Darius Force/Super Nova...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:05 am

Am I the only one that thinks this game is an extremely underrated masterpiece? It pains me to see both of the Darius games on SNES(Twin and Force) always getting slammed by harsh reviews. I certainly don't think it deserves being written off as a piece of crap, I like it. Not only do I enjoy the increased challenge factor as opposed to the previous game, Darius Twin(which was somewhat on the easy side), I also like the creepy, atmospheric music, innovative bosses, utilization of the cool mode7 graphic effects(scaling, rotation, warping, transparency, etc), not to mention the fact you can choose between 3 ships. It also keeps with the tradition of all Darius games, allowing you to choose your own path, an innovative feature that adds replay value, a feature not present in the more popular Gradius games.

If nothing else, I think it is a great sequel to Darius Twin, and a great challenge for the skilled gamer.

I might as well add a poll...

overdrive · Post by **overdrive** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:54 am

I've played it enough to feel THIS Darius is a bit underrated. It's not the greatest 16-bit shmup out there, but it's definitely one of the better SNES ones.

On the other hand, I really disliked Darius Twin. I'd played it right after playing with the SuperGrafx Darius Plus and I just felt that Twin was a subpar take on its predecessor with nothing going for it other than multiplayer capacity. Fewer levels, less challenge and the bosses didn't look as cool (although a couple of the late-game ones were pretty fun fights).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:31 pm

On the other hand, I really disliked Darius Twin. I'd played it right after playing with the SuperGrafx Darius Plus and I just felt that Twin was a subpar take on its predecessor with nothing going for it other than multiplayer capacity. Fewer levels, less challenge and the bosses didn't look as cool (although a couple of the late-game ones were pretty fun fights).

I think Darius Twin is a great game, not only because of the multiplayer support, but also because of the outstanding music soundtrack, and the folding paths. I know it is somewhat easy, although depending on what path you take, the game can be really easy or hard as hell. You can also make the game more challenging by not switching to the laser wave type of firepower, or reducing the number of lives you start with in the options. My favorite boss is Hyper Great Thing

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:57 pm

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a masterpiece but it's definitely underrated and receives undeserved criticism. Too many people expect it to be a carbon copy of the other Darius games and fail to appreciate for what it is. So what if the game features bosses who aren't fish, I thought the bosses were great and only a notch below Gaiden's. While I'm not a fan of checkpoints, I don't feel it ruins the game because all Darius games are flawed in the "power down from death" aspect. The ship variety is also a nice change of pace and the soundtrack is excellent. It would have been more fitting if Taito called this game Darius Gaiden given the "unorthodox" changes, it also might have helped people be more accepting of it.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:34 pm

It pains me to see Malc refer to Darius Force as Darius III when Darius Gaiden is actually the legitimate Darius III (now why the hell did they change the name?).

Force doesn't feel much like a Darius game for some reason but it's still a very decent game. On the other hand, Twin offered really nothing that Darius II didn't already have and better at that.

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:51 pm

Super Nova > Twin

It's a very good game, I wouldn't go as far to calling it an underrated masterpiece, though.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:02 pm

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a masterpiece but it's definitely underrated and receives undeserved criticism. Too many people expect it to be a carbon copy of the other Darius games and fail to appreciate for what it is. So what if the game features bosses who aren't fish, I thought the bosses were great and only a notch below Gaiden's. While I'm not a fan of checkpoints, I don't feel it ruins the game because all Darius games are flawed in the "power down from death" aspect. The ship variety is also a nice change of pace and the soundtrack is excellent. It would have been more fitting if Taito called this game Darius Gaiden given the "unorthodox" changes, it also might have helped people be more accepting of it.

Good points. I suppose the entire Darius series is kind of underrated, it never really took off in the states as big as it did in Japan. I'm sure the fact that Taito changed the release names of half the games when they hit the states, resulting in only 3 domestic Darius releases that actually contain the word "Darius" in the title, really helped matters.

It pains me to see Malc refer to Darius Force as Darius III when Darius Gaiden is actually the legitimate Darius III (now why the hell did they change the name?).

Actually...both counts are incorrect. Darius Twin was actually supposed to be Darius 3, I've seen previews of it in old magazines(including one of those SNES holiday buyers guides if I remember correctly) from before it was released, referring to it as Darius III. I suppose they appended "Twin" to the title to reflect the multiplayer support aspect of the game.

Super Nova > Twin

It's a very good game, I wouldn't go as far to calling it an underrated masterpiece, though.

Hearing it referred to as a very good game, I'll settle for that

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:20 pm

Dark Saibot wrote: Actually...both counts are incorrect. Darius Twin was actually supposed to be Darius 3, I've seen previews of it in old magazines(including one of those SNES holiday buyers guides if I remember correctly) from before it was released, referring to it as Darius III. I suppose they appended "Twin" to the title to reflect the multiplayer support aspect of the game.

Actually...at least one of my counts was correct and one or both of your counts are incorrect. Did you see official logos of Darius III or were magazines just referring to it as Darius III (as people are calling the Xbox 2 now)? Darius Gaiden was actually previewed at expos as Darius III with an official Darius III logo before it somehow made the name change to Darius Gaiden.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:56 am

Hmmm...I don't recall there being a logo, just "Darius III Preview" in the title. It's not extremely important I suppose, after all, Darius Twin was really the third Darius game, even if it did not officially carry the III at the end. Given the fact that no game was ever released as Darius III, one has to default to the release order when assigning chronological labels to each game, but it's really a moot point, one can only speculate, really. Got to love Taito's naming conventions at the time...

Bydo Dragon · Post by **Bydo Dragon** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:50 am

I believe Super Nova is an underrated game, although I'm on the fence about whether I like it more than Darius Twin.

Twin's music is, IMO, far better than Super Nova's, and I thought the bosses were more spectacular and fun. It is way too easy, though, and the stage designs, with the exception of stage 3, are uninspired and repetetive. Just because of the time I played Twin, I also have more fond memories attached to that game than Super Nova.

So I guess I'd say I like Darius Twin better for its music and bosses and memories, but Super Nova has better ship/stage design and more replay value.

The Bullet Dodger · Post by **The Bullet Dodger** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:49 pm

Darius Force, aka SN, is definetly an underrated SNES shmup. For me, it is the 3rd best Darius, right under Gaiden and G. Darius. The graphics were great for it's time, and for being on the SNES. The music is above average, and the gameplay is silky smooth. Every true shmupper, with a SNES, should have it in their library. And if you don't have it yet, you better find a copy now before it becomes harder to find.

But don't get me wrong! I still have much respect for Darius Twin, another great Darius title. I just think that Darius Force's cool graphics make it a more fun experience. But that's just me.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:36 pm

Twin will always be my favorite Darius game, as it was the first Darius game I ever owned/played and it really got me into the series. I think Force is just as good though, in different ways. I play Twin when I'm looking for quick, easy fun, and I play Force when I'm looking for a challenge. Both are excellent game. As far as ranking the series, here's how I place them:

Darius Twin
Darius Force/Super Nova
Darius Gaiden
Darius 2/Sagaia
Darius
G-Darius

I haven't played Darius R or Darius Zone Q yet, I'm working on a Darius R deal right now with somebody though. As you can tell I'm not a huge fan of G-Darius. Of all the games that successfully made the transition to 3D, G certainly isn't one of them. I don't like boss battles that last half an hour just because Taito wanted to show what they could do with the Playstation, and the music gives me a headache. About the only notable thing I can say about G is that they expanded the capture orb concept from Gaiden, otherwise I think the whole game is really a letdown.

The Bullet Dodger · Post by **The Bullet Dodger** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:57 pm

Dark Saibot wrote:Twin will always be my favorite Darius game, as it was the first Darius game I ever owned/played and it really got me into the series. I think Force is just as good though, in different ways. I play Twin when I'm looking for quick, easy fun, and I play Force when I'm looking for a challenge. Both are excellent game. As far as ranking the series, here's how I place them:

Darius Twin
Darius Force/Super Nova
Darius Gaiden
Darius 2/Sagaia
Darius
G-Darius

I haven't played Darius R or Darius Zone Q yet, I'm working on a Darius R deal right now with somebody though. As you can tell I'm not a huge fan of G-Darius. Of all the games that successfully made the transition to 3D, G certainly isn't one of them. I don't like boss battles that last half an hour just because Taito wanted to show what they could do with the Playstation, and the music gives me a headache. About the only notable thing I can say about G is that they expanded the capture orb concept from Gaiden, otherwise I think the whole game is really a letdown.

I agree with you Dark Saibot. I too am a Darius fan. And those boss battles in G. do tend to get annoying after a while. BUT, you have to admit the bosses do look awesome in G.

The one thing that makes G. Darius my favorite in the series is that incredible laser shot you get after using the capture ball (especially on a big size enemy). And the laser battles you encounter with the bosses are amazing. Sometimes the laser fills up the entire screen!

If a new Darius game ever comes out, I hope this awesome feature is included.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:37 am

I suppose I have played worse games than G-Darius. I guess I just expected too much before I got it, then when I actually did get it I was disappointed. I do like the capture orb thing though, if nothing else.

In case anybody is innterested, I am writing an in-depth FAQ for Darius Force. The one on GameFAQS.com really sucks. If anybody is interested in reading my FAQ when it is done, let me know, otherwise I am going to submit it to GameFAQs. I may also write one for Darius Twin, there's not really a good Twin FAQ out there either.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:34 am

I haven't played Super Nova terribly much because it always kicks my ass: enemies coming from behind, plentiful arrays of bullets coming from multiple streams of enemies, and things move pretty fast for an SNES shmup. I like the controls, graphics, and it definitely is not boring. Perhaps I need to play it when I am less tired sometime.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:10 pm

I know it is not an easy game by any means, although I have beaten it many times, which is why I am writing a FAQ/Walkthrough for it.

Generally the idea is to avoid getting hit more than trying to destroy everything else...that's how you stay alive the longest in the game. Once you've learned all the boss patterns, the battles are not extremely difficult.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:26 pm

I'm trying to play Super Nova, but it's kicking my ass...damn this game is hard....no respawn, 3 lives...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:17 pm

Give yourself five lives in the options

Also, try beating it on easy level first...and I find the green ship is the best out of the three.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:40 am

Thanks for the tips!

I really would like to get into this game, as it seems to me among the better SNES shmups, at least among the 10 or so I own.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:25 am

Ok finally beat Super Nova on easy, this game is not as bad as I thought, it's certainly worth a look, if only to check out the awesome confrontation with the last boss.

It has pretty interesting bosses for a Darius game, especially that last boss. Not just the generic fish/aquatic bosses.

It's one of the top 5 shmups on SNES I think, I like it a lot more than Axelay.

LASERBEAST · Post by **LASERBEAST** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:41 am

I actually kinda wish there was a "middle of the road" voting option. I wouldn't call the game an "underrated masterpiece", but it was by no means crappy, either. There were things I liked about it and things I disliked about it. The music was far inferior to Darius Twins', but in many ways the gameplay/stage design was better, and I liked that sweet giant-ass laser you could use. I also think that Darius Twin had more personality: I liked the bosses and the ships in that game, even though the weapons you got were fairly dull compared to other games in the series.

If we're talking about the whole series as well, then for me, G. Darius = #1. LOVE that game.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:55 pm

I'll definitely post my FAQ on here when I am finished with it, for everybody to read. It's coming along pretty nicely.

Congrats on beating the game, tehkao. Try beating all 3 paths, you get a different end boss on all 3 paths. I think the end boss of path 2 is actually harder than the end boss on path 3. You also get 3 different endings depending on which path you beat the game on.

Also, on the poll options, I wasn't really trying to design the options to be extremely strict...basically, it's either yes, no, or undecided...if you're on the fence, I'd say go with the third one.

As far as personality, I'd say Force's personality was more dark, creepy, and atmospheric. I really like the creepy music, especially in Zone L. I'd say the music in Force is equally as good, despite not being quite as upbeat as Twin's, although overall I'd say both games have excellent soundtracks.

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:38 pm

Dark Saibot wrote:As you can tell I'm not a huge fan of G-Darius. Of all the games that successfully made the transition to 3D, G certainly isn't one of them. I don't like boss battles that last half an hour just because Taito wanted to show what they could do with the Playstation, and the music gives me a headache. About the only notable thing I can say about G is that they expanded the capture orb concept from Gaiden, otherwise I think the whole game is really a letdown.

Good lord, you like Darius Twin better than G Darius? Darius Twin isn't horrible, but comparing it to G Darius is a joke. G Darius is simply a masterpiece. Everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but damn.

If the boss battles in G Darius are lasting you a half hour, then you don't know how to play properly. Also, G Darius was an arcade game first, so I doubt they were trying to make any sort of tech show on the PS1 home hardware, specifically. As far as the music, there's no accounting for (your) taste

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:36 pm

Good lord, you like Darius Twin better than G Darius? Darius Twin isn't horrible, but comparing it to G Darius is a joke. G Darius is simply a masterpiece. Everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but damn.

If the boss battles in G Darius are lasting you a half hour, then you don't know how to play properly. Also, G Darius was an arcade game first, so I doubt they were trying to make any sort of tech show on the PS1 home hardware, specifically. As far as the music, there's no accounting for (your) taste

G-Darius is a masterpiece? That, my friend, is a joke. You think just because I don't like the fact that some of the boss battles last for about half an hour means I suck at the game...no, sorry. I have beaten the game, as I have beaten most of the Darius games. I don't suck at the game just because Taito designed the boss battles to last half an hour.

Also, the music in G sounds like a toddler banging on a synth keyboard. It has no rhythm, no beat, no pace. It basically just sucks, especially compared to Twin's excellent music. The music in the previous Darius games was solid, but the music in G is headache inducing. I'm sorry but how can anybody enjoy awful drab like the intermission music...yuck.

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:17 pm

Dark Saibot wrote:G-Darius is a masterpiece? That, my friend, is a joke. You think just because I don't like the fact that some of the boss battles last for about half an hour means I suck at the game...no, sorry.

No, I don't think it means you suck at the game, just that you're not playing it properly. That is, unless your 'about half an hour' is just hyperbole. If you literally mean that some of the boss battles lasted a half hour for you, then you are not properly implementing the weapons at your disposal.

Dark Saibot wrote:I have beaten the game, as I have beaten most of the Darius games. I don't suck at the game just because Taito designed the boss battles to last half an hour.

Peoples' definitions of 'beaten' on here can vary pretty widely, so that alone is not impressive. Besides, it's quite possible to beat G Darius and still not be playing it properly, getting stuck with excessively long boss battles. Taito did not design the boss battles to last a half hour...they merely made them capable of lasting a half hour, just like any other shmup with un-timered boss battles. Any of them can be killed in a few minutes.

Dark Saibot wrote:Also, the music in G sounds like a toddler banging on a synth keyboard. It has no rhythm, no beat, no pace. It basically just sucks, especially compared to Twin's excellent music. The music in the previous Darius games was solid, but the music in G is headache inducing. I'm sorry but how can anybody enjoy awful drab like the intermission music...yuck.

Whatever. It's useless to argue about something as subjective as music. There are plenty of people on here that like the G Darius soundtrack, and plenty that don't. I'm of the former.

The Bullet Dodger · Post by **The Bullet Dodger** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:13 am

I agree with Accutron here.

The boss battles in G. seem to be only shooting and dodging to the naked eye. But there is a strategy to battling the huge bosses, and the capture balls do play a big role in them; and yes, the bosses do give you some opportunities to use your capture balls.

Dark Saibot, I can see your point when you say that the boss battles last a 1/2 hour or so, if you do nothing but shoot and dodge bullets. I recommend you give G. Darius another try, because it truly is one of the BETTER Darius titles out there. And remember to use your capture balls wisely.

Oh, and the music is above average, IMO. I don't think Taito wanted a rhythm feel to the music in this one, much like the previous Darius games. I believe they were trying to give the music a more mysterious and more "spacey" feeling to it. And I think they accomplished that quite well. Yes, the music and the gameplay go together nicely I think; just like peanut butter & jelly. Huge props to Taito!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:23 am

If you literally mean that some of the boss battles lasted a half hour for you, then you are not properly implementing the weapons at your disposal.

Don't take every last thing that somebody ever says literally, you won't get far in life that way. In reality, the boss battles might not last 30:00.00 minutes, but they do go longer than can keep you interested. That battle against the King Fossil remake lasts just a little too long, even WITH using the capture orbs...yes, I do know how to use the capture orbs against the bosses, despite the fact you keep trying to make it sound like I am an incompetent idiot that doesn't know how to play the game.

Peoples' definitions of 'beaten' on here can vary pretty widely, so that alone is not impressive.

I'm not here to try and impress you, or anybody else. Get that idea out of your head.

I don't think Taito wanted a rhythm feel to the music in this one, much like the previous Darius games.

I agree with you on that, at least. As far as arguing about the music being subjective, right, however, would you even call that stuff in G-Darius "music" ? Just a bunch of synth notes banged out in no particular fashion with no particular song structure does not constitute music if you ask me. The previous Darius games did not only contain great music, the music ALONE made the games great. In all honesty, I can't say the same about G-Darius. To sum it up I think the whole game was half an effort to turn a completely 2D series into 3D, which failed on many levels.

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:47 am

Dark Saibot wrote:Don't take every last thing that somebody ever says literally, you won't get far in life that way. In reality, the boss battles might not last 30:00.00 minutes, but they do go longer than can keep you interested.

Well then...

Dark Saibot wrote:I don't like boss battles that last half an hour just because Taito wanted to show what they could do with the Playstation

Dark Saibot wrote:You think just because I don't like the fact that some of the boss battles last for about half an hour means I suck at the game...no, sorry.

Dark Saibot wrote:I don't suck at the game just because Taito designed the boss battles to last half an hour.

Exactly how many times must you say something before I should think you're serious? Four? Five? I was clearly not meaning exactly 30 minutes to the second. No boss battles in G Darius even approach that duration if you know what the hell you're doing. The duration of the boss battles is a common complaint that people have about G Darius, and the complaints almost always come from someone who isn't playing it right. You've iterated three times that G Darius has half hour long boss battles. What exactly about that suggests that you know how to play?

Dark Saibot wrote:That battle against the King Fossil remake lasts just a little too long, even WITH using the capture orbs...yes, I do know how to use the capture orbs against the bosses, despite the fact you keep trying to make it sound like I am an incompetent idiot that doesn't know how to play the game.

I never said you were an incompetent idiot. You however, have said three times that you hate half hour boss battles. If your statements, in your mind, define you as incompetent, that's not my problem.

Dark Saibot wrote:I'm not here to try and impress you, or anybody else.

Then why are you bragging about completions when it has absolutely no relevance to the discussion?

The Bullet Dodger · Post by **The Bullet Dodger** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:37 am

Dark Saibot:

You think the music ALONE makes the Darius series great?

Are you serious???

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:18 am

Well gee Accutron, you keep spitefully saying that I don't know how to play the game, over and over and OVER again, therefore you are the one that is trying to turn this into some little nerd fight or something, then when I say in my defense that I have beat the game a few times you say I'm "bragging"...okay, I'm not falling for your little nerd argument traps. I see people like you all over the internet...get a life, don't try and drag me into some stupid little nerd argument I don't want to get into. I've got more important things to do with my time. I've stated many reasons why I don't like G-Darius, and that's just my opinion. If you don't like it, then that's fine, but don't try and drag me into some little nerd argument just because you don't like my opinion about the game.

I think the music in the previous Darius games was the MOST notable point about them, not the only one. I think they also had solid gameplay, innovative features and level design, and cool bosses, among everything else.

Then why are you bragging about completions when it has absolutely no relevance to the discussion?

Why do you keep putting me down and saying I don't know how to play the game and trying to provoke me into a nerd fight, when you have something better to do in real life. Maybe you don't...

shmups.system11.org

Darius Force/Super Nova...

Darius Force/Super Nova - An underrated masterpiece?

Darius Force/Super Nova...