XRGB2 - My experiences.

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neorichieb1971
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XRGB2 - My experiences.

Post by neorichieb1971 »

On Friday I went and purchased an XRGB2, this is the grey one that has PCB support.

Image

The unit I bought had a 2000+ serial so I assume its one of the oldest units around. It was described as new from the store assistant but it looked used and some of the cables were opened already. The unit cost $100.


Tested with -

PS2/PS1
Sega Genesis 2
21" SVGA Dell Trinitron monitor
Cables provided by Matt (at least 18 months ago).


Since these usually cost $200+ and the RGB cables are hard to get, alot of you are probably put off by the price alone. So I thought I would give you some of my experiences.


Setting up.

Setting up the unit should be quite easy for most people. However I had problems straight away. First I took the VGA cable from the output of the XRGB and put that into the monitor. I plugged the PS2 RGB cable into the XRGB2 and switched everything on. Nothing happened.

I figured out the left hand button on the XRGB was the select input. It toggles between Svideo/Video (composite) and RGB (21 pin RGB). When the unit was in RGB mode the input light came on to show a signal was getting to it, but nothing was displayed on the screen.

So I thought to myself, try another console. Out came the Genesis 2. Plugged all in, nothing happened again. Started to get worried at this point. Again the input light came on, but no graphics on screen at all. However I was getting the input light to show that an RGB input was recognized.

At this point, I changed the cables to the monitor, since the XRGB2 has 2 output cables. One is standard VGA, the other is a DB15 to VGA. Both cables were included. This made no difference.

Then I remembered something, that PS2's need to be in RGB mode. So I take my PS2 over to my TV and change the Y BR thingy to RGB. I take it to the XRGB2 and voila, i'm seeing an upscanned image on my monitor.. Hoorah!



First impressions

First thing I saw was Onimusha 3's introduction video. It looked OK, I wasn't blown away with the image quality at all. But I hadn't fiddled with options and such at this point. Just by going from video to in game graphics made a big difference but still not earth shatteringly good.



Fiddling options

I don't know all the options on the XRGB2 off hand. But there are about 10-12 of them. Some of them written in English, some in Japanese.

Most of them are pointless, since they counter the options set on your monitor. For instance, the black level was preset to zero. If you go anywhere near 25% the screen is already black and you can't see anything at all. So I left that alone at zero %.



Gamma option -

Gamma option seems to brighten and darken the screen. There are only 4 options 1-4.


V-Line option -

This adds fake interlaced lines. I got mixed results with it. If your media is 2D such as a shmup it works rather well. Some old school Galaga or Ms Pacman looked freaking awesome just like the PCB. However, I didn't like its effect on 3D games too much. Games looked overall cleaner with V-Line on, if you took it off things look really glary to the point colors blend.


I did play with all the other options but to be honest there wasn't really much point to them. On a couple of the options I went through top to bottom and couldn't tell a difference on the screen. :lol:



Genesis 2 again

So what went wrong here? Put it back on the XRGB2, again black screen. I touched the cable on the Gene end and boom, a picture came up. It doesn't seem to be problem so far. Maybe it was the cartridge, since this system has been sitting dormant for 2 years :lol: . Again, the picture was glary, colors blended. The brightness is so overwhelming that no matter what you fiddle with on your monitor or your XRGB it never looks PERFECT. So I'm assuming there is something not right here.


I remember reading a while back you can put a chip inside the cable which counters this problem. I have also just remembered that when fiddling with the XRGB the PCB switch on the front (Exclusive to the XRGB2) makes the image darker.. Maybe I need to use that.

The fact remains that I don't see the visuals on screen that I saw with my Astro City I owned a year ago. Its got the clarity, its just too damn glary.



Inputs/outputs

I had a few problems figuring out this stuff. It seems the RCA's on the back are inputs to go with the video/svideo inputs. I was trying all sorts to get sound out of it :lol:

So you have composite in, svideo in, RCA L+R in. I didn't use these. Unfortunately the only audio output is via 3.5mm jack for PC speakers. It works great.

Obviously the RGB input is the Japanese 21 RGB input on the front which is not to my liking. I would prefer it on the back.


The outputs are a DB15 and a DB9, both do the same thing.. Cables are provided for both.. I have no idea why you need two outputs.


The throughput for use with PC's I used with my Dreamcast. If you switch the XRGB2 off, it automatically sends any input from a 31khz device to the screen if you have it looped through the XRGB2.



DVD's on the PS2 are green, this is normal.


So am I happy with the XRGB2? I am not 100% happy. Most games are glary. Watching Robocods intro with a snow background hurt my eyes. Turning the brightness down helps but to get it to the point where it bearable, its too dark! :lol:


I need to play more, see if I can get something going on. But right now there are too many options that do nothing to rectify my problem.. I will update if I find something new.. and I'd appreciate some feedback..


Thanks.
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sven666
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Post by sven666 »

interesting read! :)

mind taking a few snapshots of it in action so we can see the picture quality?
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neorichieb1971
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Post by neorichieb1971 »

I only have a cell phone for taking pics, wouldn't really work that well.

It certainly delivers clarity, sprites are well defined with the V-line on (this enables fake scanlines).

I really need more time to test it.


Oh, I forgot to mention that video noise sometimes rears its ugly head. It happens sometimes when using SCART TV's via SCART leads as well. This is when the screen goes completely white on a quiet moment and you can hear interference through the audio. I think this is more to do with the cable than anything else. I never encountered this with composite/svideo or component video. I've also come across SCART leads which make a humming noise all the time. Thankfully none of my cables cause this.

I'm going to give the XRGB another run today, using PCB mode to see if it clears things up.

I'll take 2 pictures today of the XRGB in action, maybe 3 and post them tonight.
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PC Engine Fan X!
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PCEFX's say on the XRGB-2 upscan convertor...

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

Since the call for the XRGB-2 went out here on the Shmups.org.system11 site, PC Engine Fan X!'s here with some more insightful info regarding the XRGB-2...

The microswitch that selects between "RGB PCB/STD" -- this allows one to choose the proper setting for use with a Supergun setup (select 'RGB PCB' setting) and with the second setting of 'RGB STD' ('RGB Standard' for use with game consoles).

The second VGA output (the DB-9 output one) in the back of the XRGB-2 is for use with an Japanese 15 kHz sync rate NEC type analog VGA monitor if you read the XRGB-2's instruction manual. ^_~

Believe it or not, both the original Japanese Bios version Sony PS2 10000 & 15000 series consoles can output RGB signal with no dreaded "green screen" whatsoever via the XRGB-2 setup. It was with the later released versions of the PS2 console that Sony added the "green screen" to circumvent unauthorized DVD transfers to VHS method when using Japanese 21-pin RGB cable setup in conjunction with an XRGB-2 & a special RGB to composite video convertor hacked device. ^_~

Sure, the XRGB-2 does have built-in support for use with the Toaplan & Seibu Kaihatsu arcade PCBs such as: Batusgun, Raiden II, Raiden DX, and the SP1 motherboard as well. It's the odd sync rate of these particular arcade Jamma PCBs output that the XRGB-2 can lock on to to display a stable and proper picture on an analog based CRT-based PC monitor. No other XRGB device can do that which makes an XRB-2 worth owning for that purpose. ^_~

I use my XRGB-2 with the following:

Sony Playstation

Sony PSone

Sony Playstation 2

Sega Dreamcast

and

Supergun setup

Sure, one'll get a better picture if using a true low resolution 15kHz sync rated analog RGB monitor such as the Commodore Amiga monitor or an CRT-based arcade monitor. ^_~

It's the later produced XRGB-2+ & the XRGB-3 that have support for the LCD-based flat screen PC monitors (which the XRGB-1 & the XRGB-2 are solely for use with an analog CRT-based PC monitor only). ^_~

It's best to have the Japanese RGB input in the front for easy access on the XRGB-2 if one wants to change different gaming consoles or plug in a Supergun setup. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
barakka
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Post by barakka »

Hello,
The unit cost $100.
Where did you find it?:shock:
Do they have other units available???? 100$ it's really cheap!
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azmun
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Re: PCEFX's say on the XRGB-2 upscan convertor...

Post by azmun »

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:I use my XRGB-2 with the following:

Sega Dreamcast

Sure, one'll get a better picture if using a true low resolution 15kHz sync rated analog RGB monitor such as the Commodore Amiga monitor or an CRT-based arcade monitor.
I agree that traditional CRT display via RGB signal offers the best image quality for most games partly since that's the standard output the developers designed their games to run on. However, I'm still puzzled why anyone would choose to hook up their Dreamcast to a VGA monitor using XRGB when they've got the DC VGA box.
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Post by Specineff »

The genesis 2 looks extremely bright because it has a lot of current going through the RGB lines. It's necessary to solder a resistor on each in order to dampen the signal.

I was also disappointed with my XRGB2. It is NOT the next best thing to an RGB monitor, not by a mile. I'll post pics of my experiment soon.

Over and out.
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neorichieb1971
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Post by neorichieb1971 »

I played quite alot today with the XRGB. I am getting more impressed the more I play.

As for the comments above. I am using the DB9 output on my 31khz Dell SVGA monitor and it works fine. The DB15 output works fine also.

Question: What is the very top option in Japanese?


Ok, as said before played around.. Mostly set up the Green and Blue to max and this made things more contrasty. Seems to have made a big difference to the vibrancy of the image. At default it was only half way up.

There is no red, unless that is the top option in Japanese. Which is also maxxed out.

Gamma = 3.

V-LINE on unless otherwise stated.


I set up this via Ico on PS2, since the game has alot of white shades which is where the bloominess comes in. Got it right then went in for the hardcore colours. First game up Rainbow Islands extra.

I chose Rainbow Islands because its 2D and has all the colors of the rainbow. It was beautiful. I knew I was in for a treat because the white text on black background during bootup was the clearest image you could possibly get. Once the colors hit the screen I was in RGB Nirvana.

Bubble Bobble - I doubt I could of got a better image with the PCB. On the EXTEND screen, colors were sharp and beautiful.. unbelievable.

Rez - Again, absolutely awesome, some aliasing evident but that might be the game.

Mushimesama (TATE mode) - YUCK! I would have to say it looks better on my TV. The filtered graphics blur with the XRGB, its like its going through some extra processing or something.

Raiden DX - Sharp as a blade. (in TATE of course)

Burnout 2 - I had a play with this one. Took V-Line off and it seemed to work pretty well with this game. I put it back on though ;)



To answer some Questions above -

Why do you use the XRGB with Dreamcast when you can use the VGA cable instead?

Answer : Not all games support VGA. Using the XRGB is an option to play Non VGA games on a VGA monitor.



Where did you buy the XRGB2 for $100?

Answer : Game Trader in St Louis. It was used, only one in stock i'm afraid. There is one for sale at gamesx.com forums I think, although it might be a member here.. can't remember.




So Specineff! Can you fix my RGB cable for the Genesis 2? Or do you know someone who can fix it? Thanks.
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neorichieb1971
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Post by neorichieb1971 »

This will be my end set up :

VIDEO

21" Dell CRT Trinitron SVGA (for TATE as well)
XRGB2 - For 15khz games
Neoya XVGA2+ (Review coming up when I get it) - For 31khz games


www.x2vga.com (Requires 480p and component cables for each console, has 2 inputs and requires PC speakers/Receiver for audio).

PS1/2 480i > XRGB2/RGB > Monitor
PS2 480p > Neoya XVGA2 > Monitor
GC 480i > XRGB2/Svideo > Monitor (Or use on my Component TV)
GC 480p > Neoya XVGA2 > Monitor
DC 480i > XRGB2/RGB > Monitor
DC VGA > XRGB2/VGA > Monitor
Genesis 2 > XRGB2/RGB > Monitor
SNES > XRGB2/RGB > Monitor
Saturn > XRGB2/RGB > Monitor
N64 > XRGB2/Svideo > Monitor (Or TV)
3DO > XRGB2/Svideo > Monitor (Or TV)
Wii VGA > Monitor
XB360 VGA > Monitor
PS3 > Monitor (by whatever method)

AUDIO

Logitech 2.1 PC speakers.


Review

I bought these speakers about 2 weeks ago. I am not the sort of person that needs 5.1 at the moment. Although I appreciate 5.1 immensily, I just need a good clean sounding system at the moment.

So I open the box, everything is well packed and the box is heavy. I was suprised to see the bulk of the content is actually the subwoofer and its solid as a rock. The main reason I chose this system is because reviews on the net were favorable for the price and it includes a game console adaptor which allows RCA cables > 3.5" Jack. Meaning that if using component video/svideo or composite video you can insert the RCA/Phonos into the adaptor and convert it to 3.5" female suitable for PC speakers like these (and others) and it is also necessary for this setup to work with the X2VGA2.

Once you empty the box and look at the contents you get A) subwoofer B) Satellites and C) lots of cables/manual and console adaptor.

The satellties look great, very sophisticated. The subwoofer whilst hidden most of the time has a shiny finish on the front and looks rather nice out in the open. At first the cabling seemed a little daunting because the satellites are hooked together (you cannot detach them) and a DB9 cable (detachable) joins the satellites to the subwoofer which plugs into the wall socket. The right channel satellite has the power switch and volume control.

I first tried the PS2 using the adaptor. So I thought I would try something musical to start out. Gitaroo man stared me in the face so off I went into the Gitaroo world. I have to say for $25 this system blew me away completely. Its unbelievable for the price. I spent 2 hours the week prior searching/walking about walmart for one of those all in one systems ($100-$300) and they sounded diabolical compared to this. The subwoofer was vibrating anything and everything, my landlord came in from the garage and wondered where the bass was coming from :lol:. For most users this is loud enough with no hint of distortion or anything.

Took the adaptor out of the equation, plugged in the DC via VGA cable, inserted 3.5" Jack, popped in Mr Driller and :lol: , the title screen music rocked my world. If you want a simple 2.1 audio system and are thinking about the VGA route for HD or XRGB gaming, this is the audio system to get. It will definately put a smile on your face.

Logitech options -

XRGB2 has 3.5 line in and out. DC throughput via 3.5>3.5 cable should do the trick for that. (XRGB2 + DC catered for)

Pelican switcher audio out > Logitech adaptor to 3.5". So this means if I unplug the DC 3.5 and connect the adaptor, I'd not often have to change this cable. (All 480P neoya X2VGA devices catered for).


CONTROLS

AgeTec Joystick (standard at the moment)
HRAP 2 or maybe Tekken 5 stick (not decided yet)



Video/Audio switch box


Pelican Pro selector 2.0

I'm getting this because it will enable 7 component devices. I would only have 3 at the time (PS2/GC/DVD player). All will output to X2VGA > Monitor.

I chose the pelican pro because there is no loss of quality and it comes with detachable input buttons which you can switch to extras which come with it. They are already labelled "Genesis" "n64" "Gamecube" etc. Which is a really nice touch, comes in black and white models :D



I suppose your all wondering why go to all this hassle. Its just a project, so far everything has been on the cheap, so why not :lol:
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elvis
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Post by elvis »

neorichieb1971 wrote:Neoya XVGA2+ (Review coming up when I get it) - For 31khz games
I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of that. I've been considering one for myself but am hesitant.
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