Nes rgb with composite colors?

[FBX]

I definitely remember Super Mario Bros. being much closer to the left picture on the TV I played it on as a child than the right.

Except I'm going by what I run in the live NES right now rather than what I might remember from decades ago. You'd be surprised to find out SMB is actually closer to the image on the right when you test it.

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

Wow, thank you so much for making this happen Tim! I, like Voultar, would have preferred if FBX's palette replaced the Natural palette (and spared the PC10), but I'm just grateful to have a firmware build that allows users to make that choice for themselves!

And to kamiboy, you've already stated that you're perfectly happy with the YUV palette earlier in the thread; no one has ever disparaged or questioned your personal preference, so you can take your passive aggressive condescension elsewhere- no one in this thread is interested in hearing it. Also, your picture in your post doesn't work.

[RGB32E]

And to kamiboy, you've already stated that you're perfectly happy with the YUV palette earlier in the thread; no one has ever disparaged or questioned your personal preference, so you can take your passive aggressive condescension elsewhere- no one in this thread is interested in hearing it.

What is wrong with you guys?! The improved palette is where it's at!

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Hey man, whatever works for you; just don't tell me my preference is invalid

As an aside, Improved looks good with some early NES games, particularly Zelda 1 IMHO.

[RGB32E]

just don't tell me my preference is invalid

This is precisely what the charlatan palette achieves at some level.

As an aside, Improved looks good with some early NES games, particularly Zelda 1 IMHO.

YMMV. The light violet sky of SMB with Natural is essentially addressed with Improved. On a NTSC TV with original composite video, it can be adjusted using the tint control.

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

just don't tell me my preference is invalid

This is precisely what the charlatan palette achieves at some level.

As an aside, Improved looks good with some early NES games, particularly Zelda 1 IMHO.

YMMV. The light violet sky of SMB with Natural is essentially addressed with Improved. On a NTSC TV with original composite video, it can be adjusted using the tint control.

Charlatan palette, I prefer to think of it as the "Polemical Palette", simply due to the fervent admonishments it's inspired in some for even suggesting that their precious YUV paleete could be modified.

[leonk]

I blasted the updated firmware onto my NESRGB, and so far so good! The overall feel of the colors is that they are more toned down than "natural" .. overall ... I like it!

It feels like I'm playing my old NES on my CRT (except a heck of a lot sharper and cleaner image) but without the "blast" of color in your face. Great job everyone!

[kamiboy]

The none working picture was the last one from Faxanadu from a few posts above. You know, the one with the brown trees, brown guy, and brown everything, except for the sky thank god. In my humble opinion the irony was delicious but then again these things tend to fly far above heads that take small things way too seriously.

It is videogames guys, try to remember to enjoy yourselves, that was their point after all. Also, whatever your tweaked palette looks like I am sure it is not as gaudy as the stock "enhanced" palette that comes as an option on the NESRGB. I tried that for fun the other day, and boy was it hedious.

[FBX]

I want to thank Tim for taking the time to release the alternate firmware update. That is MUCH appreciated!

So I need to get my own Altera USB Blaster. Ebay auctions show they are pretty cheap, but I want to make sure I'm getting the right equipment. Can someone that has updated the firmware give me a link to the specific device I need? I just want to make sure I'm getting it right. Thanks!

[leonk]

Search on eBay for "altera mini blaster". Anything that says rev C on it is what you want. You need the blaster, the mini USB to USB cable and the ribbon cable. Nothing else. You will need to then modify / solder in the ribbon cable onto the NESRGB. Only 6 wires from ribbon cable are used. You'll need to cross reference blaster pin out to NESRGB one. Download software and blast away. NES needs to be powered on to program.

If you installed the NESRGB yourself, this is easy.

Good luck.

[FBX]

Thanks for the heads up!

[FBX]

Just got my Avermedia capture device in the mail, and it was immediately way better than my hauppauge piece of crap. I quickly hooked up my RGB NES and a regular unmodded NES to get a sample of those troublesome blue-green color values from both consoles. The results were interesting to say the least:



The top row is how the RGB modded NES "natural" palette came out, while the bottom row is taken from the RCA yellow video jack on the side of the unmodded console. What's interesting aside from the blue shift on the unmodded console's colors is how they greatly jump in intensity/brightness on the 3rd and 4th entries. The natural palette uses a more gradual ramp up through the entries.

I'm going to generate an entire palette from the Avermedia captures and see what that looks like compared to my custom job.

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

Super cool; I'm very interested to see if there are any further variations between the Nestopia YUV palette and a stock NES- please keep us posted with your findings!

[leonk]

Super cool; I'm very interested to see if there are any further variations between the Nestopia YUV palette and a stock NES- please keep us posted with your findings!

I was playing around with a system that has the palette switch installed and was switching between YUV and the new one. There is a noticeable difference, but it's very very small. Nothing as drastic as PC10/NEStopia palette.

[mvsfan]

Yes, i would also be interested in trying FBX's palette but like other people have mentioned id prefer to replace the natural palette.

I use the improved and playchoice palette all the time. some games like gun nac i think look way better on playchoice.

I hardly ever use natural.

Btw, Thanks Tim for providing an updated firmware. Im still going to try it.

[Voultar]

Yes, i would also be interested in trying FBX's palette but like other people have mentioned id prefer to replace the natural palette.

I use the improved and playchoice palette all the time. some games like gun nac i think look way better on playchoice.

I hardly ever use natural.

Btw, Thanks Tim for providing an updated firmware. Im still going to try it.

I agree, 100%. I'd much rather replace the NESRGB's natural palette than have to sacrifice the PC-10.

Thanks FBX for putting so much time into this.

And thanks Tim, for supporting your product!

[leonk]

I think we should hold out for FBX to do his measurements before bugging Tim for any more updates..

Now if only Kevtris can also provide a patch form my NES HDMI with the FBX palette ..

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

Well, thanks to leonk, I now have FBX's custom palette flashed to my AV Famicom, and man is it good! Apart from the aforementioned YUV Nestopia blue//green adjustments, there's a lot of more subtle changes, such as a darkening of many background highlight colours (think Bionic Commando level 1 bricks), as well as brightening some green entries that were more yellowish in Nestopia (SMB 1 Pipes, TMNT skin colour). Bottom line, it's my new go to palette, and I highly recommend people check it out. Thank you very much to FBX for undertaking this endeavor, and to Tim for his continued customer support!

In addition, I'll chime in to say that I agree with the sentiments expressed above; it would be ideal if FBX's palette replaced Natural (and thus preserved PC10), as the two are somewhat redundant, but at the same time leonk is right in that we should hold off on bugging Tim when FBX may be able to produce an even more refined/referenced palette from his captures.

[FBX]

Well I finished the Avermedia capture, and honestly it looks worse than my custom palette when I switch between the two to compare. There's something about deriving colors from filled-screen test ROMS that just doesn't look right when you apply it to actual games. Maybe it's something to do with lack of color blending when you take fullscreen color captures. I really don't know for sure why it doesn't look as good.

At any rate, I'll post here for posterity, but it does not get my recommendation for anything other than a curiosity:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/FBX ... rmedia.zip

Edit: Actually giving it a 2nd look on a few games and it's not THAT bad. I still prefer my custom set though.

[yxkalle]

Well I finished the Avermedia capture, and honestly it looks worse than my custom palette when I switch between the two to compare.

So the captured video looks different (colour-wise) from an emulator using this new palette? If so, why?

[FBX]

Well I finished the Avermedia capture, and honestly it looks worse than my custom palette when I switch between the two to compare.

So the captured video looks different (colour-wise) from an emulator using this new palette? If so, why?

I want to say it's the lack of context. Our eyes see the poor image quality of the NES making colors that don't really look that way. The Avermedia capture palette used a test ROM that filled the screen with a single color entry, and I would use the controller to advance to the next color entry and so on. The custom palette I made used more a mix of human perception during live gameplay graphics. That subtle difference makes the custom palette more warm and inviting, whereas the straight fullscreen capture seems rather 'synthetic' as best as I can put it.

[leonk]

Not to mention that color is a very difficult thing to reproduce. There are many colors around us which can't be captured / reproduced even on HDTV's. Calibration, human eyes, etc mucks it up further.

Thanks for taking a stab at it though!

[bobrocks95]

Am I the only one that sees the irony that now we've gotten more accurate, directly-sourced colors and are throwing them out because they look "worse"?

[leonk]

Am I the only one that sees the irony that now we've gotten more accurate, directly-sourced colors and are throwing them out because they look "worse"?

I think Tim eluded to this earlier. NES color reproduction is so poor due to the technology that getting it bang might not actually be correct. Do you want measured accurate or perceived accurate?

I think a lot of people prefer perceived accurate (why else would devices like XRGB have scan line generators, or "retro mode" on N64 HDMI)

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

I've got to agree with you FBX, I personally prefer your custom palette to the results of your direct capture calibrations. I don't think they look bad, just not as "pleasing" perhaps. Thank you for your efforts; it's interesting to explore the results of your scientific inquiry, as well as your speculation as to the potential discrepancy between internal values, and the displayed colours we see.

The only game that I'm able to find that I prefer the YUV Nestopia palette (or your even moreso your direct capture one) is Darkwing Duck, specifically the bridge stage. To me, the blue night sky looks a little too vibrant in your custom palette and overpowers the foreground elements, and the colours of the bridge in the background look a little too dark IMHO. Perhaps if that blue was toned down a bit it would be even tighter, but that's so small of a niggle that it's not even worth the trouble of adjustment/reflashing.

[FBX]

New direct capture palette coming in (working on it as I type this). Previous direct-capture palette was incorrectly converted (which explains why it looked bad when finished). The new direct-captures are FINALLY making sense as I convert each entry. I'll post the download as soon as I finish it.

[FBX]

Direct Capture palette finished, and it actually is BETTER than my eyeballed palette FINALLY!

Every game I tried looks spot-on now. I'm glad this direct-captured method finally made some visual sense. The last attempt had horribly inaccurate color conversion.


Here's the finalized direct-capture palette:


http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/FBX ... -Final.zip

[leonk]

Hey Atomic Punk! Give it a shot .. tell us what you think with your golden eyes.

[RGB32E]

Hey Atomic Punk! Give it a shot .. tell us what you think with your golden eyes.

Looks like FBX has a cheerleader!

[panzeroceania]

Firebrandx, what was the difference in your workflow that changed your results?