DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

[cave hermit]

Also it was done by Yagawa, so you must buy it or face the penalty of gratuitous bum-fuckery.

Hang on, I thought that's how he rewards his faithful?

It is. You see, bum fuckery is both Yagawa's greatest reward and most terrifying punishment, but only his devout acolytes can perceive the true nature of the act; they see past the mortal illusion of literal butthurt, and realize it to be a spiritual reuniting of the human soul with its benevolent creator.

Those who do not accept the faith only feel great agony as Yagawa's Silver Sword uses its napalm shot on their Junky Monkey.

[EmperorIng]

Since I'm less familiar with the game:

When you say that Yagawa designed the black label, are we talking bullet patterns? Enemy formations? Scoring? All of it?

That gives me a bit more incentive to pick this up, because the only YGW stuff I've played is all from the 90s.

[Oniros]

Since I'm less familiar with the game:

When you say that Yagawa designed the black label, are we talking bullet patterns? Enemy formations? Scoring? All of it?

That gives me a bit more incentive to pick this up, because the only YGW stuff I've played is all from the 90s.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=35324

This should be a good starting point.

[STG4WD]

And why that nagging youth keeps trying to tell us what kind of attitude we should display on our own goddamned forum is completely beyond me... I imagine him being constantly annoyed in real life since nobody behaves the way he would like them to.

Lol, another one who sees me as the problem here.


Here's how the maths works, Grandad:


Number of players needed to justify development cost of a new premium shmup title = A

Number of players currently playing shmups = B


A-B = C = The number of players who would need to be attracted to the genre to ensure a new premium game


Now take a look at the more successful game genres, where new games are released all the time. Is this forum reflective of the kinds of media (blogs, live streams, tournament info etc.) that are common with those genres?

If not, then why act like I'm the problem here? I'm just making constructive suggestions.


.

[Cagar]

-

[Immryr]

Stg4wd, do you ever look back at your posts and think "I am a chode"?

[AxelMill]

I am feeling the DFK meh considerably less than the DS meh. That's simply because, while I do have Resurrection on 360 and I did pay half of what will probably cost on Steam, I do not own the Black Label and I do not intend to buy it on the former platform. You know, no Ketsuipachi.
I will definitely wait for a sale, though, considering I still do own the game, technically.

Spoiler

I still want SDOJ more, though.
"What's the point of asking it that much if you haven't even played it?"
Because I haven't played it, and I don't want Cave on Steam to be nothing but a double-dip-fest.

Oh, and they are definitely not lolis. Young, maybe, but not lolis. If you think NEXY* is a loli, get some glasses. Shooty/Shotia kinda is, though, yeah.

*I still find it weird that you kill the main "villain" of the game 8 minutes into the game.

[STG4WD]

Stg4wd, do you ever look back at your posts and think "I am a chode"?

No why, are you a ben-chode?

If anyone here has a problem with my posts, then state positively your better ideas for attracting more players to the genre. That's all I'm doing.

[NTSC-J]

If anyone here has a problem with my posts, then state positively your better ideas for attracting more players to the genre.

Well, what is that attracted you to the genre? I think if we can figure that out, and make sure to never do it again, everyone will be better off.

There's a funny thing about this forum where newcomers to the genre are all gung ho about "saving" shmups and want to figure out ways to bring them back to the glory days. After some time, that begins to wear off and you turn into a jaded curmudgeon like Bananamatic, but I think it's a comfortable place to be. We know what we like and for most here it isn't DFK.

But good luck to Degica, I hope it sells well.

[STG4WD]

If anyone here has a problem with my posts, then state positively your better ideas for attracting more players to the genre.

Well, what is that attracted you to the genre? I think if we can figure that out, and make sure to never do it again, everyone will be better off.

There's a funny thing about this forum where newcomers to the genre are all gung ho about "saving" shmups and want to figure out ways to bring them back to the glory days. After some time, that begins to wear off and you turn into a jaded curmudgeon like Bananamatic, but I think it's a comfortable place to be. We know what we like and for most here it isn't DFK.

But good luck to Degica, I hope it sells well.

If anyone here has a problem with my posts, then state positively your better ideas for attracting more players to the genre. That's all I'm doing.

[Some-Mist]

And why that nagging youth keeps trying to tell us what kind of attitude we should display on our own goddamned forum is completely beyond me... I imagine him being constantly annoyed in real life since nobody behaves the way he would like them to.

Lol, another one who sees me as the problem here.


Here's how the maths works, Grandad:


Number of players needed to justify development cost of a new premium shmup title = A

Number of players currently playing shmups = B


A-B = C = The number of players who would need to be attracted to the genre to ensure a new premium game


Now take a look at the more successful game genres, where new games are released all the time. Is this forum reflective of the kinds of media (blogs, live streams, tournament info etc.) that are common with those genres?

If not, then why act like I'm the problem here? I'm just making constructive suggestions.


.

maybe, just maybe if we can make this genre popular enough, we can get more premium titles like sine mora.

[clippa]

This is getting a bit too close to "safety in numbers" bullying for my liking.
Regardless of what you think about the game, nobody wants to read 4 pages of bickering.

I get STG's point, it would perhaps have been nice if we could at least have started on the canapés before bananaman wiped his arse on the curtains
but that's the nature of discussion forums, we should welcome all opinions, especially the ones we disagree with.

Let's not turn on each other, nobody is in the wrong here.

[STG4WD]

There's a funny thing about this forum where newcomers to the genre are all gung ho about "saving" shmups and want to figure out ways to bring them back to the glory days. After some time, that begins to wear off and you turn into a jaded curmudgeon like Bananamatic, but I think it's a comfortable place to be. We know what we like and for most here it isn't DFK.

Have you guys ever considered that the way you treat enthusiastic newbies round here is PART OF THE PROBLEM?

Someone Western buys DFK on Steam as their first shmup because they hear it's a friendly introduction to the genre... Then they come here because it's the main Western/English forum, and get sh*t on by grumpy old dudes, who apparently can't figure out why nobody wants to play with them any more...

[Van_Artic]

maybe, just maybe if we can make this genre popular enough, we can get more premium titles like sine mora.

oh god please no

[NTSC-J]

There's a funny thing about this forum where newcomers to the genre are all gung ho about "saving" shmups and want to figure out ways to bring them back to the glory days. After some time, that begins to wear off and you turn into a jaded curmudgeon like Bananamatic, but I think it's a comfortable place to be. We know what we like and for most here it isn't DFK.

Have you guys ever considered that the way you treat enthusiastic newbies round here is PART OF THE PROBLEM?

Someone Western buys DFK on Steam as their first shmup because they hear it's a friendly introduction to the genre... Then they come here because it's the main Western/English forum, and get sh*t on by grumpy old dudes, who apparently can't figure out why nobody wants to play with them any more...

You may be right; just look at the reception this guy got this week. Poor kid will never be right again.

Clippa has a point, though, I don't want to turn this into a STG4WD bash session. I don't think anyone here is against new players coming in or anyone playing DFK, but it's one of the most controversial games in the Cave library and not many people here are into it so that (along with the constant issues with these ports) is why the reaction has been pretty lukewarm.

[Perikles]

Have you guys ever considered that the way you treat enthusiastic newbies round here is PART OF THE PROBLEM?

The reason you're treated in a snarky manner has nothing to do with your enthusiasm, it's entirely related to your tone. You brought up the FGC a few times: how would they react when someone barges in, complains that there's too much talk about those "crusty old games" and too little about the new titles (which is not exactly a positive statement, either) and that the vast majority, if not all members are either "snobby", "elitist", "grumpy" or downright "moronic"? You demand a rigid moderation, but you're the one who benefits from the lax implementation of rules around here since a good share of your posts are rather insulting. Your intentions might be just, your behaviour is not.

[...] who apparently can't figure out why nobody wants to play with them any more...

NTSC-J already said it: that's frankly not a concern of the autochthons. If more people join - great! If not - so be it. The popularity/activity argument is not one anyone bothers too much with. And I personally don't see why it's so important, either. You obviously need active players to keep the aforementioned fighting games alive since playing against the CPU is not the pinnacle of the genre. But it's not incredibly relevant when you play a single-player game, you can enjoy it just as much if you're the only human being on earth who dabbles with it.

[STG4WD]

OK I have a positive proposal to try and end this deadlock:

How about, starting with DDPR on Steam, the mods add another board to the forum called something like 'Releases'.

On this board you get a single topic per newly released shmup (including multiple platforms- same thread) from 2016 onwards, and by common agreement the only posts in those topics are from people who have actually bought the game and want to enjoy playing it, or from people helping those players (including technical issues with the release).

There can be a parallel topic in Shmups Chat for people who want to talk shit/whine about the game generally, but it doesn't come on to the 'Releases' board. That board is reserved for people who are enjoying the game and want to be positive about it (hence they bought it) and possibly organise score challenges or live streams etc. If you don't like the game, don't play it and don't come on the 'Releases' board to moan about it.

Is that not a reasonable suggestion?

[Squire Grooktook]

Nah, I think we're fine as is.

I think you're big problem is that, as I've said before, you don't know much about this community and you should probably stop making suggestions and demands (with an insulting and arrogant tone, as Perikles pointed out) until you know it better.

Reception for newbies: I was treated extremely well, and I've seen various others treated well as well. This is a pretty helpful and friendly place with a lot of great discussion. If you come in here acting immature you're going to get punted out, same as you would on any fighting game forum or whatever. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that you weren't immediately banned after insulting Icarus, which goes to show how tolerant the mods must be feeling lately.

Release Hype: We've had plenty of this. Mecha Ritz's release was celebrated. Eschatos release and port was celebrated. Lots of doujin games get pre-release hype as well. DFK is, as previously stated, a very controversial title that gravely disappointed a lot of people when it launched nearly 8 years ago. It's not a surprise that a lot of people would be rather lukewarm about this port, but if you had a better tone you could easily get some discussion going. There's also nothing stopping you from doing live streams or a scoring contest or whatever yourself.

As for attempts to drive the games via community, I've discussed this before with others, but your biggest mistake is assuming fighting games = shmups. They appeal to different demographics because they're fundamentally different types of games and experiences, and what works for one would not work (or even nessiecarily be possible) for the other. As a result they're communities evolve differently as well. This forum being the way it is isn't a product of its community but the games themselves. I've discussed "how to make shmups popular" many times before, and I'm sick of repeatedly typing the same 4-5 paragraphs, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Some-Mist]

On this board you get a single topic per newly released shmup (including multiple platforms- same thread) from 2016 onwards, and by common agreement the only posts in those topics are from people who have actually bought the game and want to enjoy playing it, or from people helping those players (including technical issues with the release).

there's already a strategy section that serves that purpose... might not be a bad idea to meander over there.

edit: there's also threads like this

[Zen]

OK I have a positive proposal to try and end this deadlock:

How about, starting with DDPR on Steam, the mods add another board to the forum called something like 'Releases'.

On this board you get a single topic per newly released shmup (including multiple platforms- same thread) from 2016 onwards, and by common agreement the only posts in those topics are from people who have actually bought the game and want to enjoy playing it, or from people helping those players (including technical issues with the release).

There can be a parallel topic in Shmups Chat for people who want to talk shit/whine about the game generally, but it doesn't come on to the 'Releases' board. That board is reserved for people who are enjoying the game and want to be positive about it (hence they bought it) and possibly organise score challenges or live streams etc. If you don't like the game, don't play it and don't come on the 'Releases' board to moan about it.

Is that not a reasonable suggestion?

Psssst, STG4WD . . . . . . spoiler alert

Spoiler

[Van_Artic]

[...]
On this board you get a single topic per newly released shmup (including multiple platforms- same thread) from 2016 onwards, and by common agreement the only posts in those topics are from people who have actually bought the game and want to enjoy playing it, or from people helping those players (including technical issues with the release).

There can be a parallel topic in Shmups Chat for people who want to talk shit/whine about the game generally, but it doesn't come on to the 'Releases' board. [...]

what if i bought the game but i wanna complain about it cause the quality is poor/i don't like it????????
i'm not sure the Degica guys want the headache of checking two threads at the same time

(dont get me wrong i like DFK but these ideas are terrible)

[STG4WD]

what if i bought the game but i wanna complain about it cause the quality is poor/i don't like it????????
i'm not sure the Degica guys want the headache of checking two threads at the same time

If your complaint is about the technical implementation of the game (such as slowdown) then it belongs in 'Releases'. If you just subjectively don't like it for no technical reason then yeah, the rule would be that you complain about it elsewhere and leave the 'Releases' topic for people who want to enjoy the game. Seems fair to me, and not that hard to deal with.

[cave hermit]

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh2je2c45Ig

[STG4WD]

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh2je2c45Ig

I know how it works now when people round here start trying to break threads with spam (because they are out of real debate).

Would ask the mods to delete the quoted post- this thread is a serious discussion, well within the forum rules.

[Squire Grooktook]

And his post is also within forum rules. If anything, you're likely the one on thin ice with mods, so please, have some humility.

And no, splitting into a "technical vs subjective" boards is a ridiculous and convoluted idea that would accomplish nothing.

You keep referencing fighting games, but I don't know of any fighting game forum that does anything so ridiculous. There aren't fucking separate boards for "subjective vs objective opinions" or "technical vs personal taste" or anything ridiculous like that.

[STG4WD]

And his post is also within forum rules. If anything, you're likely the one on thin ice with mods, so please, have some humility.

And no, splitting into a "technical vs subjective" boards is a ridiculous and convoluted idea that would accomplish nothing.

You keep referencing fighting games, but I don't know of any fighting game forum that does anything so ridiculous. There aren't fucking separate boards for "subjective vs objective opinions" or "technical vs personal taste" or anything ridiculous like that.

His is just spam, attempting to break the thread. It should be deleted.

Also, you haven't really grasped my original suggestion.

[CloudyMusic]

I don't understand what purpose this theoretical new board would serve other than just being a "positive posts only zone" which is useless. I can see the merit to a "no shitposting/low-effort trolling" rule but telling people they can't express negative feelings at all is absurd.

Besides, I'm not sure how much discussion there is even going to be about the game that isn't centered around technical issues with the port. For the most part, just about everyone here knows what DFK is; it's seen no less than three separate releases over the years that provided people opportunities to talk about it, play it, and ask questions about it. Strategy guides are written, common beginner questions have already been answered many times over.

Most potential brand-new players probably don't even know that this place exists, and will just post on the Steam forums or something. (And before you say it, I'm pretty sure that growing this forum into some sort of busy SRK-like hub with a slick news blog and dramatically higher server costs isn't something System11 is exactly jumping to do. If that's something you think is important for this scene, by all means, take a crack at it.)

People who want to ask questions about strategy or tips can do so on the Strategy subforum (and really should do it there; sprinkling random strategy talk around other boards makes it hard for others to find it in the future). People who want to share scores can do so on the Hi Scores subforum.

[Squire Grooktook]

Also, you haven't really grasped my original suggestion.

I grasped it, but this is the kind of "nuh-uh!" response that ensures nobody who values their time will bother with a debate.

Like NTSC-J, I don't want to cross the line into bullying, so I'll say it one more time before I skedaddle: You have a very low post count and I haven't seen you in more then one or two threads, so I highly recommend you familiarize yourself with the forum before making suggestions or criticizing. Especially with the tone you've been using. Most things are already covered, and the place and genre aren't really what you think they are.

[z0mbie90]

5% DFK in this thread.
95% Bullshit that you bring on yourself, could have been the other way around if you just ignored some harmless jokes.

But to the topic of this thread. Im hyped about the game and can't wait to play Black Label and Ketuipachi.

[emphatic]

Ketsuipatchi. Full hype get. Still moist from watching that trailer for Black Label Arrange years ago.


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