Embracer buys Tatsujin aka Torplan back catalog

[Bassa-Bassa]

In terms of emulation accuracy it generally means every bit of every cycle is identical to the original hardware and software from power-on. Even better if there is electronic level accuracy than simply emulating a cpu.

Sure. What I tried to explain is that when we ask for accuracy we're concerned about slowdowns, visual and audio fidelity and lag, not about if the self-test screen is there.

If you want to look at it that way, the M2 ShotTriggers games aren't accurate anyway, as they have all sorts of things that are different from the arcade releases, like changing bosses to make them time out when they originally didn't and bug fixes and whatever else they have added/changed/improved.

I thought M2 were so well regarded precisely because they always let you pick between an accurate version or a "fixed" one.

Oh yeah, improved... they have lower input lag than the arcade versions, as well, although you can turn that off for whatever reason. Not sure why you'd ever want more input lag, unless you've played a game so many times that you can tell the difference between 2 frames of lag and 3 frames of lag and having 2 frames messes you up or something.

They added a lower latency option (when possible) to compensate the added (1-frame) lag any average persion will at least get with his display, controller, etc. The people with optimal hardware (not many, I bet) should disable the option if they want to keep accuracy.

[Steven]

I thought M2 were so well regarded precisely because they always let you pick between an accurate version or a "fixed" one.

They don't. See the fixed version of Thunder Force IV on Switch, in which it's no longer possible to milk certain projectiles (infinitely on Mega Drive and Saturn? I don't know) and there is no option to reactivate the score for those projectiles.

They added a lower latency option (when possible) to compensate the added (1-frame) lag any average persion will at least get with his display, controller, etc. The people with optimal hardware (not many, I bet) should disable the option if they want to keep accuracy.

Less lag = better. Fuck accuracy in that case. I am using a monitor with 8.8ms of lag, so I am very much on par with a CRT, but there is absolutely no benefit to playing with more lag when I can have less.

[Sumez]

I can't think of any Toaplan game that benefits from accurate slowdown.
The only reason I'd want that is to have a scoring field truly comparable to playing on an arcade pcb. And I doubt that would happen anyway. If you're doing the WR you do it on PCB. The rest of us score just to challenge ourselves.

[Rastan78]

If you're doing the WR you do it on PCB.

Idk world records are being done on Switch and PS4 in some cases now. There was a new Garegga record on the PS4 version just the other day. Even if JHA doesn't list those scores I think other players will still respect them for the most part. And Western players will never be able to submit scores to JHA anyway. I'm sure Japanese players know about Moglar's PS4 Ketsui score.

I've gotten a couple console scores around 98 or 99% WR and never once felt like well its about time to buy a cab and track down a PCB so I can prove something to the world.

If anything I feel like I'm more directly competing with other global players via M2 port leaderboards than another way. The current WR holder plays on the same platform, so they would be highly likely to see my score and replay in the (relatively unlikely ) event I actually broke a record on console.

So yeah if I went through the hoops of getting back into PCBs, setting up my weird autofire setup with physical circuits which I would have to hand solder probably, set up direct capture to record replays from PCB, then I'd be less likely to have my score seen by top players?

When Moglar got a WR all I saw was people going wow that's amazing congrats. Not one person was saying nice try bro. Now shell out for a Ketsui PCB and try again if you want anyone to care.

[Sengoku Strider]

Incidentally, does anyone know if the lag in Mega Drive Same!³ has been measured? I was playing it the other day and kinda wondering whether its response was slow or if it was just my imagination. After coming off Darius MD it felt a bit sluggish and the plane far less agile. I often feel like if my initial read on a bullet's trajectory is off then I'm toast, there's no time to course-correct. I guess it doesn't help that it appears to have a fairly large hit box as well. Micro-dodging most always seems like a risk not worth taking here.

[Sumez]

Even if JHA doesn't list those scores I think other players will still respect them for the most part.
(...)
When Moglar got a WR all I saw was people going wow that's amazing congrats. Not one person was saying nice try bro. Now shell out for a Ketsui PCB and try again if you want anyone to care.

That was actually kind of the point I was trying to make. On a purely "competitive" level a port playthrough will never be considered 100% identical to a PCB playthrough (even when it is), but skilled players will play the ports all the same!
I doubt there's any ports of CV1000 games that have 100% perfect slowdown replication (even if a couple came close), but people cherish them anyway. Because they are really good.

So in summary, why care about replicating the slowdown in Out Zone? It's not Mushihimesama.

[Carl-Henrik]

If you want to look at it that way, the M2 ShotTriggers games aren't accurate anyway, as they have all sorts of things that are different from the arcade releases, like changing bosses to make them time out when they originally didn't and bug fixes and whatever else they have added/changed/improved. Oh yeah, improved... they have lower input lag than the arcade versions, as well, although you can turn that off for whatever reason. Not sure why you'd ever want more input lag, unless you've played a game so many times that you can tell the difference between 2 frames of lag and 3 frames of lag and having 2 frames messes you up or something.

I was mostly comparing the focus of MAME vs. dedicated ports, like the ports I'm doing and I feel that M2 has done a great job of making the games feel at home on the consoles they have released it for. I've only seen one person ask for a remake rather than emulation based porting which would take it a big step away from the emulation-accuracy!

[heli]

They should give a no slowdown option.

I was buying PS3/PS4 games to find out there is still slowdown on old games,
they could have fixed it, i can not win with slowdown either so i better have no slowdown.
And dont forget to add 3D graphics like R-Type Dimensions Ex on PS4.
Then i pay you €30,- "inflation and shipping included"

In fb-neo you can set CPU to 400%, only the music in games like batsugun will be 4 times faster also.

[Bassa-Bassa]

That was actually kind of the point I was trying to make. On a purely "competitive" level a port playthrough will never be considered 100% identical to a PCB playthrough (even when it is), but skilled players will play the ports all the same!

"Competitive" fortunately doesn't mean just the scene that "officializes" world records. If I want to compete with a friend of mine who uses his PCB and only his PCB, we can't make proper comparisons if the slowdowns or the latency (audio latency is usually ignored, but it affects your play much like input lag) aren't the same. Just an example of many. On the other hand, I think it's utterly important that Mame is not the only preservation tool there, if only because it's wrong in so many instances (apparently not so much in Toaplan games, but the point is still valid). And without emulation accuracy, be it Mushihime, be it Out Zone, preservation (which includes documentation) isn't complete. Even if lately they're making fixes without the option to disable them (I guess that's only if it's not their first release of the game?), M2 was celebrated for their accuracy efforts after those years where every other developer not named Rutubo couldn't provide us with accurate ports of old games. Fixes and extras came later and usually as an option.

[Rastan78]

Minor stuff that M2 and Hamster will almost always change are things that would bring copyright claims (the Ferrari in OutRun, Marilyn Monroe and Spider Man in Shinobi etc) or things that could cause epileptic seizures (like the rapid flashing screen effect on Darius Gaiden's bomb removed). I wish the flashing screen stuff had a toggle, but maybe they can't get that through certification?

[gray117]

Interesting. Embracer group has been largely a stabilising force for many developers, and it's interesting to see them identify this niche. Much has been made about how and where they have recently found some of their investment recently, but honestly their operations and wider strategy remain far more interesting and relevant, and honestly I think has really enlivened investment across the industry. Whilst some of the more cautious (such as myself) may fear another interplay there has been little indication (despite recent loses) so far that they have mismanaged their strategy or financial expectations - which is no mean feat.

...

The legitimacy of the world records are generally unimpeachable, but the relevance of this naturally declines over time; especially if access is limited. These re-releases generate much more are excitement and relevance for the games themselves... And with that comes the community, and with that the competition.

The scene that fails to adapt to this will loose out on what could a 'peak' for some of these titles that will not be repeated for a long time - if ever - no matter how legitimate or long lasting the original may be. These are generally good versions of good games; they've just been made more relevant, accessible and desirable.

It barely matters which is official; as long as the experience isn't undermined - which is generally why the issue with port lag remains probably the most significant issue even over accuracy.

And increased accessibility can come in several forms - including options, bug fixes, visual niceties, save states, rewinds, training modes, documentation. This may not make for perfect ports, this may even not work sometimes, but the intent will be that it makes these games more rewarding and relevant to the player than they have been. This may not outlast the original, or even eclipse it as such - but it could make it the most relevant official version.

[Manualmartin]

Of course there is a commercial aspect, I would be lying if I said there isn't. However, part of it is more passion driven and smaller requirement on return on investment. Retro and classic games have an awareness that offsets the risk versus introducing a new game. If we would only go for maximum profit then all investments would be in the mobile and free-to-play space.

The challenge besides a proper treatment and respect for the heritage, is meeting player expectations. I think it's even trickier with remakes and sequels. We've seen Streets of Rage 4, Sol Cresta, various Wonderboys etc. Some love it and some, maybe don't hate it, but definitively not living up to their interpretation or wish for what the game would be in a modern version.

[Steven]

If you want to look at it that way, the M2 ShotTriggers games aren't accurate anyway, as they have all sorts of things that are different from the arcade releases, like changing bosses to make them time out when they originally didn't and bug fixes and whatever else they have added/changed/improved. Oh yeah, improved... they have lower input lag than the arcade versions, as well, although you can turn that off for whatever reason. Not sure why you'd ever want more input lag, unless you've played a game so many times that you can tell the difference between 2 frames of lag and 3 frames of lag and having 2 frames messes you up or something.

I was mostly comparing the focus of MAME vs. dedicated ports, like the ports I'm doing and I feel that M2 has done a great job of making the games feel at home on the consoles they have released it for. I've only seen one person ask for a remake rather than emulation based porting which would take it a big step away from the emulation-accuracy!

This reminds me of a certain Toaplan remake. Have you played Snow Bros Special yet?

Please don't tell Yuge-san or anyone else at Tatsujin (unless they share my feelings, in which case I don't really mind lol), but it's, uh... well, Snow Bros isn't really my type of game to begin with, but setting that aside, I don't particularly feel the stage design or balance in the new stages is particularly great. I played it both in single player alone and then later with a friend of mine who absolutely LOVES Toaplan and we were both like "...uh, yeah, that was a game. It... exists. Yeah. Probably never playing it again...".

[Tim James]

The challenge besides a proper treatment and respect for the heritage, is meeting player expectations. I think it's even trickier with remakes and sequels. We've seen Streets of Rage 4, Sol Cresta, various Wonderboys etc. Some love it and some, maybe don't hate it, but definitively not living up to their interpretation or wish for what the game would be in a modern version.

Trying to make hardcore Internet fans happy is a thankless job sometimes, so thanks for giving it a try. Good luck!

[Carl-Henrik]

If you want to look at it that way, the M2 ShotTriggers games aren't accurate anyway, as they have all sorts of things that are different from the arcade releases, like changing bosses to make them time out when they originally didn't and bug fixes and whatever else they have added/changed/improved. Oh yeah, improved... they have lower input lag than the arcade versions, as well, although you can turn that off for whatever reason. Not sure why you'd ever want more input lag, unless you've played a game so many times that you can tell the difference between 2 frames of lag and 3 frames of lag and having 2 frames messes you up or something.

I was mostly comparing the focus of MAME vs. dedicated ports, like the ports I'm doing and I feel that M2 has done a great job of making the games feel at home on the consoles they have released it for. I've only seen one person ask for a remake rather than emulation based porting which would take it a big step away from the emulation-accuracy!

This reminds me of a certain Toaplan remake. Have you played Snow Bros Special yet?

Please don't tell Yuge-san or anyone else at Tatsujin (unless they share my feelings, in which case I don't really mind lol), but it's, uh... well, Snow Bros isn't really my type of game to begin with, but setting that aside, I don't particularly feel the stage design or balance in the new stages is particularly great. I played it both in single player alone and then later with a friend of mine who absolutely LOVES Toaplan and we were both like "...uh, yeah, that was a game. It... exists. Yeah. Probably never playing it again...".

I have played it, and I would categorize that as an enthusiast tribute effort. I think if I had the choice of something like that I'd rather make a new game in the series than painstakingly recreating an old game down to every detail.

[Manualmartin]

Tatsujin confirming on their webpage that they're doing new games:
https://www.tatsujin.tokyo/products.html

[Steven]

Yeah, I saw that a few days ago. They seem to be teasing Genkai Chousen Distopia, as well, and Dynamic Trial 7 is also there.

[FunktionJCB]

It's great that new games are coming.

I enjoy re-releases as much as the next guy, but give me something new to play!

[Nugs]

I noticed the other day that Embracer Group staff is in the credits on the Snow Bros remake.
That came out in May so this obviously happened a fair while before the August announcement.

[Manualmartin]

Snow Bros Special was due to that Clear River Games (Embracer owned) published the physical version in Europe and North America. Technically that was a deal between Clear River Games and the developer CRT Games (who is a licensee to Tatsujin).

[MJR]

I just recently discovered Out Zone in Mame, thanks to Shmupjunkie's introduction of it on it's youtube channel and oh boy did I fall in love with it hard!

I welcome both Steam and Switch/M2 versions; Steam so that I can co-op it with my friend on PC over the internet (you better have this option available!!), and Switch/M2 so that I can have awesome portable version with lot of extra gadgets.

[Sumez]

After all that work PerishedFraud put in, shmupjunkie was what turned you over?

[MJR]

After all that work PerishedFraud put in, shmupjunkie was what turned you over?

Are you talking about the guy who has been drumming about Out Zone on few threads here? I must admit, I am bit lazy following this forum sometimes. Yes, it was shmupjunkie's "every toaplan game ever reviewed" that turned me over properly.

In any case, I consider Out Zone to be some of the finest arcade games I ever played, so it was a joy to discover it as late as in 2022. Wish I could afford the PCB.

[Sumez]

I just saw Bitwave will have a booth at this month's Retrospelsfestivalen in Malmö.
Looking forward to seeing what you have to show off there!

[cfx]

The reckoning is coming for Embracer Group:
https://embracer.com/releases/open-lett ... g-program/

Also:
https://embracer.com/releases/embracer- ... 6-million/

[FunktionJCB]

I wonder if this will have any impact on Bitwave's plans (it's been a while since we heard anything from them, and no new titles were announced), and/or the whole retro efforts that Embracer seemed to be developing.

[Steven]

This probably shouldn't have any impact on Tatsujin at all. Unsure about Bitwave.

As for Bitwave, I am still waiting for Bitwave to fix the broken audio in every Toaplan game, add the ability to actually have more than one autofire rate at once, make the enemy helicopters in Twin Cobra actually spawn correctly, and add the proper ROM for Out Zone.

The difficulty might still be fucked up, but I don't want to play these releases to find out because I do not want to play these games with broken audio. I can work with the sub-optimal autofire or even no autofire, but I want nothing to do with games that have broken audio.

[Sima Tuna]

The reckoning is coming for Embracer Group:
https://embracer.com/releases/open-lett ... g-program/

Also:
https://embracer.com/releases/embracer- ... 6-million/

It's being theorized that shitty star wars porting team Aspyr, who recently announced no plans to ever add the restored content mod to KotoR II (which they promised to do as part of the game's Switch launch,) are on the chopping block. Word has it many staff from Aspyr have already left or been terminated and with their removal from the KotoR remake, it's hard to imagine what they would possibly be working on going forward.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

After all that work PerishedFraud put in, shmupjunkie was what turned you over?

[Steven]

In any case, it does seem like the typical Disney/Activision/EA "buy a ton of companies just to get the IPs and then fire all of the employees because fuck them, only the greedy-ass CEO/board of directors/shareholders matter" thing. Surprised it took this long, though.