like I've gotten less shot medals from being up close than at a distance (same power, but more focused in the first instance).


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 4:33 pm 



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Rob wrote:
It seems like you do exactly what I do. I just shoot a bit after the green bullets to trigger the second reflect-capable blue stream attack. Do you have fewer medals before the boss? I'm consistently over 18,000, about 30m for the multiplier. Otherwise not sure how to account for the difference.


Oh, go figure, barely 16k+. Can you give me a breakdown of the stage? I think i'm missing a few critical spots.Boss is more or less the same, at least.

Quote:
I'd like to let the first few bosses time out or nearly. Even as it times out you can still get a few shot medals, so I'd like to take it to the absolute end.


I mean, at which second (of the timer) you trigger the second form?In general, which attacks you reflect, on second boss?

On the stage...yeah, i'm improving it a lot, i'm behind you but now i can make sense of it, very funny as it dwells more on medal-collecting :wink:



Quote:
In GWG there doesn't seem to be any drawback to reflecting directly over an enemy (actually, I seem to get more since no bullet or medal escapes).


I think that the key to this specific chapter is point-blanking to reflect medals and shooting at the same time. In this regard, it truly plays like Mars Matrix II with a GW shield mechanic. If this is the case, the *very difficult* thing to do all the time is reflecting and immediately shooting enemies...i think that stage 4 just lacks sections in which to rack a lot of shot-based medals whereas stage 5, like stage 2, lets you pump up your multiplier a lot by big-value medals and though enemies. I mean, the towers or the pods that shoot just a few bullets or no bullets at all seem to point into that direction. If this is the wrong approach then, well, we're still missing a very basic part of the puzzle, to say the least :wink:


I need to check if not powering up has a sense, let's talk about this in the next post :wink:
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 8:10 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
Oh, go figure, barely 16k+. Can you give me a breakdown of the stage? I think i'm missing a few critical spots.Boss is more or less the same, at least.

I'm not sure what to detail, and I really don't want to type out everything, but here's some reference points (one reflect unless noted otherwise):

1300 after ground planes, turrets, 2 power-up carriers (2 reflects)
2500 after tanks
4000 next reflect
6500 (this is a place where I sometimes lose about 500, but can't figure out why...)
8500
10000 (reflect on winged enemy, tank)
11000 (2 reflects on tank)
12000
14000 after second "midboss"
15000 first pair of winged enemies
16000 second
17000 green line shooting targets (I rarely trigger the secret here)
18000 after the waves of enemies
---
23000+ after boss

Quote:
I mean, at which second (of the timer) you trigger the second form?In general, which attacks you reflect, on second boss?

Circles of blue bullets twice, then the inner blue circular blasts. Second form- hover reflect over left wing, blue line attack, green spread from center. I think this boss is more about what and when to shoot, too (more than the others).

Quote:
I think that the key to this specific chapter is point-blanking to reflect medals and shooting at the same time. In this regard, it truly plays like Mars Matrix II with a GW shield mechanic. ... I mean, the towers or the pods that shoot just a few bullets or no bullets at all seem to point into that direction. If this is the wrong approach then, well, we're still missing a very basic part of the puzzle, to say the least :wink:

I think if you shoot an enemy, you're taking away possible reflected bullets. I'm pretty sure you should only shoot when there's nothing to reflect against it or it doesn't offer anything to reflect, like the towers. I don't think there is much we're "missing" at this point. I think it's a straightforward game... I just see many places where I'm only doing 50-70% as good as I probably should be doing, enemies I don't destroy, enemies I only get that 50-70% point value from, medal opportunities missed or only partly capitalized on. I think the Robin record would be somewhere around 1800-2000k (that 3+ is tag play, I'm 100% certain). The Grouse and Hawk or Eagle records are 1000k and 1200k, which seems right with their clumsy attacks and speed, but it still wouldn't be 1/3rd of Robin's. I tried the planes out and while they sucked I still managed to get 60+m multiplier on the first stage, which seems about right to me. I chalk up any remaining gap solely to unrefined play.

I just want to get 1500-1700k since I don't want to kill myself over a few more points like Shikigami 2, but right now I'm playing Dragon Blaze. Good luck. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:08 pm 



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Uhm, late as always...

Ok, things are improving, but also want to play something else, even if the score attack mode proves bery useful for, uh, practice.

I should put some notes on my journal for personal progress, but in general, i think that:

The perfect kill ratio (100%) may be far more important than it seems, i tried to figure it out, but unless i'm having reading problems, it's basically 10 times the normal ratio bonus; if not, we should check if there's a progressive increase in it...for instance, 20M for the second perfect bonus, 30M for the third, etc. Bombs are negligible in this regard, time and destruction rate are the main bulk of the bonus.

Let's say that i get a destruction rate of 100% (1OM? 100M? I really have problems reading all those zeros, can you take a pic,please?), plus a good time bonus (25 secs,thus 25M), 4 bombs (4M) all this on the fifth boss, at a maxed out multiplier...129M*1B=129 kei.If you get more, for instance the said progressive value, , it would mean 5*100M for five 100% destruction rates in a row, with a basic value of: 500+25+4=529 kei for the fifth stage, to give you an idea. I'm pretty sure this factor plays a part: if it is revealed to be very big by doing some specific actions, i can see easily the 3,2k+ kei scores, and the difference between Robin and the other planes. If not, i'll just take the Hawk record down, as no one uses it for a good reason: it causes A LOT of frameskipping, i bet this is why people complained so much.
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