Xeno Fighters R (2019 GM Studio Port)

[EddyMRA]

A rough overview of a rank system proposed by Kaiser:

*Rank increases with survival time and other factors not yet decided. Maximum rank is what the current difficulty level in XF-R is.
*Medals and chains DECREASE rank. Higher values of either mean a greater reduction. However, the rank will not fall below a certain threshold (discussed later).
*The rank threshold will raise the longer the player has gone without a death. It will lower upon death, with the rank instantly falling to that threshold.
*Difficulty level selection simply sets the absolute lowest the rank threshold will go. Higher difficulty settings will have a higher absolute lowpoint for the rank threshold.

This is what Kaiser calls "Reverse Raizing Rank System." This is just a rough idea of a possible rank system. Feel free to discuss ideas to help develop this idea.

[Kaiser]

I have came up with an extenstion of this rank system. Now listen up:

* Clearing A-path stages would make the game easier and DECREASE the absolute threshold
* Clearing B-path stages is exactly opposite. The absolute threshold will increase and by the time you reach Stage 9. Deaths or chaining won't make any difference, even a minor one. It will be maxed out, a true test for shmup vets.
* Clearing EX Stages would decrease the absolute threshold HOWEVER it would still max out at stage 9. It is a reward for accessing the stages in first place (and surviving them)

I'm not doing this to say that raizing rank is bad and stuff. Actually it's opposite, while it is a great rank system. It inspired me and I managed to find a compromise in that kind of rank system. Between casuals and elite. So the game would be playable for both! I just want to bring ideas that will be fun for everyone in the end.

[S20-TBL]

Before anything else, may I ask what exactly rank would affect? I remember Alluro stating a while back that he would try to keep it as simple as bullet speeds and pattern density.

In Garegga et al I know enemy durability was more or less permanently affected by rank increases. Given that certain finer aspects of XFR are timer-based, such as the chaining, Quick Shot and Destroyed-at-a-Time bonuses, I think we can safely assume that won't be the case here or it would screw up some of the level portions (please correct me if I'm wrong here).

[Kaiser]

Before anything else, may I ask what exactly rank would affect? I remember Alluro stating a while back that he would try to keep it as simple as bullet speeds and pattern density.

In Garegga et al I know enemy durability was more or less permanently affected by rank increases. Given that certain finer aspects of XFR are timer-based, such as the chaining, Quick Shot and Destroyed-at-a-Time bonuses, I think we can safely assume that won't be the case here or it would screw up some of the level portions (please correct me if I'm wrong here).

It will only affect bullet speeds and pattern density. None of this enemy health increasing BS.

[Skyknight]

A video's already gone up for 5-A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BePn3dTrxE

Regarding the planned boss, Steel Aughisky:

* "Aughisky" is the Irish name for the Scottish each uisge (I thought Aughisky was less unwieldy), a particularly malevolent water-horse fae (the puca isn't really malicious at all, just mischievous and a trickster, and how nasty the kelpie is depends on the region. The each uisge/aughisky? ALWAYS CHAOTIC EVIL.).

* The template is the st. 4 boss in Air Gallet: http://www.vazcomics.org/mamend/png/agal0003.png

(Edited to fix my recollection of the fae horses; I thought the kelpie was the Always Chaotic Evil one.)

[EddyMRA]

Skyknight's quick. I was about to post the video here, but Skyknight beat me to it. A couple more notes about development:

*If you notice by stage 5-A's level design and enemy attacks, it is more Seibu-like, with emphasis more on enemy placement rather than bullet hell attacks. This is because I am now shifting from Cave danmaku style attacks to Seibu-like manic enemy attack patterns.

*The shift to Seibu style means more sniper enemies. I nearly got killed by a sniper tank in the stage 5-A video. Expect more manic gameplay shifts as new stages are made.

*All new stages and currently incomplete stages (3-A, 6-B, 5-C) will use the "horizontal wobble mode". Existing completed stages will be too difficult to convert to this new stage format, so those will be left alone.

[Kaiser]

I edited my rank post. Clearing tough EX stages should be rewarding, not punishing.

[EddyMRA]

Stage 3-A is finally done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuyvpHHiiEA

It includes a fully complete Jasper Gigas endboss. During the boss' intro, it will shoot at some buildings. If you can defend the buildings, you get a bonus. If you let even one building fall, you fail the objective of this stage. This stage has been revamped for the new horizontal wobble mode, making it even more challenging trying to deal with sniper enemies. The Gyaraga is so fun to use.

Also shown in this video:

Stage 9 (BRES Colony): A quick run in the second half of the stage, showing some chaining.

Stage 5-A (2003 Afghanistan): A few minor fixes from the first Stage 5-A video, including changing the SR-71's into Chinook helicopters. I take the Judge Spear on a score attack run here, getting chains and uncovering Fairies.

[Twiddle]

I'm part of the "unload on super players" school of thought.

ideally you'd want a rank system that scales multiple mechanics from one global factor simply and easily (too many crossfactors to determine rank like in Cave games = orz) and a scale with a max clamp of some sort. the player should start at around 30% of this maximum value so early deaths will provide an even lower difficulty.

I'm going to be using an example scale of 0 to 50000 (max rank). The player starts at 15000.

-Survival Time: +1 per frame. From start to finish, this is a hair under 10 minutes of only survival time to get to maximum rank.
--Survival Time Multiplier: Starts at 1x, but add an additional 1x per EX stage reached, so rank raises to full more rapidly as a result of reaching EX stages. Those playing all of the EX stages will effectively be at maximum rank past the first minute of any stage.
-Medal collection: +maximum chain*3 + total medals collected
--Example: A player who has collected 124 medals and has a maximum chain of 42 will raise their rank by 250 (42*3 + 124) on the next medal they collect.
--Example 2: A player who has collected 84 medals and has a maximum chain of 4 will raise their rank by 96 (4*3 + 84) on the next medal they collect.
-Bonus message: +50 x chain multiplier
-Miclus uncover: +1000
-Fairy collection: +500
--Fairy dropping bomb: +2000
-Objective completion: +5000
-Death: -7500
-Continuing: -35000

You should provide an incentive for having maximum rank; the best way to do this is by bonus enemy waves that have the potential to connect two stage chains.

since you're assuming what you have right now is 1x and max rank, what rank should do for regular enemies is

-Raise rate of fire
-Raise bullet speed

Not at all the same rate, though, since sniper enemies should always fire slowly but their bullet speeds should increase, and bullet spammers should not have any appreciable increase in bullet speed. The ranges could probably be:

-Sniper rate of fire: 0.8x-1.0x
-Sniper bullet speed: 0.5x-1.0x

-Spammer rate of fire: 0.4x-1.0x
-Spammer bullet speed: 0.9x-1.0x

-Regular enemy rate of fire: 0.6x-1.0x
-Regular enemy bullet speed: 0.7x-1.0x

For bosses and larger enemies, what you'd want to do is increase pattern density instead of modify rate of fire/bullet speed. You'd have to leave holes in patterns after a certain point, though.

ps. implement medal counter and extends tia

[Kaiser]

I honestly don't like this system as it feels far too counter-intuintive for casuals (remember, we have to balance it for casuals and veterans). However it's up to Alluro which system he will pick.

[EddyMRA]

One idea is to use one system for an easier difficulty setting and another for a harder difficulty, though implementing two different rank systems could prove to be overwhelming.

[Kaiser]

One idea is to use one system for an easier difficulty setting and another for a harder difficulty, though implementing two different rank systems could prove to be overwhelming.

It is a good idea but the question is, would you be able to handle it? (You could use mine system for the easier difficulty and Twiddle's, for the harder one) Considering XF-R would turn into a mess code-wise.

[S20-TBL]

I think XF-R should stick to one rank system, for simplicity and efficiency. Perhaps tweak the numbers for different difficulties (which isn't that hard to do compared to adding in the second method), but it would still be a single, universal system instead of having two distinct rank calculation methods.

[EddyMRA]

I think XF-R should stick to one rank system, for simplicity and efficiency. Perhaps tweak the numbers for different difficulties (which isn't that hard to do compared to adding in the second method), but it would still be a single, universal system instead of having two distinct rank calculation methods.

After much consideration, I will stick to Kaiser's method. In the end, Stage 9 will still remain as difficult as it's shown to be so far in the videos.

Speaking of videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erur778Bd2o

The Gyaraga ship has been given its own unique clone. It's the ship from an even older arcade game: Phoenix. This ancient game was made by Amstar in 1980 and licensed to Taito for Japanese distribution.

The ship in Phoenix did not have a name originally, so I decided to give it a name. Since the Phoenix is a creature in Greek mythology (as well as other cultures), the name of the ship in Xeno Fighters R is Hoplon.

A Hoplon is a deeply dished shield used by Greek infantry (AKA Hoplites) in various periods of history. It fit well with the Phoenix ship's most well-known feature: its barrier special attack.

While the Hoplon is basically a skinned Gyaraga with skinned weapons, its primary difference is that it uses exclusively retro sprites. The ship even has the weird animation from the original game when moving side to side. I don't know if the ship is spinning or flapping its wings or whatever. A couple of friends told me it looks like a space gecko.

With the retro Phoenix arcade sounds, it is an interesting culture shock to play a retro arcade shmup ship in a fairly modern manic shmup game.

[BPzeBanshee]

I was going to suggest that we use Twiddle's specifics with Kaiser's overall system, but then Alluro beat me to it. I personally think scoring in XF-R should be rewarding as its been implied right from the XFEX days rather than punishing or throwing the kitchen sink like Battle Bakraid.

As it actually happens, I got my copy of Taito Legends for PC working some time ago and spotted Phoenix with its weird motion and gameplay. It really only just clicked to me that the bomber from XF-R and Phoenix were one and the same. Its a small world.

Also, once the rank system gets implemented, can we get a rank variable display option that can be switched on/off in the Options Menu (like the cheat in GareMAME for the same thing)? I think it could be good for people to have so that they notice at what rank level they start having difficulty surviving and practice accordingly. Even just something like Batrider's stage select would be nice, but I imagine that wouldnt be as trivial as a variable display.

[EddyMRA]

I was going to suggest that we use Twiddle's specifics with Kaiser's overall system, but then Alluro beat me to it. I personally think scoring in XF-R should be rewarding as its been implied right from the XFEX days rather than punishing or throwing the kitchen sink like Battle Bakraid.

As it actually happens, I got my copy of Taito Legends for PC working some time ago and spotted Phoenix with its weird motion and gameplay. It really only just clicked to me that the bomber from XF-R and Phoenix were one and the same. Its a small world.

Also, once the rank system gets implemented, can we get a rank variable display option that can be switched on/off in the Options Menu (like the cheat in GareMAME for the same thing)? I think it could be good for people to have so that they notice at what rank level they start having difficulty surviving and practice accordingly. Even just something like Batrider's stage select would be nice, but I imagine that wouldnt be as trivial as a variable display.

Batrider's stage edit mode can be another type of game mode to go with Arcade, Conquest Mode, and Boss Rush. Stage Edit can replace the planned separate modes for All-A mode, All-B mode, All-EX mode, and so on.

And yes, I will put in a rank display option too. I want to see where my rank is as well during gameplay instead of finding out the hard way.

[BPzeBanshee]

By Stage Select I was actually referring to Special Mode where you could select any boss or stage and it would play said stage for you twice - first on easiest rank and then on hardest, so you could practice that specific part on those difficulties so you could better adjust to the difficulty when you do a proper run. This is how I learnt to beat Sobut in Batrider in my sleep.
Now that you mention it though, that is a good idea. It's precisely what one could use to avoid a certain stage while still getting whatever bonus a mission complete would provide, just like avoiding the impossible Envy in Batrider.

[EddyMRA]

By Stage Select I was actually referring to Special Mode where you could select any boss or stage and it would play said stage for you twice - first on easiest rank and then on hardest, so you could practice that specific part on those difficulties so you could better adjust to the difficulty when you do a proper run.

That can be a new kind of Conquest Mode there. That or give the option to choose between rock-bottom rank and maximum rank before starting the stage proper in Conquest mode.

[throne_of_wolves]

I've just finished playing Xeno Fighters R for the first time and I'm completely blown away by how polished it feels, even though it's only in beta. Congrats to all involved, this is going to be epic when its finished.

[S20-TBL]

Random question. I've been meaning to ask this but it might sound a bit nitpicky in terms of detail, so I apologize in advance...anyway, here goes.

Will Micluses and Fairies decrease rank or increase it?

The way I see it, getting them presents a hefty risk-reward scenario in and of itself--for a Miclus the player needs to sit in one spot for a second and a half before it's exposed, leaving them vulnerable to enemy fire. However, given that medals and chains decrease rank and the Miclus actually adds to both, this might be too forgiving.

On the other hand, Fairies are tough to uncover, requiring the player to (for example) perform chains of a certain amount, which means allowing potentially lethal enemies to survive for a bit longer than one would normally allow them to--for example, the second Fairy attempt in 3-B. It would be a great reward to entice beginner-intermediate players to hunt down those bonuses more actively.

EDIT: removed the second question, it's already been answered in an earlier post.

[EddyMRA]

Random question. I've been meaning to ask this but it might sound a bit nitpicky in terms of detail, so I apologize in advance...anyway, here goes.

Will Micluses and Fairies decrease rank or increase it?

The way I see it, getting them presents a hefty risk-reward scenario in and of itself--for a Miclus the player needs to sit in one spot for a second and a half before it's exposed, leaving them vulnerable to enemy fire. However, given that medals and chains decrease rank and the Miclus actually adds to both, this might be too forgiving.

On the other hand, Fairies are tough to uncover, requiring the player to (for example) perform chains of a certain amount, which means allowing potentially lethal enemies to survive for a bit longer than one would normally allow them to--for example, the second Fairy attempt in 3-B. It would be a great reward to entice beginner-intermediate players to hunt down those bonuses more actively.

You bring up some good points. We have not decided how Micluses and Fairies will affect rank yet, but your observations are a good base.

Going off the rank modification values proposed by Twiddle, where 50000 denotes maximum rank, and tweaking them to fit into Kaiser's system, here's a proposed rank modification table by different factors:

The following INCREASE rank:
-Survival Time: +(1 * survival multiplier) per frame. From start to finish, rank increase at strictly 1x rate is a hair under 10 minutes of only survival time to get to maximum rank.
--Survival Multiplier: Initially 1x, but increases by 2 when reaching a B stage, while decreasing by 1 when reaching an A-stage or EX-stage. Rate does not change reaching stage 2. Will not fall below 1x rate, maximum rate likely capped at 10x. This means staying on an all-A-stage path will keep the survival multiplier rate at 1x.
--Examples:
---1>2>3-A = 1x rate
---1>2>3-B = 3x rate
---1>2>3-B>EX-1 = 2x rate
---1>2>3-B>4-B = 5x rate
---1>2>3-B>EX-1>4-B: 4x rate
---1>2>3-A>4-B>5-A: 2x rate
-Discovered the Miclus: +2500
-Fairy collection: +500
-Fairy dropping bomb: +3000 (For sacrificing score multiplier on Fairy pickup and gaining a Bomber)
-Objective completion: +5000
-B-stage completion (objective pass or fail): +7500 (RAISES RANK THRESHOLD)

The following DECREASE rank:
-Medal collection: minus # total medals collected in a given stage * 2
--Example: A player who has collected 45 medals in a given stage will lower their rank by 90 on the next medal they collect.
-Chaining: -15 x chain multiplier
-Discovered the Fairy: -2500 (effectively cancels out the Miclus discovery rank increase. This encourages beginner to intermediate players to hunt down Fairies more actively in order to manage rank, especially during a chain that includes discovering Micluses. With Fairies being tough to uncover in the first place, higher-skilled players who forego the Fairies will be treated to a higher rank, and even if expert players do uncover fairies, collecting them or letting them drop a Bomb will raise the rank right back up).
-EX-stage completion: -4000 (Offers a brief respite from the brutal EX stages upon completion in the next stage)
-Objective fail: -5000
-A-stage completion (objective pass or fail): -7500 (LOWERS RANK THRESHOLD)
-Death: -7500 (LOWERS RANK THRESHOLD)
-Continuing: -35000 (LOWERS RANK THRESHOLD)

*Note that none of these factors will decrease rank in Stage 9; once rank reaches maximum here, it will stay at maximum.

EDIT: EX stage completion no longer lowers rank lower bound

[Kaiser]

I have no objections on your decision, you combined the best from mine and twiddle's ideas. So it sounds pretty much, ideal.

[S20-TBL]

-Medal collection: minus # total medals collected in a given stage * 2
--Example: A player who has collected 45 medals in a given stage will lower their rank by 90 on the next medal they collect.

To clarify, does this mean that each medal the player collects in a single stage decreases rank according the the current total # of medals collected for that stage, multiplied by 2 (barring the most current one collected, which would mean that the first medal in a level actually doesn't affect the rank)?

If so, I think this is quite fair. In summary the bulk of rank controlling (assuming the player wants a 1CC and not exactly a no-miss clear) will be due to medal collecting*, augmented by possible or deliberate deaths, EX bonuses, A stage clears and Fairy discoveries. On a more perfect run, A Stage clears and objective failures would be discounted, speeding up rank increases to match more experienced hands.


*I did a number crunch of Stage 1 using the calculations provided, and barring an extra Fairy, the player gets roughly 10,800 rank at the end of the level, with most of the bulk shaved off by the medals. This means that stages with less medals will make things more dangerous, though on the flip side I can see the value of unlocking the EX stages more clearly--those levels are brimming with medals.

[EddyMRA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZx15d03lBk

Xeno Fighters R is coming along at a quick pace. Stage 6-B is practically done. All that's left is the boss of this stage.

This video also demonstrates the further improved Raiden mk-II plasma laser algorithm, where it locks on to multiple enemies more efficiently.

[emphatic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZx15d03lBk

Xeno Fighters R is coming along at a quick pace. Stage 6-B is practically done. All that's left is the boss of this stage.

This video also demonstrates the further improved Raiden mk-II plasma laser algorithm, where it locks on to multiple enemies more efficiently.

That looks great!

[Twiddle]

For Kaiser's method, I don't agree with EX stages decreasing lower bound threshold; if anything, they should be neutral and have no inherent effect on it (since you can potentially reach them either from A or B.)

This way, EX stages for A players will still be a boon to rank control due to chains and medals, but won't compromise the idea of increasing rank for B players. I think the lower bound becoming maximum should be reached by completing all of the B stages (or defeating EX-6, the details of which are still secret.)

[EddyMRA]

For Kaiser's method, I don't agree with EX stages decreasing lower bound threshold; if anything, they should be neutral and have no inherent effect on it (since you can potentially reach them either from A or B.)

According to http://www.DrawAnywhere.com/live/56b142178c51b.jpg EX stages cannot be reached directly from an A stage, only from B stages. Though, having EX stage completion not affect the lower bound is something to consider.

[Twiddle]

Oh, derp. I forgot about that.

Yeah, EX stages not affecting the lower bound would be the best way to go about it, as the criteria for getting them involves raising lower bound rank anyway, and can potentially make the game easier than those who play B stages without triggering EX stages.

[BPzeBanshee]

Oh, derp. I forgot about that.

Yeah, EX stages not affecting the lower bound would be the best way to go about it, as the criteria for getting them involves raising lower bound rank anyway, and can potentially make the game easier than those who play B stages without triggering EX stages.

Well the idea is to promote the user to actually try and get to these EX stages, and not doing this (if I read you right) will make the game harder quicker, making the person go "Well why is this suddenly getting harder? Oh, I should try getting to these EX stages and my run will be more smooth". At the same time, since there is lots of medals in EX stages anyway nondiscriminating the EX stages from the normal ones could work and still give the same effect anyway.

[EddyMRA]

Allowing rank management by going to EX stages is an ingenious idea. Given that it is possible for a run to include all six EX stages for a stage path of 1>2>3-B>EX-1>4-B>EX-2>5-B>EX-3>6-B>EX-4>7-B>EX-5>8>EX-6>9, having rank shoot up to maximum only one-fifth of the way through this path will be torture. Conversely, an all-B path will be shorter, but rank will reach maximum very quickly to test even the most veteran shmupper.