Death Smiles: Countdown to North America Invasion

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:11 pm

Taylor wrote:http://cave-game.cocolog-nifty.com/blog ... -5a83.html
I can't read this myself, but I hear the HD graphics are just for the obligatory Arrange Mode, and the original game will be in its SD blocky glory.

It doesn't state anything like that in that blog entry. My guess is the player will get the option. Just a hunch.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:42 pm

RackGaki wrote:http://www.digitalmonkeybox.com/deathsm ... rrange.htm

It's nice to see that this game will be getting a visual boost. Good deal, I say.

And no antares, I don't actually think Ikaruga was ruined.

If this kind of remake had been proposed by 5pb with their conversions (as well as including the original graphics mode), then I guess they would have had a much easier time getting published Worldwide on XBLA (as has been the case with the new R-Type Dimensions).

dmzach · Post by **dmzach** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:48 pm

I don't think I understand... is this getting both an xbla and physical release? Because there has been talk about both.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:57 pm

dmzach wrote:I don't think I understand... is this getting both an xbla and physical release? Because there has been talk about both.

It's getting a physical release only. The guy in charge of handling the conversion has expressed interest in releasing at least one Cave game through XBLA (but it needs to be stressed that it's simply him stating what he would like to do, and not in any way an official anouncement).

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:01 pm

It could be a catch 22 situation. If they don't inlcude a HD graphics mode, then it won't be considered different enough to publish on XBLA by Microsoft, yet if they include a HD mode, it might be too big to distribute online. I think the XBLA limit is 150MB, but Microsoft have been known to make exceptions.

hirounder · Post by **hirounder** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:59 am

There's another example of improved (menu) graphics put on Cave's blog

Also there's short interview with Ikeda put on blog aswell, he mentions he would like to make Ketsui 2

Q 今後やりたいことは？

A ケツイ2
ここからしばし、理想の未来図の二人の妄想がしばらく続いたので
カットします（笑）

http://cave-game.cocolog-nifty.com/blog ... -c08a.html

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:12 pm

Looks excellent. The style lends itself perfectly to the higher definition. If it does well, I wonder if Cave will finally drop low-res for *all* their games?

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:36 pm

hirounder wrote:Also there's short interview with Ikeda put on blog aswell, he mentions he would like to make Ketsui 2

Q 今後やりたいことは？

A ケツイ2
ここからしばし、理想の未来図の二人の妄想がしばらく続いたので
カットします（笑）
http://cave-game.cocolog-nifty.com/blog ... -c08a.html

OMG!

Emph

moonblood · Post by **moonblood** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:44 pm

Lolis and helicopters, yay

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:51 pm

Deathsmiles is looking beautiful.

It's a lot easier to see when you've got a real screenshot instead of one enemy on a black background. I'm so psyched for this.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:56 pm

hirounder wrote:There's another example of improved (menu) graphics put on Cave's blog

http://cave-game.cocolog-nifty.com/phot ... 0/24/2.jpg
http://cave-game.cocolog-nifty.com/phot ... 0/24/1.jpg

oh man, if cave dont up to hires for their next arcade game i dont know what

what a world of difference!

joeboto · Post by **joeboto** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:08 pm

the top pic reminds me of DOS era.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:45 pm

I needs it.

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:56 pm

Weird that that orange thing moved.

Weirder that I noticed that the orange thing moved.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:00 pm

Weird that you can select stuff in a menu and then your choice is highlighted

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:06 pm

Ah, is that what that orange thing is?

I thought it was just a text box with some orange shit behind whatever the hell they felt like

Why would I assume a logical explanation, after all

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:12 pm

Nah it selects your sub-type, if i'm not mistaken.
Although i played the game i don't exactly know what it does ^^"

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:15 pm

Do you think they re-drew the art or did they draw it in high-res first and then scaled it down and cleaned it up? I suppose the latter but then again I have no idea how these things work. Looks really neat! (In the case of the rendered enemies like the ogre they certainly just re-rendered it in hi-res, right?)

dmauro · Post by **dmauro** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:16 pm

Frederik wrote:Do you think they re-drew the art or did they draw it in high-res first and then scaled it down and cleaned it up? I suppose the latter but then again I have no idea how these things work. Looks really neat! (In the case of the rendered enemies like the ogre they certainly just re-rendered it in hi-res, right?)

I think they usually render them from 3d models.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:49 pm

Hmmm...maybe I'm reading too far into the screens posted above, but considering that they're all surrounded by the same "wallpaper," does this suggest that both a low- and high-res mode will in fact be included? If nothing else that should offer something for both the videophiles and the purists.

I also noticed a counter up in the corner of the blog, it looks like it'll be at zero in about six days...what's it counting down to, the next blog update?

RackGaki · Post by **RackGaki** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:04 pm

dmauro wrote:
Frederik wrote:Do you think they re-drew the art or did they draw it in high-res first and then scaled it down and cleaned it up? I suppose the latter but then again I have no idea how these things work. Looks really neat! (In the case of the rendered enemies like the ogre they certainly just re-rendered it in hi-res, right?)
I think they usually render them from 3d models.

That would make sense. I remember reading an interview with one of the people in Vanillaware (Princess Crown, Odin Sphere) and he lamented how difficult it was to find artists who could draw 2D sprites - well.
Odin Sphere was drawn at a very high resolution, and had to be scaled down there to work on the PS2. Since they actually draw every frame, it costs a fortune compared to simply manipulating a 3D model and making it a 2D sprite.

If you find a 2D game with graphic-novel grade visuals, it was probably hand-drawn frame by frame (see Blazeblue, Guilty Gear, SSFII Turbo HD).

Makes sense that everyone else just renders from 3D. Saves money. Lots of it.

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:56 pm

Jockel wrote:Nah it selects your sub-type, if i'm not mistaken.
Although i played the game i don't exactly know what it does ^^"

You are mistaken. :p

It chooses whether or not you get the "game instructions" before play. The lo-res one says "no", the hi-res one says "yes" (paraphrased).

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:04 pm

oh, ok.
Thanks for clearing that up.

antares · Post by **antares** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:07 pm

sven666 wrote: oh man, if cave dont up to hires for their next arcade game i dont know what what a world of difference!

Well have you played some of the latest Cave shmups? Mushihimesama Futari for example looks absolutely stunning and awesome, one of the best "oldschool sprite SD graphics" I've ever had the pleasure to see. I certainly hope Cave will stick to LoRes in their arcade games for a very long time to come

Of course it makes sense to redraw the sprites in HD for the XBox 360. Seeing RFA you either have the option to have a blurry filter over the game or without the filter the graphics look very blocky compared to the actual PCB. New consoles and new TVs sadly just aren't good enough for SD graphics

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:18 pm

RackGaki wrote:Since they actually draw every frame, it costs a fortune compared to simply manipulating a 3D model and making it a 2D sprite.

Actually, Vanillaware's style is all about not having to draw every frame. What they seem to do is draw one frame and then manipulate that frame in different ways. The final result is achieved by combining many individually animated/transformed objects into one. It's not unlike what is done in Flash. They probably draw some in-between frames for the more advanced animations though. The point is that they too try to get away with as few frames as possible.

I really wish some developer would make a modern 'fully animated', high resolution action game, as I believe that is where the strenght of 2d graphics lie, though I realise that there is probably no way to get financial support for such a project.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:35 pm

Making a 3D model is very expensive, it’s just the animation time is reduced. This doesn’t really apply to Cave games because the models are low-poly and sprites have very few frames. I imagine they do it for the helping hand with perspective, there’s definitely a fair bit of 2D work done on them post-render.

The new KOF seems to be 2D sprites made from tracing a 3D model, which is maybe a compromise but to me lacks the caricature that makes 2D animation great.

RackGaki · Post by **RackGaki** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:40 pm

Thanks for clearing that up. Given how expensive it is for them to animate even with tools like this, I don't want to think about how much it would cost them otherwise. I can picture in my head what you are talking about too, with scale armor expanding and contracting on the king at the start of the game. Kind of ridiculous to draw that over and over, and still have more parts of the character left to draw, animate and manipulate.

Money definitely plays into why Udon was only commissioned to redraw the original animation of Street Fighter II, and not to add any new frames in between.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:47 pm

antares wrote:
sven666 wrote: oh man, if cave dont up to hires for their next arcade game i dont know what what a world of difference!
Well have you played some of the latest Cave shmups? Mushihimesama Futari for example looks absolutely stunning and awesome,

yeah i have.
i agree cave are masters of lo-res but they have really come to the end as far as lo-res graphics can go, if you look at say guilty gear playing next to the latest cave game you will too notice it is a world of difference, one that seriously doesnt favour the cave game im afraid

and dont say cave cant do it for whatever reason, that picture of deathsmiles is obviously proof they can.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:51 pm

antares wrote:Of course it makes sense to redraw the sprites in HD for the XBox 360. Seeing RFA you either have the option to have a blurry filter over the game or without the filter the graphics look very blocky compared to the actual PCB. New consoles and new TVs sadly just aren't good enough for SD graphics

I doubt they're redrawing anything. All of the originall art assets were mostly likely done at higher resolutions and then scaled down to fit the arcade hardware.

RFA's problems stem more from the fact that the games run at 54 htz, which is an awkward frequency. Also, the 360 can't output 240p, but the games look fair on an SD TV through S-Video.

ill6 · Post by **ill6** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:50 am

Wow... Go away for a few months and they release another Black Label!

Has anyone bought / played this and if so is it any good? I have looked twice but can only see chat about XBOX...

Can someone do me a favour and remind me of the PCB store to get this FJCOM or something? I can't seem to find the info any more... Sorry for being a fuckwit.

Anyone know if this is sold out?