Death Smiles: Countdown to North America Invasion

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bcass
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Post by bcass »

Taylor wrote:I still wager JP 360 games are locked because it simplifies part of the approval process. If so, it’s not worth the effort getting around it if their imports will be insurmountable and/or they have an international release.
I'd put money on this being the case. I remember following Jeff Minters development of his XBLA game Space Giraffe, and it was mentioned that there are rules in the approval process that state that you must translate to every language in each territory that your game is distributed in (or something along those lines).

I think that unless Cave ever agree to a budget price-point, or some sort of compilation releases in the West, the West will never see official releases of these games. Releasing a Cave game at full price in the West would be commercial suicide.
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Post by RackGaki »

cody wrote: I don't like it either. . . but if you still don't understand that cave stands to make more money from licensing their IP to a western publisher than they would from retail sales to the tens of people who are willing to import . . . PLEASE STFU
If Cave licensed games to Western publishers, you may have had a point.

@ E. Randy Dupree

Watching PS3 and PSP sales is a great exercise in the consequences of region-free consoles. For better or worse.
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Post by Jockel »

RackGaki wrote:If Cave licensed games to Western publishers, you may have had a point.
I'm looking forward to Mobile Light Force 3: Black Label xD
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bcass
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Post by bcass »

RackGaki wrote:Watching PS3 and PSP sales is a great exercise in the consequences of region-free consoles. For better or worse.
I think in those cases, the region-free element is completely unrelated. Low sales on those systems are more to do with lack of killer-apps and sub-standard 360 ports than anything else.
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Post by cody »

RackGaki wrote: If Cave licensed games to Western publishers, you may have had a point.
If cave licensed games for distribution in the west -> I have a point
Cave HAS in fact licensed games for distribution in the west (DP, Progear, Steep Slope Sliders)
: I have a point
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Post by moozooh »

cody wrote:Cave HAS in fact licensed games for distribution in the west (DP, Progear, Steep Slope Sliders)
Lol, yes, exactly. Currently, you're winning the worst-illustrating example competition.
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Post by cody »

moozooh wrote:Lol, yes, exactly. Currently, you're winning the worst-illustrating example competition.
Even taking as a given that snowboarding games suck, what do you have against DonPachi and Progear? It was 6 years or so between them, and it's now been a little longer than that since Progear. Death Smiles is another hori like Progear ( == more accessible ). Sounds like it's about time.
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Post by moozooh »

Well, DonPachi is a pretty average (note: not bad!) game even if not considering Cave's own standards. SSS wasn't even Cave's own project to begin with. Progear is great. And as you said there were 6 years between DP and Progear, and over 8 years since Progear, so that's two shmups over the course of 14 years.

That does work well as an example of how Cave licenses games to the West, but so far it can be used against your argument more than otherwise, hence my comment. They quite evidently don't care about that.
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Matskat wrote:This neighborhood USED to be nice...until that family of emulators moved in across the street....
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Post by RackGaki »

@moozooh

Cody has certainly given a valid example, just not a poignant one. The formula needs some tweaking. Selling the rights to create 27 Progear boards and even less DonPachi boards, is less than compelling. :roll:

Since arcade boards have been introduced as evidence of Cave's prolific licensing revenues, I would have to ask: who is going to purchase the rights to publish a game that is already readily available in it's current form? Even Cody joked about the tens of people willing to import Death Smiles - they've already done so with the arcade board. The arcade market is fulfilled.

Which leaves us with Cave bothering to sell the console port to someone else in a timely manner. Which I meant to address instead; thank you for correcting me cody.
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Post by GaijinPunch »

moozooh wrote:
cody wrote:Cave HAS in fact licensed games for distribution in the west (DP, Progear, Steep Slope Sliders)
Lol, yes, exactly. Currently, you're winning the worst-illustrating example competition.
Not sure about your neighborhood, but money is money in mine.
but so far it can be used against your argument
Please tell us how, master business man.
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Post by RackGaki »

GaijinPunch wrote:Please tell us how, master business man.
I'll chime in, if for no other reason than to play devil's advocate.

I agree with you that making the game region-free isn't the smartest business move. Your argument is that Cave stands to make more money selling the game to a publisher; if so, then why haven't they effectively done so in the past?

The argument is that Donpachi, Progear, especially, with their minuscule print runs as arcade boards, likely represent huge losses to the Western publisher. This decreases the chances that future publishers will take on a game from Cave. It's likely that Cave has asked for exorbitant amounts of cash for games that are likely to receive small print runs. The arcade scene was dying, and Cave likely got a fistfull of cash up front. We don't know this, because Cave has never successfully sold a game themselves to an overseas console publisher. SSS was published by Sega and co-developed with another company, so bringing that game up is a moot point.

That, or Cave has been asking very little for the publishing rights to their games, which negates the entire argument of Cave's financial prowess. If they asked for very little, otaku's wet dreams like the PS2 Ibara port would have been sold 10,000 copies in the states no problem. Maybe Cave isn't looking to expand their sales? Maybe their publisher in Japan has bought exclusive rights?

So either Cave:
1) overprices their right of distribution contracts, or
2) doesn't wish for the hassle to distribute outside of Japan any longer.
GaijinPunch wrote:Not sure about your neighborhood, but money is money in mine.
You only make money when you actually sell something, don't you? Most developers have no problems selling their games; why does Cave? It sounds to me that you are sticking up for a company that isn't as business-savvy as your 19-month old.

Though if Cave has their "eureka" moment, the 360 release of DeathSmiles would be a great time to do it.
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Post by wiNteR »

I am glad that these games will be region locked. If they aren't atleast few western gaming sites will definitely pick up and review these games. Given how ignorant western reviews of these games are, I would prefer that these games just remain region locked. We will hear the same whining about price, longevity, difficulty, shallowness, repetitive gameplay and what not. Cave "might" be aware of this fact too.

Mind you, it's not that how western sites perceive this game affects me. But alot of people take these reviews very seriously. I would prefer to introduce a Cave game to someone myself, rather than that person getting his opinion from a flawed review and never trying the game properly in the first place.
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Post by Kiken »

RackGaki wrote:The argument is that Donpachi, Progear, especially, with their minuscule print runs as arcade boards, likely represent huge losses to the Western publisher. This decreases the chances that future publishers will take on a game from Cave. It's likely that Cave has asked for exorbitant amounts of cash for games that are likely to receive small print runs. The arcade scene was dying, and Cave likely got a fistfull of cash up front. We don't know this, because Cave has never successfully sold a game themselves to an overseas console publisher. SSS was published by Sega and co-developed with another company, so bringing that game up is a moot point.
It's my understanding that Capcom own the distribution rights to Progear, not Cave. And really, no matter how small the print-run for the US might have been.... it's Capcom. I seriously doubt that they were hurting after having these boards made.

RackGaki wrote:That, or Cave has been asking very little for the publishing rights to their games, which negates the entire argument of Cave's financial prowess. If they asked for very little, otaku's wet dreams like the PS2 Ibara port would have been sold 10,000 copies in the states no problem. Maybe Cave isn't looking to expand their sales? Maybe their publisher in Japan has bought exclusive rights?
Considering that the budget re-issue of Ibara was cancelled due to a lack of interest in its home country, I doubt Taito would have bothered searching for a US distributor.
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Post by GaijinPunch »

if so, then why haven't they effectively done so in the past?
No offer.

It's not like Cave goes out hunting for a distributor, or any micro developer for that matter. It still doesn't mean they're going to burn the bridge... or at least not dent a pillar or two
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Post by hirounder »

According to Cave's blog, reservation bonus for 360 release will be dlc card for enabling full voices during scenes in 360 mode if I understand right.
Icons and DS theme coming after autumn update.

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Post by RackGaki »

That sounds good and all... but do we get it if we pre-order from, say, play-asia?

I'm definitely grabbing the theme, but only if the price is right (i.e. free).
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Post by Etrian »

RackGaki wrote:I'm definitely grabbing the theme, but only if the price is right (i.e. free).
It own't be free and I'm really sick and tired of hearing people bitch and moan about themes and gamerpics not being free. They charge them so supporters of the game can buy them and show their support. Gamerpics have never been released for free and they aren't going to start now.
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Post by brokenhalo »

Etrian wrote:
RackGaki wrote:I'm definitely grabbing the theme, but only if the price is right (i.e. free).
It own't be free and I'm really sick and tired of hearing people bitch and moan about themes and gamerpics not being free. They charge them so supporters of the game can buy them and show their support. Gamerpics have never been released for free and they aren't going to start now.
they charge for the gamerpics because they are bastards. there's no reason a few kb of art roughly the size of a postage stamp should cost $1.50. and the themes should be free as well. have you ever paid money to change the desktop background on your computer? it's just stupid and we should be complaining, or at the very least not buying it.
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Post by szycag »

Where is the money going when you buy gamerpics and themes? If it's supporting the developers or at least helping the sales figures of the game it represents, I think it's a good investment. But I always wondered how exactly that money is divided up. I felt ok about buying the Ikaruga theme when that came out... I wish I could replace that yin and yang pattern on the dash menus though, it's kinda tacky.
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Post by Elixir »

szycag wrote:Where is the money going when you buy gamerpics and themes? If it's supporting the developers or at least helping the sales figures of the game it represents, I think it's a good investment. But I always wondered how exactly that money is divided up. I felt ok about buying the Ikaruga theme when that came out... I wish I could replace that yin and yang pattern on the dash menus though, it's kinda tacky.
Uh, you can. I don't have a 360 right now so I'm just going by memory, you go into the system menu, themes menu, and you can change the guide background without having to change themes.

Although Etrian said that there's no free themes, that's not entirely ttrue. There's a few, like the Puyo Puyo Fever theme, along with free gamerpics. I just wish they owuld show you some sort of preview for themes before you rush in and buy them. Same goes with the gamerpics, where some won't display a preview. It's absolutely ridiculous that they expect you to pay for a mystery number of gamerpics that you might not even like.

But then there's gpscout, an online site which tracks all gamerpics. I think there was something like this out there for themes, but it was taken down. There's still previews online so if you do like the theme, you may as well purchase it. Same goes with gamerpics, I don't think it's very unique to use that Gears of War gamerpic that everyone else has.
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Post by GaijinPunch »

I think it's a good investment.
It's a terrible investment. If they make a mint off of these fucking pictures guess what we get as a result of the staff spending more time on pictures and not game mechanics... more pictures.
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Post by CStarFlare »

Does the same staff really do art and gameplay design?

It sounds like those are tasks that would be delegated to separate people who specialize on those areas.
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Post by RackGaki »

GaijinPunch wrote: It's a terrible investment. If they make a mint off of these fucking pictures guess what we get as a result of the staff spending more time on pictures and not game mechanics... more pictures.
I do not believe the ten minutes Treasure took to submit gamer pics is what ruined the port of Ikaruga. It was when they asked Nakagawa to take out the trash instead of letting him finish coding.

@Etrian

Sorry my comment inspired such anger, I simply pointed out the conditions on which I would choose to receive something. Others seem to agree.
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Post by antares »

RackGaki wrote: I do not believe the ten minutes Treasure took to submit gamer pics is what ruined the port of Ikaruga. It was when they asked Nakagawa to take out the trash instead of letting him finish coding.
Why do you think the port of Ikaruga was ruined?
All I know is that certain enemies and bullets are placed different but it really doesn't make such a difference unless you know the Arcade Version in your sleep.
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Post by RackGaki »

http://www.digitalmonkeybox.com/deathsm ... rrange.htm

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It's nice to see that this game will be getting a visual boost. Good deal, I say.

And no antares, I don't actually think Ikaruga was ruined.
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Post by Elixir »

Maybe they'll keep the original game in the 360 port.
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Post by RackGaki »

I don't see why they couldn't, since I doubt that having the game on there twice could take up a full DVD9.

Actually doing such a thing, though... is doubtful.
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Post by BulletMagnet »

You never know - they ought to know the type of obsessive audience they're marketing this thing to in the first place, heh heh.
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Post by Taylor »

http://cave-game.cocolog-nifty.com/blog ... -5a83.html
I can't read this myself, but I hear the HD graphics are just for the obligatory Arrange Mode, and the original game will be in its SD blocky glory. Which makes sense really, because making the game HD has more ramifications than simply making the graphics better.

For example: Ideally you wouldn't want to scale the movement of the player, enemies and bullets with the resolution because it will be jerky. It's a subtle and small change but it certainly is one.
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Post by Rai82 »

Looks like Cave is proposing 59 achievements for the Xbox 360 Deathsmiles, with a total of 1000 points. There may be 32 offline achievements with 515 gamerscore, 11 online achievements with 170 gamerscore and 16 secret achievements with 315 gamerscore. Link: http://cave-game.cocolog-nifty.com/blog ... -66d6.html
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