Rob's 91-95 arcade countdown: hidden gem search.

boagman · Post by **boagman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:16 am

crithit5000 wrote:
filthy little dominatrix called Viewpoint
DISTURBING

Don't I know it. Quite the accurate picture, though.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:20 am

Jesus, I spent like ten minutes going through and editing the post for the lols...but then I realized I was only halfway through. So, I'll be serious:

If you can't handle a bit of a different perspective, then perhaps you're not ready to graduate to the internets.

Other random things to deal with:

1.) The game's graphics are dated. Speaking from a purely artistic standpoint, it does well against most any early 3D game, but nobody can look at viewpoint and say "wow those flat shaded polygons are not dated because they exercised the foresight to future-proof them by PRE RENDERING THEM MUAHAHA OUR POLYGONS SHALL BE SULLIED BY NO Z-FIGHTING A'TALL"

2.) tl;dr

3.) I don't know shit about the game, but I do have the FM-Towns version. I played it on a $2 MSX2 joypad that resembled an oversized smashed jellybean. It came with a smashed up Panasonic FS-A1 computer. It had precisely two buttons and a little cross pad.

4.) I wouldn't accuse the game of being pretentious. Silly humans, visuals are too good for your feeble eyes. LET'S SEE YOU BEAT A SHMUP WITH YOUR BARE EARS: NO GRAPHICS ALLOWED. It should be clear why such a different type of viewpoint would be at odds with the competitive nature of players on this Forum in general.

5.) I will admit that there are many people who know this game better than me, and I don't think I've ever been the best at any game, besides the ones I created in my own head, and perhaps I was the best at Crimson Land's survival mode, for a few minutes. Having played the game for a few minutes, I can say that I'm better at it than at least 90% of the Earth's population, with the exception of the original development team, boagman, some guys in Japan (they moved onto Strikers '45 Plus - OH THE SHAME), and some dead refugees who couldn't dodge bullets because they trained with Space Invaders instead of a 3D spatial awareness simulator, such as GLQuake or Tomb Raider.

[Laundry list of things I've eaten and their effects on my digestion]

Also, since we're free to be subjective all up in here, I'm going to say that to me, Super Contra is a better shmup than Viewpoint. It adds gravity and better weapons.

p.s. my initial reaction was to want to play Ghost Pilots, although thankfully I didn't

boagman · Post by **boagman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:24 am

crithit5000 wrote:
and if I won the lottery, I'd honestly see if I could legitimately put back the original team for a sequel...
If that doesn't pan out, perhaps you could buy Cave and force them to put their spin on whatever the hell subgenre of gaming this is.

Crap, sorry for the double post.

The subgenre would probably be isometrics, and there is *no way on God's green earth* that I would entrust Cave to do anything but mess it up. I mean, Jiminy. You don't install Chauncey The Monkey-Boy as the guy in charge of readying the space shuttle for its next mission, do you? At least, not unless you *want* it to turn out all wrong, disasterous, and covered in the stench of death.

Isometric games are just so few and far between, it's almost like they're in a subgenre as small as games like Cabal, Blood Bros., Nam-1975, and the few others that would qualify. I can probably count the number of isometric shooters that I'm familiar with on one hand...and I might not need all the fingers.

::sigh:: Now I'm getting all depressed.

bsidwell · Post by **bsidwell** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:24 am

boagman wrote:Nam-1975 and Magician Lord were *great* stinking games to hold me over until I could find it.

Magician Lord? Please tell me you're joking. I'd rather be kicked in the groin by a Sambo champ wearing steeltoes than play that game. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out the original cab had a device to do exactly that.

yojo! · Post by **yojo!** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:27 am

After seeing Viewpoint in this thread It would not suprise me to see Slapfight ("because the ship is too big" BS) or Truxton ("because the game is too hard" BS) pop up too.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:32 am

bsidwell wrote:
boagman wrote:Nam-1975 and Magician Lord were *great* stinking games to hold me over until I could find it.
Magician Lord? Please tell me you're joking. I'd rather be kicked in the groin by a Sambo champ wearing steeltoes than play that game. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out the original cab had a device to do exactly that.

Also: Nam-1975. Clearly, this man has withstood gaming hell for years and learned to enjoy it, and apparently shunning decent games as a result.

I'm afraid of what he'll think of nearly every entry in PHFSTGT.

boagman · Post by **boagman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:34 am

bsidwell wrote:
boagman wrote:Nam-1975 and Magician Lord were *great* stinking games to hold me over until I could find it.
Magician Lord? Please tell me you're joking. I'd rather be kicked in the groin by a Sambo champ wearing steeltoes than play that game. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out the original cab had a device to do exactly that.

I wish I could tell you that; I can't. I spent many, many hours guiding Elta through, and while I was never *quite* able to 1CC it, I came darned close, and knew it was completely attainable.

It's another in that "pleasure-spiked-with-copious-amounts-of-pain" category for me, and I love besting this stuff. Give me your Viewpoints, your Magician Lords, your NAM-1975s, your Ghosts 'n' Goblins series...it's my mission to tame them, and tame them I have.

I don't know that I've ever met anyone else who's beaten NAM-1975 without dying. That's just the kind of idiot I am.

Oh, and to those who *own* NAM-1975 but have never beaten it? Hang your heads in shame until you do. It's totally worth it.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:36 am

PHF? Do I want to know? If not, kindly leave me ignorant.

boagman · Post by **boagman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:40 am

Twiddle wrote:Also: Nam-1975. Clearly, this man has withstood gaming hell for years and learned to enjoy it, and apparently shunning decent games as a result.

I'm afraid of what he'll think of nearly every entry in PHFSTGT.

Guilty as stinking charged, though I must fire off a *major* league "OBJECTION!" when referring to NAM-1975 as "gaming hell." It's bliss, my friend, bliss. Oh, and *that's* a game that I'd admit to having some seriously dated graphics. But the gameplay? Marvel-stinking-ous.

These types of games aren't *all* I play, but I can pretty safely say that they're the ones that have provided me with the greatest triumphs, moments, and memories. I darned well *loved* killing the ever-living crap out of Muckly at the end of NAM-1975. It's a game that *makes* you learn to beat it...or you get *nothing*. There was something about that that I just couldn't let go. Imagine that.

This might sound stupid, but what's "PHFSTGT"?

BBH · Post by **BBH** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:40 am

bsidwell wrote:Magician Lord? Please tell me you're joking. I'd rather be kicked in the groin by a Sambo champ wearing steeltoes than play that game. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out the original cab had a device to do exactly that.

Magician Lord is not a bad game.

Twiddle wrote:Also: Nam-1975. Clearly, this man has withstood gaming hell for years and learned to enjoy it, and apparently shunning decent games as a result.

Neither is NAM-1975.

boagman wrote:I don't know that I've ever met anyone else who's beaten NAM-1975 without dying. That's just the kind of idiot I am.

hey yo

thewestexit · Post by **thewestexit** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:45 am

bsidwell wrote:
boagman wrote:Nam-1975 and Magician Lord were *great* stinking games to hold me over until I could find it.
Magician Lord? Please tell me you're joking. I'd rather be kicked in the groin by a Sambo champ wearing steeltoes than play that game. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out the original cab had a device to do exactly that.

Are you kidding? Magician Lord is a great platform action game. The best 1st gen Neo Geo release by far IMO.

boagman · Post by **boagman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:47 am

BBH wrote:
boagman wrote:I don't know that I've ever met anyone else who's beaten NAM-1975 without dying. That's just the kind of idiot I am.
hey yo

Really? Color me very impressed! I know what a feat that was, as it took so long for me to get that good. That game was just such a wicked game at the arcade, teasing you with the continue-kill, and having it do the same thing at home was inspired..."No easy run-throughs! You want the goods? You *make me give it up*! Otherwise, DIE!"

Pain/anguish is a highly motivating factor.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:49 am

yojo! wrote:After seeing Viewpoint in this thread It would not suprise me to see Slapfight ("because the ship is too big" BS) or Truxton ("because the game is too hard" BS) pop up too.

pre-91

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:56 am

boagman wrote:Guilty as stinking charged, though I must fire off a *major* league "OBJECTION!" when referring to NAM-1975 as "gaming hell." It's bliss, my friend, bliss. Oh, and *that's* a game that I'd admit to having some seriously dated graphics. But the gameplay? Marvel-stinking-ous.

It's been getting less enjoyable the last few times I've played it.

Soundly thrashed by better games such as Cabal, GI Joe, Blood Bros, and Devastators, in my view (nevermind those are all konami/fabtek releases).

Yeah, I've got the cardboard box release of NAM-1975 too, though I never have gotten very good at it.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:01 am

I think I saw a brief bit of Magician Lord when my friend had a Neo Geo (he sold it after a very short while). I didn't actually get to play it, but it looked pretty fun =/

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:03 am

Arvandor wrote:but it looked pretty fun =/

Shoulda been Neo Geo's slogan.

BBH · Post by **BBH** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:05 am

boagman wrote:Really? Color me very impressed! I know what a feat that was, as it took so long for me to get that good. That game was just such a wicked game at the arcade, teasing you with the continue-kill, and having it do the same thing at home was inspired..."No easy run-throughs! You want the goods? You *make me give it up*! Otherwise, DIE!"

Well, I never did it when it was in the arcade, I didn't learn how to beat the last boss until it was emulated and it became easier to practice things. I've done it legit since then, though.

The thing that really irritates me about NAM is the "random" bosses you may or may not fight after a level. It makes playing for score absolutely retarded. It's pretty funny because whenever I play it nowadays, if I get the first "random" extra boss (the crane thing) I usually die on it.

Pain/anguish is a highly motivating factor.

After your dominatrix analogy, I think we've learned a little too much about your fetishes...

boagman · Post by **boagman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:06 am

Arvandor wrote:I think I saw a brief bit of Magician Lord when my friend had a Neo Geo (he sold it after a very short while). I didn't actually get to play it, but it looked pretty fun =/

It certainly was; it was just brutally hard. It's one of the few games that I've ever played where the sub-bosses were harder to figure out/beat than the actual level bosses were. Still, altogether satisfying, especially being able to kill a twit who had the audacity to claim that I was imprudent while, in the next breath, claiming deity/immortality, all with a far-too-smug-to-live smirk on his face.

Bah. I'm calling a penalty on myself for going too far OT in this thread.

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:15 am

Ok, let's get back to the countdown.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:19 am

Rob wrote:
Arvandor wrote:but it looked pretty fun =/
Shoulda been Neo Geo's slogan.

Chelnov > Magician Lord, just to name one

ML looks like it wanted to be a bit like Psycho-Nics Oscar, or Xain'd Sleena, or something, but then they pulled in the camera. Being able to shoot overhead is nifty. Note that it's not as useful as being able to shoot diagonally to kill one of those blasted swooping creatures that drop food pellets on you. Ah yes, four-way shooting - another curse of the Neo (Ninja Spirit to Metal Slug, not a positive change there)

I would like my platformers to have more than one way of dealing with an enemy. Oh no, a horde of skeletons! MASHMASHMASH. Oh no, a bizarre purple beast! I shall duck and be saved!

In fact, I think that if you just took the dude running around in Dragon Breed you'd still have a better game than ML is

D · Post by D » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:21 am

Why not first list all of the shmups from that era (without images)
Then we can decide in what order they should be.
Then we can argue and fight with each other who should up or lower which title in their list.
Succes guaranteed!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:27 am

D wrote:Then we can decide in what order they should be.
Then we can argue and fight with each other who should up or lower which title in their list.
Succes guaranteed!

Top 25 results/discussion thread.

#66 Ultra X Weapons (Banpresto, 1995)

Psikyo Jr. during the levels and Compile during the bosses. The graphics are very ugly.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:38 am

#65 Final Star Force (Tecmo, 1992)

SNES-style update, with lots of slowdown and a lot less challenge. Remember some of these backgrounds? That's all it has in common with the original, since they drained it of its simple charms. Generic 16-bit console exclusive style vertical.

KNTain · Post by **KNTain** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:43 am

Psikyo Jr. during the levels and Compile during the bosses. The graphics are very ugly.

holy hell, yes they are. That shot on the right is really something else.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:47 am

#64 Acrobat Mission (UPL, 1991)

An early, less polished version of XII Stag (wiggle side shot for bonus points - useless in practice here). Weak firepower or highly durable enemies. Guide your ship to its doom after you get hit by the bullets from enemies you can barely destroy.

Less enjoyable than SNES version.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:52 am

Robjob you should put the entire thing in the first post.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:00 am

That would make the following discussions between each section pretty difficult to follow. This way flows better, even if it is a bit more tedious for those who just want to see the list (but... the discussion is most of the amusement).

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:08 am

JoshF wrote:Robjob you should put the entire thing in the first post.

..forum would crash everytime fighter17 posted

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:29 am

Arvandor wrote:for those who just want to see the list

Keeping it updated in the first post.

I do like the discussion/harrassment between entries.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:34 am

double post