Stick or pad

[futurebiblehero]

As a recent convert, the reason why I find that I do better with sticks is that my movement feels like it has more fluidity (whereas I find it more difficult to zigzag through a bullet field by strategically tapping).

The biggest difference, however, is the fact that it feels like I make less "wasted" moves with a stick. Perhaps it's because I'm still learning, but the increased feeling of involvement leads me to make less mistakes. There's more of a connection between my brain and my hand. With a controller, I've come to passively twitch rather than think and plan ahead.

Once again, it all comes down to preference though. I'm sure there are gamepad users out there that are better than I'll ever be.

[Frederik]

Check out the Armed Police Batrider replay by Icarus. He played with a Saturn pad, but I would have sworn he played with a stick, since his movements seemed to incredibly spot-on (almost robotic), at a time I thought that sticks were superior by standard. If you stop swooshing around and concentrate on limited, efficient movement, it will automatically improve. At least this is what helped me.

[Monk 0 Nuggets]

I'm going to say one is better than the other, but after less than a week with my Hori RAP I have dominated my best score that I with my ps2 pad in ESPgaluda. I'm still no pro, but I did beat my best score by quite a bit after becoming comfortable with the stick.

[shiftace]

People that use keyboards, on the other hand, blow my mind. I doubt I could clear the first level of any shmup using a keyboard without losing at least one life.

Indeed. If keyboards were any good, we'd all be using USB keyboards to play shooters on our PS2s (if keyboard were actually supported). But they suck, so we don't.

I guess I'll respond to this. I can play some games on some computers with some keyboards and have no control issues. Changing any of those three variables (computer, keyboard, game) can introduce noticeable input lag -- it's not always the keyboard's fault (it just usually is). To date I have not found a pad or stick that I like to use (laziness, for the most part), and I can play well enough with a keyboard, on the right computer, so I'm pretty much content. But it has affected my game selection a lot. FWIW, in the three games that I've played most (Parsec47, Nomltest, Radio Zonde), my high scores when playing at school (good setup) are about twice what they are when playing at home (bad setup), and what are trivial maneuvers in one setting are impossible in the other.
[size=0]I like to think that this is the main reason I did so shittily in STGT.[/size]

[DEL]

To me, pads only exist because the Console companies are too tight to bundle-up a 'Console & Joystick'. Its the cheap moneymaking option for Sony/Nintendo etc.
This also leads onto the point that consoles should still have cartridge software/hardware. CDs are used because, yet again, they are dirt cheap. Gimme a cartridge and stick system

CDs crash, my Pulstar CD used to crash and my Gradius V CD also crashed. These are long games, so CD crashing is a no no.

Alright, I've digressed a bit...

Simple answer = STICK!

[j^aws]

To me,...Gimme a cartridge and stick system

I agree with this (cost not being a criteria), but not with the stick. My philosophy is design the best game EVAR, and design a control system around it...

CDs crash, my Pulstar CD used to crash and my Gradius V CD also crashed. These are long games, so CD crashing is a no no.

It's usually the optical lenses that crap out, the CD's should be fine, though they might also have a finite shelf-life...

[99pence]

To be honest apart from fighting games I find a pad far more acurate than a stick and as the arcade standard is to use a stick I kind of feel like I'm cheating using a pad.

Also I think it probably makes a big difference if the stick is supported/ free standing as opposed to sitting in your lap.

I do try to practise with both depending on what system I am playing on.

[jpj]

To me, pads only exist because the Console companies are too tight to bundle-up a 'Console & Joystick'. Its the cheap moneymaking option for Sony/Nintendo etc.
This also leads onto the point that consoles should still have cartridge software/hardware. CDs are used because, yet again, they are dirt cheap. Gimme a cartridge and stick system

which brings us to reason #37 for why the neo AES is such a good machine...

[Icarus]

Weapons of choice.

[ktownhero]

Progress update on getting used to the stick in Ikaruga: I will never go back to a pad as long as I have a choice.

[Ed Oscuro]

If I remember correctly, he used the analogue stick too.... :shock:

ouch...nintendo has been great at making painful controllers for many years, I'm afraid.

@ Del: carts can crash too, but you're point's well taken; you can get right back into the action (usually) by pressing the reset button (and then there's the NES, which is another deal entirely).

I think sticks are better myself; you can nudge them just a bit and it works fine.

For what it's worth, Takahashi Meijin used a stick when doing a sort of superplay of Star Soldier....

[Damocles]

I just got done playing some Shikigami no Shiro 2 an Homura...and I must say I hate using a stick on those two. I'm perfectly fine with using a stick on Galuda, DOJ, etc., but these two throw me for a loop.

[CHI]

with shmups: STICK.....
non-shmups: PAD.....

[heurhface]

To me, pads only exist because the Console companies are too tight to bundle-up a 'Console & Joystick'. Its the cheap moneymaking option for Sony/Nintendo etc.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever goddamn read on here, and I've read some dumb shit. Are you honestly that stupid or are you just trying to get a rise out of people?

Which do you honestly think costs more? Coming up with the hardware and software to control two analog sticks, multiple analog buttons, rumble, and memory card... or just slapping eight pushbuttons and a stick in a box and calling it done? I can personally build a joystick for under $50. Taking the economy of scale into account it probably costs companies like Hori less than $20 to build a stick.

This also leads onto the point that consoles should still have cartridge software/hardware. CDs are used because, yet again, they are dirt cheap. Gimme a cartridge and stick system

Are you willing to pay multiple thousands of dollars for games? Until you are, STFU. Consider the expense of Neo Geo games, then figure on games being on average ten times the size now (some being WAY bigger). For fuck's sake... pull your head out.

CDs crash, my Pulstar CD used to crash and my Gradius V CD also crashed. These are long games, so CD crashing is a no no.

All games have bugs. All games can crash. Your point makes no sense.[/quote]

[futurebiblehero]

I think he meant that companies like Nintendo and Sega initially bundled controllers rather than joysticks because they were cheaper to manufacture at the time. Whether that's true or not, you need to chill out.

[ktownhero]

I think he meant that companies like Nintendo and Sega initially bundled controllers rather than joysticks because they were cheaper to manufacture at the time. Whether that's true or not, you need to chill out.

Yeah he needs to chill, but the original poster of that comment is kinda goofy. It's a pretty wacked theory. I mean, you know, Nintendo wanted to make a home console and they chose not to make a giant clunky box that would have to sit on a table... to save money? LOLZORZ

[heurhface]

I think he meant that companies like Nintendo and Sega initially bundled controllers rather than joysticks because they were cheaper to manufacture at the time. Whether that's true or not, you need to chill out.

Nintendo bundled a freaking robot. I doubt being cheap was on their mind.

Pads were developed because they're a far more logical solution for typical home gaming than sticks are. Some people, including the majority here, still can't deal with the fact that gaming is for the masses and not for people that line their walls with HuCards. Pads are smaller, lighter, and are easier to cram into an entertainment center when you don't want to play. They simply make more sense than sticks in a home entertainment paradigm.

[futurebiblehero]

Whether that's true or not...

Note that I didn't agree, I just stated that you need to chill out.

I honestly don't feel educated enough about the inner workings of Nintendo at the time to have much of an opinion on the matter, let alone one that I would actually argue about. Controllers being more cost effective than joysticks could be a plausible argument, though. It's not one of those theories that are so off the mark that they're worthy of public ridicule.

On the other hand, his statement on CDs versus cartridges? I wholeheartedly disagree. Apart from buying scratched discs from used game stores and dealing with FMV abuse in early titles, I can't understand how anyone would ever want cartridges back.

[DEL]

Looks like we've got a new ckm here

[heurhface]

It's not one of those theories that are so off the mark that they're worthy of public ridicule.

No, but his assertion that cost is THE reason THE ONLY REASON and THE REASON OF ONLY is quite worthy of a good taunting.

[DEL]

heurhface wrote;

GP > my mom

True. GP sucks WAY more cock than your mom.

and

i wish i knew what to do with .lzh files

Instead of being a cock you could just ask what they are.

and

So what you're saying is that you want people to play crappy games in a genre you like instead of playing non-crappy games in a genre you don't like.

That makes as much sense as a gay Jewish Nazi d ...

and

*smacks you in the earhole*

ckm???

[Halloween Jack]

Which do you honestly think costs more? Coming up with the hardware and software to control two analog sticks, multiple analog buttons, rumble, and memory card... or just slapping eight pushbuttons and a stick in a box and calling it done?

You're getting mixed up between development and manufacturing costs - DEL's obviously talking about the latter - look at the materials used in the production of an HRAP, and then look at the injection mouldings of a Dual Shock!!!

Are you willing to pay multiple thousands of dollars for games? Until you are, STFU. Consider the expense of Neo Geo games, then figure on games being on average ten times the size now (some being WAY bigger). For fuck's sake... pull your head out.

Why would you need to pay thousands of dollars, when Rare can put Killer Instinct on to an N64 cart for 30 quid. The expense of Neo carts is related to rarity, rather than meg count, particularly now that silicon is so much cheaper.

All games have bugs. All games can crash. Your point makes no sense.

Yep, they certainly do - but a solid-state cartridge eradicates the need for the transfer of data from an optical medium to RAM, which is where the crashing tends to occur. Far more preferable.

HJ

[Sonic R]

Honestly, I believe that Nintendo's 'D-pad' development and use stems from the + button design that originated and debuted on the Game & Watch. The design was such that it is was 1) compact and 2) portable.

(thank you Nintendo for 'D+pad'!)

I am a dying bread, like dinosaurs, of those who play shoot them ups with a control pad

[popawell]

Who cares if its stick or pad. Use whatever floats your boat!
Do I need to say anything simpler than that?

[freddiebamboo]

ckm???

Well said Del

[Rob]

ckm???

More like Elixir.

[Dandy J]

I am way more solid on stick. I use a MAS with a p360 joystick and Happ comp buttons.

Sometimes I play on pad cause I'm lazy and usually regret it.

[Frederik]

Honestly, I believe that Nintendo's 'D-pad' development and use stems from the + button design that originated and debuted on the Game & Watch. The design was such that it is was 1) compact and 2) portable.

(thank you Nintendo for 'D+pad'!)

I am a dying bread, like dinosaurs, of those who play shoot them ups with a control pad

Yeah, THIS is what the d-pad comes from. And I love my SNES pad, and I love it with MAME.

At the end of the day, only people owning the proper arcade setups will be able to claim to play "properly". So if you´re not playing that way, you´re not having the "real thing". If you say that sticks are the ONLY way to play shmups, then the same has to be valid for the rest of the hardware. And only if you´re playing in an original japanese arcade.
And if you´re not a japanese, you won´t be fully able to understand the beauty of shmups. Everything else is a disgrace to the japanese shmup stick arcade cab score-centric culture. Now let´s just proceed to discuss why vinyl records are superior to CDs.

[Frederik]

Who cares if its stick or pad. Use whatever floats your boat!
Do I need to say anything simpler than that?

It´s a bit sad that we need to say this over and over again. You am okay, I am okay. Damnit, it JUST FRICKING VIDEO GAMES!

[ktownhero]

I do have to say that the real key to getting the most out of playing with a stick is getting it at the right height from your arms. I was playing with my hrap on my lap for ps2, and on my computer desk for ikaruga - this is not optimal.

I then placed my hrap on a small end table in front of my chair, right at knee level, this is absolutely perfect. Seriously, I am able to play better that way. I find having the stick around knee height is really key to playing at your beset. And, it's for some reason more enjoyable that way too.