Best Gamepad for Shumping ..

S1nn3r · Post by **S1nn3r** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:07 pm

Have a Supergun with Neo-Geo wired DB15 Controller ports on the way as well as the Ibara kit So am after some ideas for gamepads that may be suitable..

Have been looking at the Neo-Geo pads, and older digital only Sega Saturn pads so far, any others I should be looking at ?

Arznei · Post by **Arznei** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:31 pm

Saturn pad is obligatory for shooters if you aren't doing sticks.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:51 pm

I have no idea what "shumping" is, but as for playing shooters, go with the regular Saturn pad.

The Neo Geo pads kinda suck for shooters, as precision movement is a bit dodgy with that mini-stick thingy.

S1nn3r · Post by **S1nn3r** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:56 pm

Next odvious question is anyone able to provide me with a pair of said Saturn pads hacked up/modded to work on D-Lite Supergun with DB15 ports then ??

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:56 pm

CIT wrote:I have no idea what "shumping" is

It does sound kinky. I might ask the missus if she's up for it.

S1nn3r · Post by **S1nn3r** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:09 pm

CIT wrote:I have no idea what "shumping" is, but as for playing shooters, go with the regular Saturn pad.

The Neo Geo pads kinda suck for shooters, as precision movement is a bit dodgy with that mini-stick thingy.

Would Genesis 6 button pads do the job as well as the Saturn ones, they seem look pretty similar ?

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:36 pm

Yeah, those are pretty great too, albeit a bit less ergodynamic.

Afaik they're easier to mod as well, because they don't have a chip inside.

segasonicfan · Post by **segasonicfan** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:38 pm

I'm actually partial to the Neo Geo CD pads. If they are in good condition then have incredible response.

I could make you some Saturn pads if you like though. PM me if you're interested.

-Segasonicfan

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:32 am

Genesis Six button pads do have a chip inside.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:05 am

I've done a few Genesis 6-button pads. It's fairly easy... just clip off the chip and reconnect some wires to the chip's solder points left behind. It's pretty time consuming for such a simple mod though.

Here's one of the old Saturn pads I did, this one is using just 3 buttons so I can use the original cord (and original ground on the cord).

It's basically the same for a Genesis 6-button, although the later ones I made were improved a bit. I cut the trace on the PCB of the original ground so that I could accomodate a 10-core cable for 4 buttons, and just soldered my ground wire to some other exposed ground point on the PCB.

I later fixed up my first Saturn pad the same way. Here are the Gen6B and Saturn pad side by side. Same D-pad as far as I can tell, and at least in these parts, Gen6Bs are a lot more common and cheaper than Saturn pads.

I've never tried a NGCD pad, but I'd love to.. Maybe I'll hit up eBay right now...
edit: and just bought one off eBay. Thanks for making me spend money impulsively guys :p

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:07 am

The Sega Saturn 6-button pad; hands down. I'm also very fond of the Dreamcast pad as well. My hands feel very confortable while using it.

SuperGrafx · Post by **SuperGrafx** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:16 pm

Why not try a Neo Geo new style joystick?
They work rather well, and the stick is microswitched with very short throw.

Franz the Stampede · Post by **Franz the Stampede** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:18 pm

Will those Saturn-controllers-but-it-actually-plugs-into-a-PS2 ever be back in stock in the usual shops?

click

Jeffrey · Post by **Jeffrey** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:27 am

Is it possible to modify a Saturn pad to work with a PS2, or is there a Saturn to PS2 converter available for purchase?

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:08 am

Jeffrey wrote:Is it possible to modify a Saturn pad to work with a PS2, or is there a Saturn to PS2 converter available for purchase?

I have only mapped to the four face buttons + start on the PS1 controller though. But a DB-15 when not following standard NeoGeo spec should have enough lines to map all the buttons on a PS1 controller. And most of the PS2 games we play here are compatible with PS1 controllers.
Oh, and the adaptor still works as a PS1 controller, so if you ever need to press Select, you can still do it on the adaptor.

Yup, knowing how to solder is handy. I learned when I was 11 years old, so it should be pretty easy for anyone to pick up.

Savory · Post by **Savory** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:53 pm

Wow iatneH, that's very cool!

I was thinking about trying something similar, but never thought to leave the PS1 controller intact to use the select button. I may have to try that out. Would it be possible with a Dual Shock to retain the use of pushing in the sticks (L3 & R3 I think)?

Vokatse wrote:Wow! I have never seen those before. Too bad I don't own a PS2.

Also, does anybody know if these work well for shmups?

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-2a- ... 0-mi5.html

I picked up an AKUMA model last time I was home, but I haven't tried it yet. It looks similar to a SS pad.

I have one of those, but I've never tried shmupping with it. Unfortunately it does not work well for fighters because they screwed up the d-pad somehow and it doesn't seem to register diagonals very well. The PS2 version on the other hand works fine. I'll give it a try this weekend and see if it's any good.

S1nn3r · Post by **S1nn3r** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:50 pm

Little update..

Now have some modded Genesis controllers on the way.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:51 pm

Savory wrote:Wow iatneH, that's very cool! :D
I was thinking about trying something similar, but never thought to leave the PS1 controller intact to use the select button. I may have to try that out. Would it be possible with a Dual Shock to retain the use of pushing in the sticks (L3 & R3 I think)?

Thanks, I think matt here made an identical one long before I did, but I swear I never saw it before I made mine.

Actually, to keep the controller intact like this, you will require a very certain hardware revision of the controller which already has some open solder points for every button. Otherwise you will have to do some sanding to create your own solder points, possibly destroying the adaptor's ability to still be used as a standalone PS1 controller.
I'm not sure how to tell 100% without opening it up, but it may be the "Made in Malaysia" (or it might have been "Made in Indonesia") controllers with a bit of rough texture on the D-pad. But you'll know once you open it up, it's a more compact PCB inside and along each button line there will be a small gold circle that is not covered by the green protective layer, and you can solder wires to these circles.

It should be possible to use a DualShock controller since I believe L3 and R3 are tactile switches that you can solder to. However, if you want L3 and R3, you'll have to sacrifice something else if you use a DB-15. With only 15 lines, that's only enough to support the D-pad, 4 shoulder buttons, 4 face buttons, start/select, and GND. Plus there's the problem of where to mount the connector.
Worst case is you rip out the PCB and stick it in another box and use a DB-25 or another connector with more lines, and use an external button wired to Select.

Best way to get the proper hardware revision is to just go to a flea market or pawn shop and buy a bag of controllers and hope that at least one of them is the right one... maybe the seller will cut you a bulk discount ;)

edit: controller info is not right, see my post below.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:47 pm

iatneH wrote:Actually, to keep the controller intact like this, you will require a very certain hardware revision of the controller...
I'm not sure how to tell 100% without opening it up, but it may be the "Made in Malaysia" (or it might have been "Made in Indonesia") controllers with a bit of rough texture on the D-pad.

Sorry, what I wrote here is not right... I am now at home and looking at the adaptor I made, and 3 other controllers. Here's what I found:

The controller I made my adaptor from is a "Made in China" one, and has the letter H above China.
One of my other controllers is Made in China and also has the letter H, I opened it up and it's the good easily hackable PCB.
A different Made in China controller has the letter M above China, and the PCB inside is not easy to hack like the China H controller.
Finally, I have a Made in Phillipines controller with no additional letter; the PCB also lacks the easy solder points.

So, what to look out for is the controller whose back looks like this (sorry, I don't have a camera with me):

Code: Select all

SONY(R)

CONTROLLER
Sony Computer
Entertainment Inc.     H
------------------------
SCPH-1080  MADE IN CHINA

Savory · Post by **Savory** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:58 pm

Awesome, thanks for the info. I might have time to give this a shot this week.

I've got a couple old PS1 pads boxed up somewhere, I'll have to dig them out and see which they are. Otherwise, I know there's a media resale shop near me that has quite a few of them for $3 or $4 each. I'll skip trying to do it with a dual shock. I'd rather have a DB15 connector on it. There was only one game I have that needed L3 or R3 anyway and I can't even remember which. Sega Genesis Collection maybe?

edit: Did you use anything special for the cord & wires or just something you had laying around?

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:58 pm

The cord of my Saturn controller is just a length of serial cable. 9 insulated cores and one bare core, so it's perfect for D-pad + 4 buttons + start + GND.

For the connections in the PS1 controller, I just ripped out the cores of the same kind of serial cable and used those. If you're using some other kind of wire, try to find a thinner one because a few of your wires need to be slipped under the rubber plungers on the controller and they will interfere with your button pressing if they are too thick.

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:23 am

oh there's what I did: http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1442 ... jpgny3.jpg

ktownhero · Post by **ktownhero** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:51 pm

I have an ASCII 6 Button Fighting Pad for DC games. I imported it about 6 years ago when I was really into 2d fighters. Now it is my favorite shmup pad.

I also like the Hori GC pad a lot. The buttons just feel right.

icepick · Post by **icepick** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:29 am

Wow, I need to check the hardware forum more often; this thread is really interesting and helpful!

I was also thinking that I'd like to save my pads for use, and simply add a relatively unobtrusive connector for adaptor purposes. I looked all over Wikipedia for potential 15-pin candidates, and while mini-VGA and mini-DVI looked cool for NeoGeo standard pinout in a modern connector, I haven't been able to find much in the way of bulk jacks and plugs.

Anyway, I just lost a bid on a NeoGeo PS2 pad for about 16 USD. I've been looking into controllers to see what I can hack up and cause to serve my purposes. I'm a big fan of the Saturn pads, but I'm not about to potentially destroy my original pad. I have a white one that came with a JP Saturn, but the buttons are very mushy. It's curious, because my original US pad seems as responsive as it's ever been, and it has seen a lot of use. (Then again, the JP Saturn pad has probably actually played shmups! Oh! Really, I'm planning on getting Layer Section and Darius Gaiden as soon as possible.)

So, even though Sega Logistics Service (right?) have increased the prevalence of Saturn-style pads, they still seem hard to find, and I'm still wanting to try a NeoGeo pad out someday but chances look slim for that as well. I just searched the forum for information on those inexpensive Street Fighter Anniversary pads (for PS2), but it sounds like I wouldn't like those. Basically, I think that I need to stick to my guns and drop the funds to get a DC arcade stick, which is all I really want. There are too many new games coming out right now, though, so I suppose that it will have to wait.

I have a few Genesis 6-button controllers, but I believe that I sent my best spare to a friend of mine (which I'm of course fully happy with). I'm simply curious as to whether or not the Saturn-style D-pad would affect my performance in the DC games that I have, and I know that I could find out tomorrow (well, sooner than I can get a DC arcade stick) if I simply hacked up one of my controllers.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:47 am

I find that those cheapo Street Fighter pads aren't too terribly bad. They don't really feel like anything else out there. The D-Pad is raised a bit, which gives it a very unique feel. Not bad, though not necessarily good. To me the buttons are a bit too stiff, but I only really noticed this after an hour with Gradius where I was holding down one button the entire time. Keep in mind, that they are not smooth when you rotate your thumb around the D-Pad. It's almost like there is a restrictor plate underneath the plastic keeping the motion octagonal. I picked a used one up for $5, so they don't exactly break the bank. ...and except for the crappy artwork, I'm happy with mine.

icepick · Post by **icepick** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:27 am

Ah, thank you for the details. They definitely seem to be on the inexpensive side, so maybe it couldn't hurt to pick one up and test it out. The D-pad octagonal motion limitation actually sounds like it could be useful, but then again, I can also imagine it being too restrictive... but stiff action buttons sound like they'd be tiring after a while. It's strange how all of these details can contribute to the comfort level, overall performance and enjoyment of playing games (not unlike my recent thoughts regarding the GBA/DS/DS Lite).

I think that I'll stop by the local GameStop sometime soon and check out what they have. In the very least, I'll have a new pad to retire one of my 3-button Sega Genesis controllers that I never use.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:15 am

I took apart my SFAC pad (PS2) tonight and found out some interesting stuff. First, you can swap out the rubber piece that separates the buttons from the pcb with one from a standard PS2 pad. This makes for a significantly shallower, as well as lighter, D-Pad. Now, I havn't done it yet, but I think if you sand down the plastic tabs that hold the D-pad aligned, it will make the pad smoother and eliminate the diamond-like motion the pad inherently has. Updates soon.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:14 pm

Best gamepad?

... The Staurn 3D analogue controller, IMO. There was some discussion in this recent thread,

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=12815

Post by **system11** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:21 pm

What everyone else said - Saturn pad easily. You can get PS2 versions of them too.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:40 pm

how much better at playing shmups are arcade joyticks compared to regular PC keyboards ?

Best Gamepad for Shumping ..

Best Gamepad for Shumping ..

joysticks / keyboards