XRGB-mini Framemeister

[NormalFish]

Anyone familiar with trying to get Metal Slug Anthology on the PS2 to look nice via the framemeister? I think the interlaced nature of the title is creating some obnoxious artifacts on the vertical axis. I'm using H_Scaler and V_Scaler both set to 5 and this is a decent balance but it's definitely softer than I'd like.

Also, nice page FBX. How different are your various 480i/p console profiles? I noticed there was a width difference between those two NGC profiles and that surprised me.

[FBX]

I noticed there was a width difference between those two NGC profiles and that surprised me.

If you mean vertical width, yes, it had to be done in order to reach integer 2x. No idea why 480i and 480p would require different vertical widths, but they do.

[NormalFish]

I noticed there was a width difference between those two NGC profiles and that surprised me.

If you mean vertical width, yes, it had to be done in order to reach integer 2x. No idea why 480i and 480p would require different vertical widths, but they do.

so tangentially, can you explain to me the differences between the zoom width option and the H/V width options, as well as the differences between the Zoom H/V position and visual settings H/V position options?

Trying to really get those last few tweaks to my configurations such that I'm happy with them, but as is the nature of the device, I find myself fumbling trying to figure out what a specific settings does just as much as actually changing it lol.

[masqdgamer]

Anyone familiar with trying to get Metal Slug Anthology on the PS2 to look nice via the framemeister? I think the interlaced nature of the title is creating some obnoxious artifacts on the vertical axis. I'm using H_Scaler and V_Scaler both set to 5 and this is a decent balance but it's definitely softer than I'd like.

Also, nice page FBX. How different are your various 480i/p console profiles? I noticed there was a width difference between those two NGC profiles and that surprised me.

it seems like its impossible to get a good picture with 480i content, at least for me anyway.
FBX's profiles are about the best we can hope for.

[FBX]

I noticed there was a width difference between those two NGC profiles and that surprised me.

If you mean vertical width, yes, it had to be done in order to reach integer 2x. No idea why 480i and 480p would require different vertical widths, but they do.

so tangentially, can you explain to me the differences between the zoom width option and the H/V width options, as well as the differences between the Zoom H/V position and visual settings H/V position options?

Trying to really get those last few tweaks to my configurations such that I'm happy with them, but as is the nature of the device, I find myself fumbling trying to figure out what a specific settings does just as much as actually changing it lol.

The Visual_Set H and V widths affect the viewable area before being sent to the Zoom functions. This is how the few masked profiles I made for the Genesis and NES work. They use Visual_Set H and V widths to stretch the image to the boundaries of the Framemeister's borders, and then the Zoom settings 'shape' the viewable area to an aspect-corrected integer scaled image.

So in the case of unmasked profiles, I usually end up having to adjust the Visual_Set V_Width value slightly (usually to 29) because the Zoom functions on their own typically do not land exactly on an integer scale. You can tell they are slightly off by turning on scanlines. If even one line is out of place or taller than the others, it's pretty blatant, and you have to try again with a different V_Width.

[lechu]

FBX, a bit off topic, but would your Power Base Converter profiles work well with an actual Master System?

And a bit on topic, how well would the Gamecube profiles work with the Wii (since the hardware is essentially the same)?

[austin532]

And a bit on topic, how well would the Gamecube profiles work with the Wii (since the hardware is essentially the same)?

I've often wondered the same thing and my guess is they should be the same.

[Guspaz]

If you haven't seen it yet, Solaris Japan has announced that they will be having a Micomsoft sale this weekend, starting Friday:

https://twitter.com/SolarisJapan/status ... 6235710465

They've confirmed that the Framemeister will be on sale.

[nissling]

Earlier this week I bought myself an LG 55EG910V and after playing some with the XRGB-Mini on it, there is really no reason for me to own a CRT for retro games (except when light guns are used of course). Man, this is a great TV (OLED puts LCD and plasma into shame) and it works perfectly well with the Framemeister.

[masqdgamer]

Earlier this week I bought myself an LG 55EG910V and after playing some with the XRGB-Mini on it, there is really no reason for me to own a CRT for retro games (except when light guns are used of course). Man, this is a great TV (OLED puts LCD and plasma into shame) and it works perfectly well with the Framemeister.

Is this the curved model? Retro games look awesome on it? Pics plz

[nissling]

It's a curved screen, but in reality it's barely noticeable. Most movie screens have been curved ever since the 50s so it's nothing new.

And yes, retro games do indeed look awesome on it. Motions are very smooth, colors are vibrant and accurate yet contrast is extremely stable. Blacks are truly black while shadow detail still is there, though certainly rather dark. Unlike plasma screens there's no dither/PWM, making it much better for graphics.

[masqdgamer]

It's a curved screen, but in reality it's barely noticeable. Most movie screens have been curved ever since the 50s so it's nothing new.

And yes, retro games do indeed look awesome on it. Motions are very smooth, colors are vibrant and accurate yet contrast is extremely stable. Blacks are truly black while shadow detail still is there, though certainly rather dark. Unlike plasma screens there's no dither/PWM, making it much better for graphics.

Sounds awesome, glad you like it!
I've been looking at getting a new TV for a while, I'll check this one out.
I have a SONY XBR55HX929 in my living room right now for "modern" gaming and an old LED in my game room connected to the Framemeister, but I've been thinking about getting a new TV for the living room and putting the SONY in my bedroom.

[nissling]

If you're based in the US the equivalent model is 55EG9100. Please note that nearly every TV in this series has some kind of vignetting in very dark grays, but as long as you keep the brightness at its proper level and don't bump up contrast too high it's generally not an issue (for third or fourth generation of consoles it's nearly non-existent). Also make sure to label the HDMI input as PC if you're using the Framemeister as it activates RGB and the signal won't be down sampled.

[masqdgamer]

cool, thanks for the tip

[nissling]

Here are some pics of it, running a 1CHIP Super Famicom through RGB to the XRGB-Mini with 4X scaling. Brings my thoughts to the BVM-20F1 but with no after burning phosphor. These images are far too dark to do the display any justice though so don't take them that serious. In reality, the shadow details are clearly there.







Did anyone mention input lag?

[blizzz]

The manual lag test is useless. It's good that you don't feel any lag, but don't post pictures of it that imply that it would be a meaningful measurement.

RetroRGB did some lag tests recently and got 1 frame delay on a CRT (RetroRGB Lag Tests). I also repeated my lag test today with a series of photos and get somewhere between 22ms and 25ms input lag on the Framemeister.

[nissling]

I know, and I've got the Leo Bodnar lag tester which is the only method that really makes sense. Measuring lag with a CRT is obsolete. Either way I don't care for lag as long as I don't notice any and for this combo I sure don't.

[Guspaz]

Manual lag tests are still reasonably useful for large amounts of lag, and while my Rockband manual lag measurements were not producing the same values as the Rockband automatic lag test (which uses an optical sensor in the guitar to detect flashes from the screen), it was off by less than a full frame. In other words, it was still a useful approximation when dealing with ~50ms of overall lag.

[NormalFish]

Manual tests always struck me as a metric of "how noticeable is this lag" rather than "how much lag is there". If you can easily compensate for the lag, then at some point it doesn't really matter how much lag there is.

[Skips]

This is a long shot but did the newest update finally fix the analog noise issue that has plagued the XRGB mini for so long? Someone mentioned to me that they think it did but I wanted to check. My XRGB Mini is stored away at the moment.

[blizzz]

This is a long shot but did the newest update finally fix the analog noise issue that has plagued the XRGB mini for so long?

Nope. I used the latest firmware version to compare it to the OSSC and the noise issue on the Framemeister was still present.

[FBX]

This is a long shot but did the newest update finally fix the analog noise issue that has plagued the XRGB mini for so long?

Nope. I used the latest firmware version to compare it to the OSSC and the noise issue on the Framemeister was still present.

Unfortunately I don't think they will ever fix the noise issue. Likely they would have done so by now. Anyway, I've got an OSSC and DVDO coming in the mail that I'm going to be doing some testing on for 1080p displays. Going to see if I can rig the combo to get integer scaling. RetroRGB already comfirmed the combo has less lag than a Framemeister, so that's already an advantage.

[IrishNinja]

Finished the first of the Gamecube pages:

http://www.firebrandx.com/gamecubeprofiles.html

Also found a couple of mistakes in the Gamecube profiles while reviewing these, so I've updated the package with the fixes. The mistakes were minor misalignment issues.

just wanted to chime in here & again thank you for the awesome profiles! love the page being setup per system, can't wait to try out your TG16 one soon.

[tusecsy]

Finished the first of the Gamecube pages:

http://www.firebrandx.com/gamecubeprofiles.html

Also found a couple of mistakes in the Gamecube profiles while reviewing these, so I've updated the package with the fixes. The mistakes were minor misalignment issues.

just wanted to chime in here & again thank you for the awesome profiles! love the page being setup per system, can't wait to try out your TG16 one soon.

give the tg4x and tg5x profiles posted a page or two back a try, some really excellent profiles for the system that probably won't get much better.

[jdawg131]

I thought that I was done pursuing good scanlines for 480p, but since I received my Toro box last week, I've been intrigued again. I just play too many 2D games from Capcom and SNK to let the issue die. I even bounced around the idea of adding a SLG3000 to my PS2/Wii setup, but (thankfully) Fudoh let me know that it wouldn't work before I spent the money and went down that road.

The 480p scanlines are very thin when setting the HDMI output to 1080p. As soon as I drop the resolution down to 720p, the scanlines are much thicker and prominent. The issue is, due to my Sony LED TV being 4K, it looks like someone smeared Vaseline all over the screen. The sharpness and clarity diminishes greatly. I have to keep my output at 1080p.

I tinkered with the scanline settings over my lunch break today, and found the following settings look "okay":

INT LINE: 66
INT SMOOTH: 82

The scanlines are subtle (maybe too subtle...) and don't darken the picture too much. They improved Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PS2) and Ocarina of Time (GC on Wii). The big issue is that the scanlines are not 100% even across the entire screen. There's a little pattern. Unfortunately, the only way that I've been able to eliminate it is by dropping the resolution to 720p. I plan on doing some more tinkering this weekend, and will compare these settings to what the Toro generates on the Dreamcast this weekend using some of my 2D fighting games.

[austin532]

Why not just play the game in 480i? You get much better looking scanlines compared to 480p which look like crap as well as a sharper image.

[Chocograph]

Dolphin 5. I KNOW, I KNOW. And I still own the framemeister. It's gooood though.

[tusecsy]

Dolphin 5. I KNOW, I KNOW. And I still own the framemeister. It's gooood though.

Dolphin is an absolutely incredible emulator, really mindblowing what it can do and how well it emulates gc/wii. The new version is running smooth as silk.

That being said, it just feels like a giant waste of time. Why bother when you can just get a wii with an HD? Or a 20$ gamecube running into the Framemeister? Lets be honest...

Would love something like this for Saturn tho.

[CkRtech]

Or a 20$ gamecube running into the Framemeister? Lets be honest...

If we are being honest - a Framemeister isn't free, and Dolphin is amazing.

[NormalFish]

Dolphin 5. I KNOW, I KNOW. And I still own the framemeister. It's gooood though.

Dolphin is an absolutely incredible emulator, really mindblowing what it can do and how well it emulates gc/wii. The new version is running smooth as silk.

That being said, it just feels like a giant waste of time. Why bother when you can just get a wii with an HD? Or a 20$ gamecube running into the Framemeister? Lets be honest...

Would love something like this for Saturn tho.

Let me know when you can get native 1080p from NGC and Wii titles with a 20$ gamecube and a framemeister.

I mean come on, man. They do vastly different things. I prefer playing on OG hardware too, but that's clearly not why people move to emulation.