Historical prices of PCB's

[goutpatrol]

First of all, sorry if this is in the wrong section (Hardware? Trading Station?), but I have a question regarding the prices of PCB's (specifically shmup PCB's, hence my posting in this forum). After years of owning two candy cabs; one mamed Kyotaro and one New Astro City running most all of the Dreamcast shmup library via an MGCD, I've decided to start buying PCB's. Searching through the shmup boards has raised many questions in my mind regarding costs. I'll preface my questions by saying, I have three "price lists" I am going off of:

1. Trading Station posts past and present
2. excellentcom's newest price list
3. coinopexpress's price list

What I have gathered from these numbers is that as a PCB is released, it will typically cost in the range of 2000 dollars (rough estimate). At this time it's still prominently featured in arcades, and the high cost could be offset by generating money. After a year or two, that will drop approximately in half. Two more years and you have games sitting in the 200 to 600 dollar range. After that, they will typically fall further towards the 200 dollar range. This of course is referring to bare PCB's. I would assume full kits hold their value or possibly appreciate as time goes by and they become harder to come across.

Aside from age, what variables cause a PCB's price to drop? Does emulation play a factor? Release of console ports? For example, I've heard repeatedly that Ketsui is an "expensive" game, but is that expensive relative to games of a similar age? I still see it listed for sate in the 700 dollar range, and compared to Death Smiles, that's not so expensive. And why did Ibara drop so low when compared to games of a similar age? Has there been an overall increase in price due to cave's surge of popularity? If so, has that effected all shmups (even the older ones)?

I know it's a lot of questions, but I'm just trying to understand the flow of PCB pricing. Consoles are straight forward; most mass produced games you drop a set price down knowing that it has depreciated (a lot) the minute you open it. However, collecting Dreamcast shmups has shown me that there are cases where you need to buy immediatly. Short supply and a niche audience means the game will hold its value at least, and will be hard to find in the future. With PCB's though, it seems only an elite few buy the games when they first come out. After some time, they bottom out in price, but remain relatively accessible (for example some of the older games from the 90's are still easy enough to find and not too expensive). So "rarity" seems to be less of an issue.

Anyways, just come questions I've been kicking around. Thanks for any help you can give.

[dpful]

As far as my collecting goes- I don't by anything from japanese auctions- Rarity is an issue. A lot of games I have, I've only seen once in 2 or 3 years at a time.
The coinop express price list seems to be considered top dollar, or a nice "retail" price for most stuff (you can always get everything a bit cheaper- just when it comes up-- rarity thing).

The serious collecting thing (expensive full kits, big bucks for a cardboard box, cave stuff), seems to be rather new to me- maybe happing in just the last 2 to 5 years or so. Besides that, I'd say everything depreciates VERY steadily. For example, a naomi shmup will have dropped but a cave game from the same year won't have.

One thing to learn would be to differentiate which ones are being collected for money and which one's are not (which ones will continue to depreciate), so you can avoid or go for either. (I'm not an expert on what is staying expensive, but I'd love to know-- to avoid it, or rather, no not get my hopes set on owning it).

I think, if you were lucky enough to catch past ebay listings on a certain board, that would be the best gauge of what it's worth.

[djvinc]

Everything ysay is quite right,
Ibara dropped quickly because it was not so popular,
Ketsui dropped to 400-500 USD, then rises again because people admit it's a good game, and somewhat rare.

[Jet Black]

Why is ESP Ra.De so cheap compared to any other Cave PCB except Donpachi although its still not ported?

[Stan]

Why is ESP Ra.De so cheap compared to any other Cave PCB except Donpachi although its still not ported?

Maybe because its mamed ??.

[sven666]

Why is ESP Ra.De so cheap compared to any other Cave PCB except Donpachi although its still not ported?

dodonpachi is ported and MAMEd AND the PCB is hella common and still it has been on the rise last year or so.. go figure.

[CIT]

Esprade has been on the rise a little too, though, no?

[cools]

[maybe]DDP gets more popular due to MAME + ports. As people learn MAME sucks, PCBs change hands. Price increasing slightly each time due to covering original cost (inc shipping) and the new shipping.[/maybe]

[dpful]

I think there's just hype about cave stuff.
10 years ago, PCB collectors were officially junk collectors (I would go to operators warehouses to literally buy their "junk").

Now, as the culture expands a bit, and the demand has gone up for random stuff (whatever the most people want, whether DDP, ESPrade, Ketsui,..) the prices have gone up.
It's frustrating for me to find that someone has decided to add high value to all the junk I wanted. I tell myself I'll just have to wait 5 years (and hope that the popularity wanes). Maybe all the expensive games will get mamed and then I can get them cheap- or just play them in mame for that matter.

I think that there's just enough people collecting right now, that if you want to keep it cheap, you just can't pick popular games.

As for the kit phenomenon--- serious collectors only.

Bottom line: Discovering badd-ass junk to collect is a wonderfull thing.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The idea of getting some of your favorite mid 1980's to early 1990's arcade shmup PCBs on the cheap...it's whatever the buyer is willing to pay for said arcade PCB title and if the seller agrees with said price -- then a sale has been completed... ^_~

The reason why Cave Ibara PCB kit is in the $280.00 - $300.00 USD range because of a massive glut of PCB kits that Cave flooded the market with...limit supply and demand, and the price will go up if the demand exceeds supply.

It was just a few years back that a barebones Cave Ketsui PCB was selling for a mere $200.00+ USD from 2nd-hand arcade PCB shops...word got around that it was better than what was being spread on the Internet and thus, the price for it shot up really quickly + the fact that Cave said no to an official PS2 Ketsui port at the time contributed to this price increase as well...

Sure, I've had my fair share of playing on a Ketsui PCB and passed it on to another fellow shumpper...it's a "hard and kick's your ass" type of Cave shmup PCB title. I don't think it's worth the commanding prices that current Ketsui PCB sellers are asking these days though...

If you wants a Ketsui PCB badly enough, be prepared to "bite the bullet and pay through the nose" for one..... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[skinny goon]

Regarding non-shooter PCBs, I'm pretty put-off by the current prices of some PCBS that I always considered common. Strider being my main point here. Didn't it used to sell for less than $100(maybe 60-80?) just a couple years ago?

All the recent acutions/sales of it that I remember seeing have been well over that price point.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Regarding non-shooter PCBs, I'm pretty put-off by the current prices of some PCBS that I always considered common. Strider being my main point here. Didn't it used to sell for less than $100(maybe 60-80?) just a couple years ago?

All the recent acutions/sales of it that I remember seeing have been well over that price point.

Tis true is your observation of the CPS1-based Strider arcade Jamma PCB...if there are many folks who wanted it badly enough, the price for it will rise... ^_~

I recall back in 2000, there was an eBay auction for a Seibu Kaihatsu SP1 mobo with Viper Phase 1 U.S.A. cart -- the going price went for over $200.00+ USD easily. I'm not sure who won it but he or she paid a very pretty penny for the SP1 arcade mobo + shmup cart combo, indeed..... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[sven666]

I recall back in 2000, there was an eBay auction for a Seibu Kaihatsu SP1 mobo with Viper Phase 1 U.S.A. cart -- the going price went for over $200.00+ USD easily. I'm not sure who won it but he or she paid a very pretty penny for the SP1 arcade mobo + shmup cart combo, indeed.....

im not actually sure if this is a joke post but it made me laugh anyways.

[Zebra Airforce]

What about games like Gradius 2 and 3, or Raiden?

[elfhentaifan]

thats pretty close to historical

[Erinu]

[maybe]DDP gets more popular due to MAME + ports. As people learn MAME sucks, PCBs change hands. Price increasing slightly each time due to covering original cost (inc shipping) and the new shipping.[/maybe]

DDP costs more because it's more popular.

[sven666]

thats pretty close to historical

no picture either.. haha.

[goutpatrol]

I think there's just hype about cave stuff.
10 years ago, PCB collectors were officially junk collectors (I would go to operators warehouses to literally buy their "junk").

I think this is a good point; years ago when I was buying my first games and cabinets (before I even knew of Japanese candy cabs), I was often rescuing them from the garbage. I think the nature of arcade games led to many "non-gamers" (for lack of a better term) buying them. A restaurant or bar owner likely (from my experience) knows nothing of JAMMA or PCB's; they buy a game to make a little money, and when it gets to be a burden, it's disposed of. Game and cabinet are one in the same. This in part is why I respect the MAME projects initiative to try and archive these things.

Also, JAMMA or not, the typical American cab seems very "branded" if that makes any sense. Japanese cabinets are a bit more modular, and one game could typically fit in just as easy as another without seeming out of place. I guess that's why up until getting my Kyotaro and Astro City, I shied away from buying PCB's.

Anyways, the point is, up until now, I've never watched the price of newly released arcade games. Arcades are all but gone in my part of the world, and aside from big dedicated cabs like DDR, I rarely see any games at all. I just wanted to get an idea of what prices were like, and what variables affected them.

So thanks for answering. It sounds like it's simply a matter of greater accessibility (imported PCB's and Japanese cabs) and a general rise in popularity of the shmups genre that has led to a slight rise in cost... and that's understandable.

[Frederik]

[maybe]DDP gets more popular due to MAME + ports. As people learn MAME sucks, PCBs change hands. Price increasing slightly each time due to covering original cost (inc shipping) and the new shipping.[/maybe]

DDP costs more because it's more popular.

Also, it´s not because people "learn MAME sucks". Many people are just collectors or decide they really love this game and have to own it. I mean, I own a R4DS for my DS and I still buy games that I really like.

[dpful]

Regarding non-shooter PCBs, I'm pretty put-off by the current prices of some PCBS that I always considered common. Strider being my main point here. Didn't it used to sell for less than $100(maybe 60-80?) just a couple years ago?

All the recent acutions/sales of it that I remember seeing have been well over that price point.

Tis true is your observation of the CPS1-based Strider arcade Jamma PCB...if there are many folks who wanted it badly enough, the price for it will rise... ^_~

I recall back in 2000, there was an eBay auction for a Seibu Kaihatsu SP1 mobo with Viper Phase 1 U.S.A. cart -- the going price went for over $200.00+ USD easily. I'm not sure who won it but he or she paid a very pretty penny for the SP1 arcade mobo + shmup cart combo, indeed..... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

I've always remembered strider as being one that cost a lot. I bought mine for 150$ and thought it was a great deal (they were going for 200 on ebay then- that was years ago).

I also paid 250$ for my viper phase 1. That was the first time I spent big bucks on a single PCB. It seems SP1 stuff just dropped in the last couple of years.