And Treasure's new shmup is coming to... *drum roll*

[The n00b]

A lot of retro lovers just suck at finding new good games. Don't worry, in 10 years we'll go over the same damn thing, how the ps2 has 400 must have titles and the newest ones have nothing.

In 10 years we won't even have consoles in the traditional sense; it'll all be simulated movements in virtual environments.

source: Frank, GameCrazy....WHILE HIGH ON CRACK

Fixed

[sethsez]

A lot of retro lovers just suck at finding new good games. Don't worry, in 10 years we'll go over the same damn thing, how the ps2 has 400 must have titles and the newest ones have nothing.

In 10 years we won't even have consoles in the traditional sense; it'll all be simulated movements in virtual environments.

source: Frank, GameCrazy

I laff'd.

[Valgar]

Well, for one thing, history has shown, that they tend to stick to one console at a time... Up to the release of PS-2, GC & X-Box.

No it hasn't, the only time that is true is for the Mega Drive when they were first formed and Sega (who they have a great relationship with) published their games.

[bluberry]

A lot of retro lovers just suck at finding new good games. Don't worry, in 10 years we'll go over the same damn thing, how the ps2 has 400 must have titles and the newest ones have nothing.

In 10 years we won't even have consoles in the traditional sense; it'll all be simulated movements in virtual environments.

source: Frank, GameCrazy

9/10.

[dave4shmups]

In 10 years we won't even have consoles in the traditional sense; it'll all be simulated movements in virtual environments.

Just like we'd all have video phones by now? Of course, then we found out that people don't want to look at each other while they're talking on the phone, so even though they're possible nobody wants them anyway.

Simulated movement isn't nearly as convenient as a hand-held controller, so no, we're not going to have a holodeck for gaming even if we get the technology. Joe Fatass isn't going to buy Madden if he has to exert a lot of energy to play it.

It's called discussing. If you all can tell me that you have the right to pre-judge a game before it even comes out, or nitpick the hell out of every shmup collection that comes out, then I can darn well pre-judge a console, or at the very least it's design, thank you very much.

Where did I say that was any more justified than this? Don't put words in my mouth, since I never said I "have the right to pre-judge a game before it even comes out" or implied it.

And if someone says "thing A is stupid" then I have the right to say "judging thing A with no information whatever is stupid" thank you very much.

And as far as this "I play games not systems" nonsense goes, well then, I guess since I need a set of wheels I can just drive a car and not make payments on it, live in a house and do the same, and refuse to pay taxes while demanding government services. It's the exact same argument.

...what?

Um... here's a shot in the dark. You think "I play games, not systems" has something to do with piracy, right? That's about all I can get from this comment.

Why do you all find this so hard to believe when there's already a patent out on a movement simulation device??

Shit gets patented all the time. If everything that got patented wound up being THE FUTURE OF VIDEOGAMES then we'd have one fucked-up hobby.

OK I apologize for putting words in your mouth, the point I was trying to make is that it's pretty silly for anyone on this site to complain about pre-judging these new consoles when every shmup that's even announced seems to get labeled "crap" before anyone's ever played it yet. So why, then, are you complaining about what's going on in this thread? We certainly have at least as much information on the Revolution, the 360, and the PS3 as we do about any new shmup that's coming out.

And yes, my comment was directed towards piracy, that's just the way I feel.

Agreed about the patents and simulated movement, although some people may get sucked into the novelty and the "it's new so I must have it!!" syndrome that that could override any inconvenience.

[sethsez]

OK I apologize for putting words in your mouth, the point I was trying to make is that it's pretty silly for anyone on this site to complain about pre-judging these new consoles when every shmup that's even announced seems to get labeled "crap" before anyone's ever played it yet. So why, then, are you complaining about what's going on in this thread? We certainly have at least as much information on the Revolution, the 360, and the PS3 as we do about any new shmup that's coming out.

I say that whining is stupid, too. I'm just not going to go into every thread that contains a prophet of doom because it would get very redundant, very fast.

And yes, my comment was directed towards piracy, that's just the way I feel.

Okay, but what does that have to do with "I play games, not systems"? I mean, if someone says "boy, it sure is muggy outside today" it doesn't make much sense to reply with "the indoctrination methods used in Scientology are abominable" no matter how true that may be.

However, even though I thought "I play games, not systems" was very straightfoward, I'll explain it. Systems exist solely to play games. They are, without games, worthless. Thus, I don't buy an Xbox to play with the Xbox, I buy an Xbox to play the games on the Xbox. So when someone (who's willing to spend $200 on a rare TG-CD game or something, mind you) refuses to play a game because it's on the PS2 and they only like games that are on the Dreamcast, I'm baffled. The games made the Dreamcast, not the other way around (it certainly didn't manage to make Trizeal interesting), and a good game is a good game no matter what it's on. In other words, I play games, not systems. You completely missed the point.

Agreed about the patents and simulated movement, although some people may get sucked into the novelty and the "it's new so I must have it!!" syndrome that that could override any inconvenience.

Except companies have tried to sell us more immersion for years, in the form of force-feedback vests, consumer-grade VR headsets, 3D controllers on the PC of many types, hell, even bullshit like the Activator. People don't buy it because it's more hassle than it's worth, and in terms of full-motion control, because it completely misses the point regarding who plays games and why they do so.

[dave4shmups]

OK I apologize for putting words in your mouth, the point I was trying to make is that it's pretty silly for anyone on this site to complain about pre-judging these new consoles when every shmup that's even announced seems to get labeled "crap" before anyone's ever played it yet. So why, then, are you complaining about what's going on in this thread? We certainly have at least as much information on the Revolution, the 360, and the PS3 as we do about any new shmup that's coming out.

I say that whining is stupid, too. I'm just not going to go into every thread that contains a prophet of doom because it would get very redundant, very fast.

And yes, my comment was directed towards piracy, that's just the way I feel.

Okay, but what does that have to do with "I play games, not systems"? I mean, if someone says "boy, it sure is muggy outside today" it doesn't make much sense to reply with "the indoctrination methods used in Scientology are abominable" no matter how true that may be.

However, even though I thought "I play games, not systems" was very straightfoward, I'll explain it. Systems exist solely to play games. They are, without games, worthless. Thus, I don't buy an Xbox to play with the Xbox, I buy an Xbox to play the games on the Xbox. So when someone (who's willing to spend $200 on a rare TG-CD game or something, mind you) refuses to play a game because it's on the PS2 and they only like games that are on the Dreamcast, I'm baffled. The games made the Dreamcast, not the other way around (it certainly didn't manage to make Trizeal interesting), and a good game is a good game no matter what it's on. In other words, I play games, not systems. You completely missed the point.

Agreed about the patents and simulated movement, although some people may get sucked into the novelty and the "it's new so I must have it!!" syndrome that that could override any inconvenience.

Except companies have tried to sell us more immersion for years, in the form of force-feedback vests, consumer-grade VR headsets, 3D controllers on the PC of many types, hell, even bullshit like the Activator. People don't buy it because it's more hassle than it's worth, and in terms of full-motion control, because it completely misses the point regarding who plays games and why they do so.

OK, I understand where you're coming from with the "I play games, not systems" comment, sorry for the misunderstanding! And yeah, companies have tried to sell us more immersion, and people still prefer traditional controllers-hopefully it will stay that way for a LONG time to come!

[ST Dragon]

Well, for one thing, history has shown, that they tend to stick to one console at a time... Up to the release of PS-2, GC & X-Box.

No it hasn't, the only time that is true is for the Mega Drive when they were first formed and Sega (who they have a great relationship with) published their games.

Even during the 32bit console wars, I only remember Treasure releasing games for the Saturn, not for the PSX.

That only changed in the modern era of consoles. (PS-2,X-Box,GC, GBA)
Correct me if I'm wrong...

[Ganelon]

Um, Rakugai Showtime and Silhouette Mirage? And Mischief Makers, Sin & Punishment, and Bangaioh for the N64?

[ST Dragon]

Hmm... Yes you're right.
But I thought Silhouette Mirage was Japan Saturn only...?
Was it also released for EURO & US Saturn & PSX?

[Ganelon]

Silhouette Mirage was released for JP SS, JP PS, and US PS. The PS versions have the subtitle "Reprogrammed Hope." Dunno about a PAL version.

[ST Dragon]

Interesting.
Which is better the US Saturn or US PSX version, in the graphics & translation department?

I must admit, Treasure did a wonderful job on the transparencies & effects on the JPN Saturn version, which was considered nearly impossible on the Saturn hardware.
They must have used some pretty clever software routines, to overcome the hardware disadvantages in the transparencies department.

[Ganelon]

There was no US SS version. The SS version definitely looks better although transparencies may have been better on the PS. WD translated the US version and decided to mask most of the biblical references to alternate translations (e.g. Sloth to Surosa, Pride to Priday).

[ST Dragon]

WD being stupid again I see...

Is that the only thing they changed? Was the rest of the translation ok?

The most memorable moment on the SS version, was the part where you face that Boss on a large canyon & a huge laser beam blasts the huge cylindrical structure in the background & obliterates it in Japanese fashion.

I could never understand what was going on in the Japanese SS version?! I would love to read the dialogue between you & the Boss in that specific part.

One very interesting element also noticeable in Ikaruga, (The changing side ofthe ships) is the fact that your player has two different coloured sides, presumably based on the Asian Good & Evil Tao philosophy?

[Ganelon]

According to the US release (which does seem fairly accurate given that it's a sorta biblical tale and all despite the name discrepancies), that's because Megiddo wanted to test your abilities to successfully overcome any obstacles thrown by Hal to prevent you form fulfilling your destiny as the savior who will destroy the current form of the world. He destroys the worm dudes to let you continue on your path.