Ibara port's graphics

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:33 pm

The monitor I'm currently using has very weak horizontal width control, which makes it frustrating as all hell to choose between a high score and a bomb/sheild counter.

That will soon change with the purchase of a few 29" babies and some decent width controls.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:51 pm

elvis wrote:The monitor I'm currently using has very weak horizontal width control, which makes it frustrating as all hell to choose between a high score and a bomb/sheild counter.

I've managed to develop a happy mixture of half the score and just a sliver of the bomb bar visible at the bottom in galuda.

Unfortunately, when you go back to mushi it makes it look like a turd in comparison.

Bit of a double edged sword...

jormungand · Post by **jormungand** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:02 am

Is there anywhere a person can buy large rgb monitors anymore? I have been looking around for one that has an outer case like a tv, and the only ones I have found are made by hantarex. www.hantarex.com but it seems that no one in the states deals them. Which is bad, because they have some seriously large monitors.

As for the ports graphics, in tate mode it looks pretty great..in yoko, it's basically like asking for a mild migraine.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:00 am

jormungand wrote:Is there anywhere a person can buy large rgb monitors anymore? I have been looking around for one that has an outer case like a tv, and the only ones I have found are made by hantarex. www.hantarex.com but it seems that no one in the states deals them. Which is bad, because they have some seriously large monitors.

As for the ports graphics, in tate mode it looks pretty great..in yoko, it's basically like asking for a mild migraine.

Wells Gardner and Betson (ie: Kortek) still sell new units. Happ controls have several models of low-res RGB monitors on their site.

Otherwise you can find them inside cabinets.

Find a reseller of candy cabs near you and ask if they'll sell you a monitor separately, or bite the bullet and get the whole cab.

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:22 pm

so, in normal noob friendly terms, it looks not quite as good as DOJ, but not quite as crap as mushi? i can deal with it then, i find the gunbird ps2 pack, altho filtered/scaled/fake low res/whatever decent looking and 100% playable, but mushi really looks crap, and makes my eyes sore, so if its as bad as mushi im not buying it, but if it's still ok, then i probably will (not right now tho)

Post by **Dave_K.** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:46 pm

Side by side comparison: the filter/blur is quite noticeable on the PS2 port (left). Wether or not this effects gameplay is debateable, but it definately does not help when you are already trying to track to many projectiles. There was also less slowdown in the PS2 port, again not helping things any. Other than that, the practice and arrange modes make this worth owning (along with the PCB

).

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:54 am

Dave_K, have you got any higher res photos linked somewhere? Or if not, can you throw a few more up here?

agony · Post by **agony** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:04 am

am I blind?

those 2 pictures look just the same for me o_O

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:08 am

agony wrote:am I blind?

those 2 pictures look just the same for me o_O

Yeah they look pretty similar to me too. Honestly I couldn't tell you which one has the 'filter' in those pics. All I know is the PS2 port looks great on a TATE-ed TV, so I'm happy.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:21 am

agony wrote:am I blind?

those 2 pictures look just the same for me o_O

a) the pictures are fairly low-res and from a distance. You won't see much from them unless we get some more up close (hence why I asked for more photos)

b) Check the "Cave" text down the bottom of the left cab compared to the text on the right cab, and notice the filtering around the edges.

You'll see it better if Dave_K (or anyone else with both on identical machines) is kind enough to supply some nice closeup hi res direct comparison shots.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:30 am

Dave, any notes on the colors or bullet visiblity between the two?

DirtyMonk · Post by **DirtyMonk** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:59 am

agony wrote:am I blind?

those 2 pictures look just the same for me o_O

Trust me, if you were there, the PCB one would be like wearing a better pair of glasses. Everything just looks more crisp.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:15 am

Can someone please...for the love of God...post the Good the Bad and the Ugly in terms of a Graphics Output FAQ, and how to set each one up and something along the lines of Quality vs. How expensive something is...

I'm a moronic n00b about this stuff, but I know Godly Graphics when I see it.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:33 am

Very preliminary version of a little website on the topic I've done:

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

I'm currently into finetuning the 480i > 240p conversion to play games like Ibara in 15kHz progressive mode with scanlines. It looks very nice so far and more details will be up within the next few weeks.

Thanks
Fudoh

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:06 am

Just read your article - excellent stuff!

To bad it ended at the most interesting part.

I'll be waiting to find out all about these scan converters.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:46 am

elvis wrote:
agony wrote:am I blind?

those 2 pictures look just the same for me o_O
a) the pictures are fairly low-res and from a distance. You won't see much from them unless we get some more up close (hence why I asked for more photos)

b) Check the "Cave" text down the bottom of the left cab compared to the text on the right cab, and notice the filtering around the edges.

You'll see it better if Dave_K (or anyone else with both on identical machines) is kind enough to supply some nice closeup hi res direct comparison shots.

I did try to take some close up pics, but they were blurry because of the low light conditions, and no flash (with flash and you almost can't see anything). I'll have to try again. What I'd really need is an RGB capture device like what Zak has.

Jedah Doma · Post by **Jedah Doma** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:49 am

elvis wrote:
SAM wrote:And as I said before it's image is clear and sharp on a TV and burr on a RGB monitor.

SAM wrote:Yes, I means component, those you got from a DVD player.

BTW, Monster's cable does give clearer image than the Sony's one.
Well, coincidentally I just ordered some component cables for my PS2 a few days back. So I'll have a chance to compare my 26" old RGB monitor at home to the 29" new RGB monitors in the shop to my 31" low-def component CRT TV at home.

80cm (31") CRT TVs are getting so stupidly cheap here in AU at the moment (around AU$400 or US$300) and they all come with component. At that price I'm damn tempted to buy one and decase/tate it to use for a dedicated console shmup setup!

Yeah... derailing thread even further. I won't be getting Ibara for at least another fortnight (not allowed any more purchases until after my birthday, the missus has ordered). Not liking this waiting business!

You know, I've used the Monster component cables for PS2, then the normal Sony brand component cables, and then bought some Sony s-video cables, and you know what, the -s-video looked better with most of my games (especially 2-D games).

Here's the thing while component has better and richer color, I noticed a certian crispness with the s-video on sprite based games. I tried all three cable with various game (Metal Slug 4/5, Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou, KOF, etc.) and the s-video had a sharper image and clearer pixel.

Plus my Monster cables went crap on me. Yea, all my other Monster cable is nice and thick, but the actual inside of the cables was very thin and cheaply constructed. I was very dissapointed. Mind you all results are on a nice Sony "32 flat screen TV with no high def options.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:49 am

agony wrote:am I blind?

those 2 pictures look just the same for me o_O

Sorry, guess I should have started with "you won't notice it from this distance but..." But, if you look at the planes in the upper/background, they are much more defined on the PCB (right) right that the PS2 port (left). I'll try to take some closer pictures, but I have a feeling they are both going to come out blurry with my camera.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:00 am

Valgar wrote:Dave, any notes on the colors or bullet visiblity between the two?

Colors are the same, visability is slightly different because of the filter/blur on the port. As DirtyMonk said, its like putting on a pair of glasses playing the PCB.

It doesn't help, but I don't think its a big hinderance.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:08 am

Fudoh wrote:Very preliminary version of a little website on the topic I've done:

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

I'm currently into finetuning the 480i > 240p conversion to play games like Ibara in 15kHz progressive mode with scanlines. It looks very nice so far and more details will be up within the next few weeks.

Thanks
Fudoh

Nice article! Looking forward to seeing your ibara pictures using this type of scanline conversion.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:28 am

From the other thread:

Dave_K. wrote:
Neon wrote: Graphics are fucking GREAT - the filter is slight and scaling only noticeable on the bullets really (playing on commodore RGB monitor). Really a nice blur:scale ratio, looks almost low res (all the purists are dying inside reading this, but seriously, don't bother with the PCB).
I had a room full of people at the san jose shmupmeet who would disagree with you. Mind you, for what its worth, the port is still fantastic, just not as perfect as the Arika ones.

Disagree with me to the point that they'd buy the PCB? I just don't see why you wouldn't keep one or the other at this point [excluding your case], given that the graphical differences are so minor. PS2 has extra modes and crap so I'm going with that one saving $340.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:36 am

Neon wrote:From the other thread:

Dave_K. wrote:
Neon wrote: Graphics are fucking GREAT - the filter is slight and scaling only noticeable on the bullets really (playing on commodore RGB monitor). Really a nice blur:scale ratio, looks almost low res (all the purists are dying inside reading this, but seriously, don't bother with the PCB).
I had a room full of people at the san jose shmupmeet who would disagree with you. Mind you, for what its worth, the port is still fantastic, just not as perfect as the Arika ones.
Disagree with me to the point that they'd buy the PCB? I just don't see why you wouldn't keep one or the other at this point [excluding your case], given that the graphical differences are so minor. PS2 has extra modes and crap so I'm going with that one saving $340.

Of course not. I buy the PCB because I'm a COLLECTOR. I also have DDPDOJ and ESPGaluda PCBs, and those indeed have perfect PS2 ports (which I've reported on previously). If you can afford the PCB you can certainly afford the ibara port with nice extras....not the other way around.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:40 am

Fudoh wrote:Very preliminary version of a little website on the topic I've done:

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

I'm currently into finetuning the 480i > 240p conversion to play games like Ibara in 15kHz progressive mode with scanlines. It looks very nice so far and more details will be up within the next few weeks.

Thanks
Fudoh

Good article, well done. Glad someone took the time to write a user-friendly version for the masses.

Jedah Doma · Post by **Jedah Doma** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:48 am

Here's a quick shot of the Monster componenet cables:

First an outside shot of the cables. They looks pretty nice and slick, but then we get a closer look.

Alright, now to just the actual connections. Things are still looking quality enough, but then screw off the cover and you get.....

TAD-DA!!! A complete disaster inside. I've works around cables all my life (from video games to being a musician) and I would have to say this is just sad. After all this thick bulky cable that lures you into thinking "Wow, another quailty Monster product", you were wrong. This is the thing, the only thing bringing your signal from the back of your PS2 to the actual TV/Reciever is a thin copper piece of wire. That's right, about 5-6 strands of copper compose the connection you see below. Out of that white covering/jacket is said copper cable that is soldered into the metal piece inside. So, any bump or bend will mess with that conection.

Two of the connections on these cables came unfastened from the soldering just months after I purchased them and now won't work (even after many attempts to solder them back). I've never had this problem with any cable (even crappy off brand stuff). Hell, I take care of all my cables/equipment very well and haven't had this happen before. So after spending a good chunk of my change, I went to get the Sony brand component cables and have been more then happy. I got the same quality picture, but better quailty construction for a lot less money.

Do not buy Monster game cables. Do buy Monster A/V cables and power supplies for your home theater, but stay away from the cheaply made game cables. Sorry about the crappy picture quality, but it was late and my camera phone was the only thing near.

sammaza · Post by **sammaza** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:08 am

Hey Dave K. ...DDPDOJ have tate mode?...I removed it from my ps2 hdd because It didnt look right on my tate'd neocandy 29

it290 · Post by **it290** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:48 am

Very preliminary version of a little website on the topic I've done:

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

Nice website, but you left off at the end without mentioning what type of scan converter it is that you're getting these results with. Care to elaborate?

Post by **Dave_K.** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:21 am

sammaza wrote:Hey Dave K. ...DDPDOJ have tate mode?...I removed it from my ps2 hdd because It didnt look right on my tate'd neocandy 29

Arika, bless their hearts, gave us 2 non-interlaced tate modes, regular tate (full screen), tate hosei - slightly squished pixel aspect so you could see all the lines on a normal NTSC tated tv. There is also a 16:9 aspect mode, but its really for widescreen TVs in hori mode, to adjust for the stretching of pixels.

sammaza · Post by **sammaza** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:10 am

oh yeah...I am thinking of Gigawings generations...the ps2 port didnt have tate...such a shame

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:03 am

Nice website, but you left off at the end without mentioning what type of scan converter it is that you're getting these results with. Care to elaborate?

I got the idea when using a Kramer electronics scan converter a friend has installed in his studio. The Kramer converters are extremely hard to find though.

I've since then checked several units for this feature and there's a mid 90s to late 90s Extron series of converters which do the trick. Problem is some of the units needed to be modified to get a clear picture while other don't seem to need the extra work.

I'll sort this out once I find the time. One unit I tried lately which does the magic without any modification was an Extron Super Emotia II GX (once a $5000 machine, now MUCH cheaper if you can find one).

If you intend to go for some of those machines yourself, you need to watch out for a two points: the machine you want to use must feature a 240 lines progressive output (The Extron machines for example dropped this features somewhere in the VSC line of units, the VSC200 does NOT have it, no idea about the earlier VSC units) and it has to use RGBS output. You don't want to go with S-Video and you can't really use RGBHV for any 15kHz TVs or CGA arcade monitors.

Fudoh

SuperPang · Post by **SuperPang** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:30 am

Dave_K, that a Windy 2? Are they JVS only? What's the monitor like?