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 Post subject: RQ: Progear 'second boss exploit' video confusing!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:36 am 


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http://youtube.com/watch?v=qPua1riUkPA

I've watched this Progear vid starting with the 2nd boss, 2nd form, and seen how the player moves the ship up behind the bosses neck to make short work of him. It's a neat trick, and I've tried everything to get this to work successfully but no matter what, its not consistent.
The problem is the boss always chooses to fire out circular bullet patterns which fill the screen - and because you're so close to the bastard its blind luck if you get through it. How does this guy in the vid finish him off so quickly, he doesn't get the chance to even think about that pattern?! For me it takes at least an extra ten seconds before the desperation attack (which is easily avoidable) which sometimes makes or breaks things.
Anyone got any tips, tell me what I'm not seeing or doing here, or if there is a sweet spot every-time (I challenge you guys to try it yourselves and get back to me!)
Thanks for the help :shock:
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:37 am 


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autofire
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:59 pm 


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I didn't think of that - not sure though, because he still alternates between shot types.
Although if it is autofire that would be dissapointing - I'd definitely consider that cheating and just finish him off traditionally instead.
Thanks for the input!
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:41 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
I didn't think of that - not sure though, because he still alternates between shot types.
Although if it is autofire that would be dissapointing - I'd definitely consider that cheating and just finish him off traditionally instead.
Thanks for the input!


It is definitely because of auto-fire, but almost all cave games are expected to be played with the (usually C button) full-auto. You can activate it by going through the F2 menu in most cases.

Also, it isn't considered cheating, IIRC the DOJ + Galuda ports have full auto buttons as standard and I doubt there is a score in the Guwange top 20 here that wasn't made without full auto enabled.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:13 am 


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Wow - that's interesting! Does autofire really help then? Won't it affect the alternation of fire and ship speed?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:49 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
Wow - that's interesting! Does autofire really help then? Won't it affect the alternation of fire and ship speed?


I've never really put a lot of time into progear, so I have no idea what the full benefits are (ie. Guwange uses its autofire to quick deploy its shiki), but point blanking bosses and other large enemies with it is very useful for quick kills.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:10 am 


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I've been trying to do this trick with that boss and run into the same problems you did. No one knows how this is supposed to be done?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:24 pm 


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autofire
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:09 pm 


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Nope, its not autofire.

As I suspected, with this on there's no option to alternate fire - in fact, it dumbly switches every second between heavy and light bursts, making your machine into something of a dud if you're looking to deliver a heavy payload. If anything, this weakens you against the boss.

I've tried every which way to get this point blanking strategy to work, and I'll survive 1 in 10 times through luck.
The boss nearly always spews a circular bullet pattern that can't be dodged close up (unless through sheer luck), which he doesn't have the time to perform in the video before he goes down in flames.

This is going to have to get relegated to the x-files bin of shmup mystery, unless someone can rise to the challenge and tell all how its done.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:27 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
Nope, its not autofire.

As I suspected, with this on there's no option to alternate fire - in fact, it dumbly switches every second between heavy and light bursts, making your machine into something of a dud if you're looking to deliver a heavy payload. If anything, this weakens you against the boss.


The player in this video is using the full-auto C button when point-blanking.
You can switch between firing modes easily when using autofire.
Autofire greatly improves performance on bosses.

Asking people how to manipulate the bosses final attack properly is probably a better line of questioning than telling people auto doesn't work on progear.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:34 pm 



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Skykid wrote:
Nope, its not autofire.
The boss nearly always spews a circular bullet pattern that can't be dodged close up (unless through sheer luck), which he doesn't have the time to perform in the video before he goes down in flames.


Watch the boss's actions right before he sends out the circular pattern. It's easy to tell when he's about to do that pattern after you've seen it a few times. When you see it's about to happen, just move away a bit to give more reaction time.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:55 pm 


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Fair enough! You guys know best, I'll go back to the drawing board.
I'm running progear on FBA, so I'm not sure how to configure the autofire properly as you mentioned.

But I'll do my best!

Thanks again!
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:50 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
Fair enough! You guys know best, I'll go back to the drawing board.
I'm running progear on FBA, so I'm not sure how to configure the autofire properly as you mentioned.

But I'll do my best!

Thanks again!


You'll get this screen in the US version from holding F2 in mame during the game.

Image

You need to go through a couple of menus and if you are playing the Japanese version you'll need to memorize what options to tick as it's not in English.

If you can, I'd switch to wolfmame (you can find it at marp), I have no idea how you get to this menu in other emulators.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:19 am 


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Man I feel like a dummy.

Ok, so I was using FBA's autofire option - I didn't realise that in fact, Rapid fire on C was a standard option on so many Cave games.

Apologies to all for my Noobness, which seems incredible as I'm not a noob to shmups at all.

Thanks freddiebamboo for that, you really spelled it out for me, and I got it working straight up.

Could I ask another question regarding this? Is the benefit of rapid fire C the speed, or increased power (or both?) I can't tell if the shot is stronger or not.
As for the boss, after a couple of goes I can see I'm much nearer to perfecting this exploit! I reckon once I get home from Christmas holidays to play on a stick (rather than on this sodding laptop) I'll have it cracked!

Thanks again to all (and apologies to shoe-sama!)
:shock:
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:07 am 


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power increase + easier to transition between gunner and pilot + less ow
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:56 pm 


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Got it - Basically you have to be ready to point blank full auto the moment the first form explodes. If you're a second late with the full auto, the computer can choose to fire that seemingly unavoidable spread attack - but if you're quick enough it never seems to think about it.

Well, resolved then! Still going to take some practice to perfect but its a neat trick.

Onto that bastard on level 3 - anyone got any tips for his desperation attack (think that's a whole new thread lol!)

Thanks all!
:wink:
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:38 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
Got it - Basically you have to be ready to point blank full auto the moment the first form explodes. If you're a second late with the full auto, the computer can choose to fire that seemingly unavoidable spread attack - but if you're quick enough it never seems to think about it.

Well, resolved then! Still going to take some practice to perfect but its a neat trick.

Onto that bastard on level 3 - anyone got any tips for his desperation attack (think that's a whole new thread lol!)

Thanks all!
:wink:

I have trouble with that attack too, but the general method is to try to stay right in the middle of the "curves" of bullets and transition to either side of them. I can survive most of it but I usually get caught near the end.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:27 pm 


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I'm the same - I always buy it towards the end, they just start to confuse you. Best to bomb out of it I reckon (safer than losing a life.)

UPDATE ON THE BOSS EXPLOIT:

It can't be done, I've changed my mind. I was lucky before, but the attacks seem just as random even with rapid C. Rapid C kills him quicker, but that doesn't stop him from firing off that annoying pattern.

I really wish someone would actually try to do it and post here with either and agreement or a solution. Would make me feel much better about life.

:P
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:54 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
I'm the same - I always buy it towards the end, they just start to confuse you. Best to bomb out of it I reckon (safer than losing a life.)

UPDATE ON THE BOSS EXPLOIT:

It can't be done, I've changed my mind. I was lucky before, but the attacks seem just as random even with rapid C. Rapid C kills him quicker, but that doesn't stop him from firing off that annoying pattern.

I really wish someone would actually try to do it and post here with either and agreement or a solution. Would make me feel much better about life.

:P

Oh, I've done it a couple times successfully. The key that helped me was when someone above said that you need to rush in at the very first moment that his first form explodes, with autofire on full blast. I find that if you do that, he will go right to his forward-firing attacks instead of the spread attack. He will do 2 forward-firing attacks before his desperation attack, so be ready to back off after the 2nd forward attack.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:09 am 


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Quote:
someone above said that you need to rush in at the very first moment that his first form explodes, with autofire on full blast.


Yeah that was me, lol! :wink:

Problem is, I've also got it to work a few times - on and off. I'm looking for it to work every time or its a useless exploit to me.

Bet you can't get it to work four times in a row. Go on, dare ya :shock:
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:37 am 


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Skykid wrote:
Quote:
someone above said that you need to rush in at the very first moment that his first form explodes, with autofire on full blast.


Yeah that was me, lol! :wink:

Problem is, I've also got it to work a few times - on and off. I'm looking for it to work every time or its a useless exploit to me.

Bet you can't get it to work four times in a row. Go on, dare ya :shock:

You're right, I practiced a bunch of times and a few times I rushed up there as fast as possible, I was literally near the right side of the screen when the first form exploded and just moved right over immediately, but it still did the spread attack.

I'm betting this isn't actually a consistent trick, but it seems to work at least 50% of the time, if not more. I might be wrong though.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:48 am 



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Have you guys looked into the possibility that it's position controlled? In other words, depending on where you are on the screen, it might choose a different pattern to fire? Just a thought anyway, stuff like this is rarely totally random.

You might try being behind/above/below the main gun on the thing, or look at the superplay and see exactly what he does. I would doubt someone would risk point blanking the second boss for little reason (since there's no time bonus) if he couldn't consistently reproduce it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:55 pm 



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Like I said earlier, you can tell when he is about to fire out that pattern. Move away to give yourself more time to dodge.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:49 pm 


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Hey Nj, I'd like to say that's true, but it still seems random to me - he'll fire it whenever or wherever he is.
Could you tell me what he does exactly that shows he's about to let rip with those big guns?

:?:
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:13 am 



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Pay close attention to the neck. When he brings out extra guns along the neck, you can safely stay in the point blank range. If he withdraws the guns, immediately move away because the circular attack is coming.

Here is a screenshot right before the circular attack:

Image

Here is a screenshot on all his "safe" attacks:

Image

When he first transforms into the second form, the guns will be withdrawn. You can point blank him during this time, but watch to make sure the guns do appear. If they do not appear within a certain time frame (~2 seconds), move away. Play it a few times, you'll eventually get a feel for how long to wait before moving away.


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 Post subject: GAME OVER!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:20 pm 


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:D

nj you are the man!

I was being completely blind, but you've absolutely solved this for me! It's no guarantee that he wont fire the pattern, but it is guaranteed there's enough time to dodge if he does. I've got it down now! Thanks so much for the tip - it's put my mind at rest.

I officially declare this thread OVER!
:wink:
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