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 Post subject: GD: Mahou Daisakusen
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:52 pm 


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OK seeing as Icarus and I have been playing this a fair bit recently, here's a GD. For basic strategies I'd suggest watching the current marp hi score or Icarus' input over at the namako forum.

To get the ball rolling, here are some problem areas of the first loop:

The double turrets on stage 2 that need a bomb - wasting bombs on stuff like this is just wrong.

A no-bomb foolproof way to beat bashinet on stage 3 (the marp replay method is good, but sometimes fails). Starting off centre slightly to the right and then quickly left to dodge the circles seems pretty reliable if you're careful not to hit the last of the side bullets. For the blue ray second form (once both circles die?) moving round and over bashi from the left to the right works 60% of the time, but occasionally he won't die quickly enough and the blue ray traps you in the bottom of the screen.

The stage 5 boss in general. I got nothing here.

Stage 6's ninja and boss and final bashinet (shudder)

-------------------------------------

I think it's a fair guess that only the stage 5 boss and final bashi actually require bombing, everything else looks doable IMO with a bit of luck and practice.

Any thoughts on the game will be much appreciated.

EDIT: Also - unlike other raizing games, save states kinda work for mahou as long as you make them just before the end of a level. Very useful for practicing the stage 6 bosses.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Mahou Daisakusen
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:27 am 


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Okay, let me see...

freddiebamboo wrote:
The double turrets on stage 2 that need a bomb - wasting bombs on stuff like this is just wrong.


The best way, believe it or not, is to actually just dump a bomb on them to destroy them. You can do it without a bomb, but it requires either circling the turrets, or tapping through the bullet patterns, and both are very risky. If I find some kind of safe way, I will document it here.

freddiebamboo wrote:
A no-bomb foolproof way to beat bashinet on stage 3 (the marp replay method is good, but sometimes fails). Starting off centre slightly to the right and then quickly left to dodge the circles seems pretty reliable if you're careful not to hit the last of the side bullets. For the blue ray second form (once both circles die?) moving round and over bashi from the left to the right works 60% of the time, but occasionally he won't die quickly enough and the blue ray traps you in the bottom of the screen.


Good technique.
From what I've done in experimental practice, you can quickly kill Bashi by destroying the two side armaments - the buzzsaws - quickly, before Bashi does the blue curving fireball trap. Once the fireball trap starts, you have to try and quickly get into the trap - it loops back on itself, and you have to sit inside the loop to stay alive - and from there, just pummel Bashi.

The reason a single bomb technique works so well is that you destroy Bashi's rear armament with the bomb, triggering the blue raining bullets. This effectively stops Bashi from doing the fireball trap.

You could possibly destroy Bashi quickly by switching to Front and just attacking the main body. You can lure the saws to miss by sitting in a corner before they fire, then just concentrating all fire on the boss.

freddiebamboo wrote:
The stage 5 boss in general. I got nothing here.


It is no-missable and no-bombable, however with the rank up quite high, the boss itself has great resilience to damage. You have to use cutback movement, starting from halfway up the screen to be able to dodge the fast bullets fired by the tank turrets, and it is very risky to even do this.

It might be easier to beat the boss using a more powerful weapon, however, as I normally go at it with Miyamoto's Wide. Homing or Front might work better in this case. It is largely dependent on your selected craft.

Alternatively, if you can conserve enough bombs for the boss, just dump every bomb you have on the boss (making sure you stay lined up with the wizard in the center to do maximum damage to both the wizard and the extra bits and pieces), then start your cutbacks. You should do enough damage to quickly destroy everything.

freddiebamboo wrote:
Stage 6's ninja and boss and final bashinet (shudder)


Tsumujimaru:
If you've played Batrider and fought him there, then you should be familiar with his attack patterns, as they're identical. The difficult factor with this battle is predicting what attacks he will use first. From experience, his attack pattern is:

Code:
(if he starts jumping) flame column attack
(if he raises his left arm) ninja summon
(if he dashes to the left/right side) shuriken dash
(if he dashes anywhere else) mines
 -> then ->
(stop and spin in place) kunai spinning attack
 -> then ->
then
repeat from top


Avoiding each attack is as follows:

- Flame Column:
As soon as he starts jumping, you have to quickly get up the side of the screen (any side will do) and sit over halfway. The flames can't hit you from that position on the screen, and if you have Homing or Wide, you can deal a bit of extra damage.

- Ninja Summon:
Just sit in front of him until he raises his arm, then back off and destroy the ninjas. If you use Wide it makes this considerably easier.

- Shuriken Dash:
As soon as Tsu makes a dash to the side, move quickly along the bottom of the screen. You have to move in a fast cutback pattern starting from slightly up the side of the screen, down past the corner to the middle (stopping for a split second to lure the attack), then cut up past the other corner to a spot a little up the other side of the screen. A sharp U-movement pattern, in effect.
Alternatively, if you understand the timing of the pattern, you can cut from left to right and back again, starting your movements in the split-second when Tsu isn't firing shuriken.

- Mines:
There is no real easy method to avoid this. All I know is that the mines fire an aimed 3-way pattern at you when they explode, and they explode in the order that Tsu dropped them. If you position yourself correcty, you can move in large steps through the gaps in the 3-way. The only other option is to drop a bomb on Tsu just as the mines explode.

- Kunai Spin:
When Tsu stops moving during the randomly selected attack pattern phase, get over to the left corner and watch the spin carefully. By staying on the left side, you can watch for where the gaps are, and move into them. From there, just tap right slowly to stay in the gaps.


Bashinet Final
I'm assuming you're talking about the one that appears after beating Gigaface, right? The one that spews mines and lasers everywhere continuously? Only two ways I can think of (besides bomb-dropping) to handle this one:

1) If you're sufficiently powered up, you can possibly sit right in front of the boss, just slightly off-centre (with the head) and avoid all the lasers. Just pummel the boss from here, the mines do nothing until Bashi gets REALLY close.

2) If you have Wide or Homing, you could sit off to the side and avoid everything that way. Haven't tried it yet, however, so I dunno if it works.

Bashi Final doesn't take that much damage, perhaps two or three bombs and a bit of sustained fire will down him.

freddiebamboo wrote:
I think it's a fair guess that only the stage 5 boss and final bashi actually require bombing, everything else looks doable IMO with a bit of luck and practice.


It probably is doable no-miss (and maybe no bomb), but every technique that might work has some element of risk involved. The game does throw a ton of bombs at you, however, so use them if you feel the need.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:19 am 


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Good stuff there Icarus.

I agree that a no miss first loop clear is very possible given the amount of bombs. Given the handicap of dying in the loop I'd say a 1LC is the way things are done - or maybe a suicide on 2-1? I'm not sure how bad the loop gets...

Regarding Tsumujimaru, cheers for the breakdown - predicting what he's doing is half the battle. For the mines I've found a quick 360 of the screen works as well as anything but can lead to difficulties, I definitely think a bomb is a wise choice here.

Also, I like the switch to F power for bashi on stage 4, makes clearing those damn pods much easier than W :D The only disadvantage seems to be not being able to get W back until after the centaur dudes with the arrows.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:41 am 


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freddiebamboo wrote:
I agree that a no miss first loop clear is very possible given the amount of bombs. Given the handicap of dying in the loop I'd say a 1LC is the way things are done - or maybe a suicide on 2-1? I'm not sure how bad the loop gets...


I think rank is pretty constant in the second loop (ie. very hard) so suiciding isn't the best option in the loop. The best way to deal with anything the second loop throws at you is to know where the extra enemies will appear - they alwys appear in a fixed location. Everything else is identical to the 1st loop, and can be tackled roughly the same (taking into account the increased resilience of the enemies to damage).

freddiebamboo wrote:
Regarding Tsumujimaru, cheers for the breakdown - predicting what he's doing is half the battle. For the mines I've found a quick 360 of the screen works as well as anything but can lead to difficulties, I definitely think a bomb is a wise choice here.


Yup. If you can confidently handle all the other patterns then Tsu will pose no problems. With save state practice, I've managed to no-miss past him, using just one bomb per mine attack (and depending on how much damage you do to him, he won't ever do more than three). If you're lucky, you can get two bombs after the first coliseum boss (two headed dragon) and another two after Gob-Robo.

Circling the screen for the mines attack might work if you circle in an anti-clockwise direction and aim to end somewhere near the top-left corner. Since the spinning kunai attack starts usually from between the 12o'clock position and 3o'clock, it should give you enough time to get back down to the bottom to dodge the attack.

freddiebamboo wrote:
Also, I like the switch to F power for bashi on stage 4, makes clearing those damn pods much easier than W :D The only disadvantage seems to be not being able to get W back until after the centaur dudes with the arrows.


Front is great for dealing with stage4's Bashi as it does so much damage. The only problem is avoiding the missiles. And indeed the only problem after that is making the trip through stage5, but if you grab a Homing at some point you can ease the journey. (Miyamoto's Homing is very powerful, funnily enough. The only problem with it is it has difficulty locking on to somet things.)

You will need one bomb for the end section with the centaurs and turtle tanks that come in the sides, however (if you're aiming to score on this bit).

Also, you asked about stage3's Bashi and no-bombing it. You can. Wolf 0.106 input supplied.
http://www.thestudio-uk.com/external/sc ... mb_icr.rar
I stop playing after dying on the third boss, so it's a short input. (I'm unable to record avis at present as my setup is hooked up to the Saturn.)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:27 am 


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Icarus wrote:
Also, you asked about stage3's Bashi and no-bombing it. You can. Wolf 0.106 input supplied.
http://www.thestudio-uk.com/external/sc ... mb_icr.rar
I stop playing after dying on the third boss, so it's a short input. (I'm unable to record avis at present as my setup is hooked up to the Saturn.)


Very good, I didn't realise the blue laser was as predictable as that.


For the stage 5 boss, the best I can come up with is this: Don't shoot, stay in between the dragon heads and repeatedly bomb the little dude from quite close range. The danger of the boss is when the tanks open up and start shooting - it seems slightly random what triggers this (could be damage to the dragon heads or damage to the actual tanks).

I'd say there is a 50% chance you can use about 4 bombs and he'll just die without even firing a bullet. When the tanks open fire he seems to gain a bit more health and you have to time your bombs very carefully to avoid getting hit while you position the next bomb.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:35 am 


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freddiebamboo wrote:
Very good, I didn't realise the blue laser was as predictable as that.


The fireball trap moves randomly however, so there's a chance it can cover the bottom of the screen, stopping you from getting past. It does work about 80% of the time however. The other 20% is best handled with a bomb. ^_-

freddiebamboo wrote:
For the stage 5 boss, the best I can come up with is this: Don't shoot, stay in between the dragon heads and repeatedly bomb the little dude from quite close range. The danger of the boss is when the tanks open up and start shooting - it seems slightly random what triggers this (could be damage to the dragon heads or damage to the actual tanks).

I'd say there is a 50% chance you can use about 4 bombs and he'll just die without even firing a bullet. When the tanks open fire he seems to gain a bit more health and you have to time your bombs very carefully to avoid getting hit while you position the next bomb.


Yup, that's pretty much what I do (except I keep firing when while bombing). You can dodge every bullet the tanks fire at you as there is a big enough gap inbetween the patterns to dodge, but you have to move in very fast wide U cutbacks similar to Tsumujimaru's shuriken dash attack, and watch carefully for the big purple fireball spread. In most cases however, if you can get to the st5 boss with at least four bombs, you have a very good chance of getting past without dying.

I haven't tried using Homing for the boss yet. I'm thinking that the extra power from Homing would deal with the tanks a lot better than Wide. I'll take a look into it and see what happens.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:35 pm 


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I've begun to write on an Excel sheet what items each ennemy gives.
I'm going to translate it (french-->english) and then put a link.
We could probably complete it as a communautary work.

You seem to know the game much more than me so I guess I don't have much to say...
Concerning boss 2, the worst thing imho is the number of patterns. They can be easily dodged with some practice, but a wrong timing - all patterns shot at the same time - can make them fatal.
I'd advise you to avoid getting close to the bosses, because they shot their patterns anyway :/ (unlike most of the tanks)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:48 am 


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Keade wrote:
I've begun to write on an Excel sheet what items each ennemy gives.
I'm going to translate it (french-->english) and then put a link.
We could probably complete it as a communautary work.

You seem to know the game much more than me so I guess I don't have much to say...
Concerning boss 2, the worst thing imho is the number of patterns. They can be easily dodged with some practice, but a wrong timing - all patterns shot at the same time - can make them fatal.
I'd advise you to avoid getting close to the bosses, because they shot their patterns anyway :/ (unlike most of the tanks)


Keade - I might be wrong, but you could be talking about mahou's sequel dimahoo rather than mahou daisakusen. I think dimahoo has an alternative name that is very similar.

-------------------

Worst case scenario bomb strat:

1 @ the double guns on stage 2 (I really think this can be avoided)
1 @ bashi stage 3
1 @ stage 3 boss if it gets too close on its rapid fire attack
2 @ stage 4 bashi if you have severe problems with the firing pod attack
1 @ stage 5 with the centaurs or the triple turrets
2 @ the flying castles before the boss
4 @ the stage 5 boss
1 @ the fire dragon on stage 6 if its first form doesn't die quick enough
3 @ the ninja
? @ the boss
3 @ final bashi

I don't know the final boss well enough, but I'd say 2 or 3? I'll make a bomb count later in the week, but I'd bet it would be somewhere near 18 on a no miss with an average yield from stage 6. Assuming the stage 6 boss is 2 bombs, that puts a run at 21 bombs for a very cautious approach.

9 of those bombs are on stage 6 however, so with a death on the stage 5 boss you can easily come in to stage 6 with 2 bombs, get powered up from the H power and have 2 bombs in stock plus a maximum of 4 from the crowd. Do you think dying on the stage 5 boss is a good rank control decision? I'd love to see a superplay of this game...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:54 am 


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freddiebamboo wrote:
Keade - I might be wrong, but you could be talking about mahou's sequel dimahoo rather than mahou daisakusen. I think dimahoo has an alternative name that is very similar.

"Great Mahou Daisakusen," IIRC...and Kingdom Grand Prix is "Shippu Mahou Daisakusen."
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:17 am 


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freddiebamboo wrote:
Worst case scenario bomb strat:

1 @ the double guns on stage 2 (I really think this can be avoided)
1 @ bashi stage 3
1 @ stage 3 boss if it gets too close on its rapid fire attack
2 @ stage 4 bashi if you have severe problems with the firing pod attack
1 @ stage 5 with the centaurs
2 @ the flying castles before the boss
4 @ the stage 5 boss
1 @ the fire dragon on stage 6 if its first form doesn't die quick enough
3 @ the ninja
? @ the boss
3 @ final bashi


Had a go tonight, and managed a relatively low bomb run before making a mistake midway through stage 5. Bomb distribution was:

- st2: double turrets
- st4: Bashinet (just for safety on the mine spray)

http://www.thestudio-uk.com/external/sc ... t5_icr.rar
(Input ends after first death.)

I would have been likely to need some for:
- st5: triple big cannons (just one, to get them out of the way quickly)
- st5: perhaps 2 or 3 for the end section before boss (castles)
- st5: at least 5 for the wizard
- st6: Tsumujimaru mines attack (up to 3)
- st6: Bashinet disc arms (just 1)
- st6: Gigaface (safety only, boss can be downed without if done correctly)
- st6-end: Bashinet Final (maybe two for safety, unless going for the outwide technique (which does work 50% of time)

You can cut one bomb out at the centaurs if you have a full Wide and decent Shot power, and again with the fire dragon in st6 if you use Homing fully powered (watch my hi-score run for an idea of the technique - a tip is to watch when it jumps, and quickly dive under it to the other side if you think it'll land too close to the edge of the screen; it'll start jumping once the two side pods are destroyed).

You can definitely conserve a ton of bombs for the end part of the game if done correctly.

freddiebamboo wrote:
I don't know the final boss well enough, but I'd say 2 or 3? I'll make a bomb count later in the week, but I'd bet it would be somewhere near 18 on a no miss with an average yield from stage 6. Assuming the stage 6 boss is 2 bombs, that puts a run at 21 bombs for a very cautious approach.


Bomb counts:
- st1: 2 (start and end of floating castle background)
- st2: 4 (all at midpoint of floating carrier)
- st3: 2 (both skeletal demons, stage midpoint)
- st4: 2 (both flying dragon bombers, stage midpoint)
- st5: 2 (tank conveyors, one each)
- st6: up to 8 (two after each boss kill, randomly given out unfortunately)

freddiebamboo wrote:
9 of those bombs are on stage 6 however, so with a death on the stage 5 boss you can easily come in to stage 6 with 2 bombs, get powered up from the H power and have 2 bombs in stock plus a maximum of 4 from the crowd. Do you think dying on the stage 5 boss is a good rank control decision? I'd love to see a superplay of this game...


Not particularly, but if you're not feeling too confident and desire a suicide to negate rank, dump all the bombs you have up to that point on it, then try and dodge and weave. If you get killed, dump all your bombs again, and you should get past it without further difficulties.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:26 am 


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Ah, I forgot about bashi's disc arms :oops:

Good to know the stage 6 boss can be done without bombing, I'm really itching to get this first loop done but I keep trying to save bombs and end up getting killed - which pretty much ends a credit in this unless you're on the stage 5 boss. Making a bomb distribution was to pretty much to focus me to stop trying to stockpile them for stage 6.

Does bydobasher still post? It'd be great to hear what he has to say about the game - especially the loop.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:36 am 


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freddiebamboo wrote:
Good to know the stage 6 boss can be done without bombing, I'm really itching to get this first loop done but I keep trying to save bombs and end up getting killed - which pretty much ends a credit in this unless you're on the stage 5 boss. Making a bomb distribution was to pretty much to focus me to stop trying to stockpile them for stage 6.


I think you can do it. Use those bombs, this isn't Cave. ^_-

freddiebamboo wrote:
Does bydobasher still post? It'd be great to hear what he has to say about the game - especially the loop.


Haven't seen him around for ages. If push comes to shove I'll take over the score thread and keep it maintained. I doubt we'll get a lot of players on Mahou though, since it's one of those games that goes largely overlooked by many.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:46 am 


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Icarus wrote:
I doubt we'll get a lot of players on Mahou though, since it's one of those games that goes largely overlooked by many.


I'm sure if we keep posting random crap about this game others are bound to play it sooner or later :wink:
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:36 am 


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...
You were right, freddiebamboo, I didn't read the whole posts and didn't pay attention to the title.

Don't mind me, sorry :oops:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:35 am 


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Looks like my second loop rank guess was off. It does indeed increase the longer you survive, and not remaining constant as I once thought. Even the bats at the start of stage2-3 take an extreme amount of damage before dying.

Also, given the amount of damage enemies take in the loop, I've begun to think that sticking with Wide is a bad idea, and have started to switch to Homing and Front in a bid to do a little more damage, with a bit of success. In fact, switching between all three weapons in the loop at specific times is a must.

So far, my weapon changes are:

Code:
st2-1:
 - Take Homing to start, keep Homing until second one drops at Busturtle. Take to level up to lv2.
 - Switch to Front after Busturtle, keep until end of stage. Use Front drops to increase to max power.
 - Switch to Wide before boss.

st2-2:
 - Keep Wide until first goblin airship appears (the big red ones, there are two in stage), then switch to Homing. Keep Homing for whole stage, as it does a great deal of damage more than Wide.

st2-3:
 - Take either Front or Homing for the first half of stage, then switch to Wide before Bashinet.
 - Keep Wide until before walking blob boss, then either keep Wide, or switch to Homing for rapid fire coverage (a necessity given the speed the boss fires all its attacks).

st2-4:
  - Erm... no comment. -_-;;


As for bomb distributions:

Code:
st2-1:
 - 1x: Bashinet after damaging one of the grenade cannons.
 - 1x: before end, to destroy both large double-turreted tanks.

st2-2:
 - 1x:  the second flying castle.
 - 1x:  the first large turret (no safe spot in the loop).
 - 1x:  the pop-up turret field before the double turrets.
 - 1x:  the pair of double turrets.
 - a few: bridge section.

st2-3:
 - 1x: pair of flying skeletal demons (they fire threeway with increased rank)


Second loop needs a ton of work. -_-;;
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:48 pm 


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http://mahochan.is.land.to/m.html
What a gold mine. Here's Mahou Daisakusen 2-ALL.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:23 pm 


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zinger wrote:
http://mahochan.is.land.to/m.html
What a gold mine. Here's Mahou Daisakusen 2-ALL.
You can thank me and my buddy notman for finding that gold mine ;)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:31 pm 


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Sure, thanks! :)
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