R-Type is complete rubbish

[R-Gray 1]

i think more than a memorizer is a game than need to make strategies or think how can i beat that part of the stage. You need that to get to the next stage without scoring.
you can use the extra element called the force. The stage design is great. It has Classic shmups style but the force gives a unique style. Is not an easy game.

in horizontal shmups is a gr8 game.

[CIT]

While gameplay surely isn't the strongest point of the early Darius games, I prefer their dreamy, almost psychedelic atmosphere and the superb soundtrack by Zuntata over R-Type.

Nothing beats Zuntata's soundtracks. But I do think all the classic horizontal-scroll series have their own unique and very strong atmosphere:

Darius really makes you feel the insignificance of human existence in the face of the vastness of space and millions of years of different lifeforms evolving. The soundtrack underscores this "mystery of life" theme for me.

Gradius is like the ultimate space opera. Emboldened by the upbeat soundtrack you experience the heroism of man challenging the universe against all odds and realizing a world of infinite possibility.

R-Type, like none other, makes you feel the hopelessness and inescapable horror of death. The world of R-Type is one of permanent existential threat, cold and dangerous, with no consolation, only the certainty that even if you win the battle, humanity will not win the war, if nothing else, because it will the master of its own downfall.

I might be reading too much into these games, but it's this kind of atmospheric "density" and overarching theme or Weltanschauung that's missing in a lot of newer games. Some Cave games have it (Guwange, DOJ, for example) but others just leave me cold.

I think this is also the reason Battle Garegga is considered by so many (rightly) to be the greatest shooter ever made. It has it all: intense pacing, deep scoring, brilliant presentation/atmosphere — the perfect blend of old and new school!

[Skykid]

^ Superb post. And accurate.

For me Touhou, Futari, SDOJ, DFK, Eschatos, Caladrius and a stock of more recent shmups fail to generate an inimitable atmosphere or feel of a wider universe. It doesn't make them poor games but it's a shame that this once evocative aspect of videogame art has been sidelined for base technical progress.

In this aspect I concur R-Type delivers, your interpretation being spot on.

[MR_Soren]

In 1987, R-Type was an audio and visual marvel, and the force pod introduced a lot of technical play to the genre. R-Type is also one of the most ported shoot-em-ups of all time. Every platform that could somewhat handle the game had an R-Type port, and it's inspired numerous imitators. The art direction also held up well, I think it's still among the best.

As such, one has to admit that R-Type is one of the most important shoot-em-ups ever released. Of course, a top-25 is about listing the current best, not best for their time or most influential. However, a game that is best for it's time and very influential has an advantage that most games do not have: More people have played it.

Perhaps there are dozens of better shoot-em-ups, but people are only going to vote for games they've played.

And yeah, Battle Garegga is just oozing awesome.

[indutrial]

I might be reading too much into these games, but it's this kind of atmospheric "density" and overarching theme or Weltanschauung that's missing in a lot of newer games. Some Cave games have it (Guwange, DOJ, for example) but others just leave me cold.

Agreed with your entire post and would say you're reading into them just the right amount . It probably helps the atmosphere of those older horizontal games that most of them skimped on story and, more than that, generally didn't have you playing as some flying anime character or an anime pilot who you see at the beginning, end, and between all of the levels. I guess Darius is an exception to that, but I didn't realize that series had characters until seeing some Youtube footage of the original arcade game recently.

For me, most of those older Konami games seem like they take place in some sort of nightmare dimensions. While the R-Type stuff at least feels like space stations and alien nests, what can comparably be said of levels like Xexex's stage 2 (will never forget the one reviewer here calling it the 'Chucky Cheese ballpit stage') or Gradius' crystal labyrinth levels?

[eebrozgi]

For me Touhou, Futari, SDOJ, DFK, Eschatos, Caladrius and a stock of more recent shmups fail to generate an inimitable atmosphere or feel of a wider universe. It doesn't make them poor games but it's a shame that this once evocative aspect of videogame art has been sidelined for base technical progress.

I thought Eschatos' very energetic and - towards the end - aggressive atmosphere that shows in more than its gameplay is one of its strongest points, making it possibly my favourite shooting game of all time. It's not really the feel of a wider universe as you pointed out, but it really does have its own distinctive feel to me and I like it.

As for R-Type, I haven't played it enough to make a fair judgement. Just came to babble about my unrelated favourite game.

[Cagar]

Probably obvious Darius-related stuff but

Ogura composed the music with the concept of, "a large existence," that being the large bosses in the game and the expansiveness of the universe.

That's neat

[Weak Boson]

I spent a bit of time playing R-Type in an unconventional way. It was when I was first getting into shmups and 1CCing things wasn't as much my concern as simply seeing the whole game. The version in R-Types on the PS1 has a level select that lets you skip to previously reached levels. So from the beginning I played each stage starting with zero power, getting to the next checkpoint, then usually dying and playing the final section unpowered-up too. IIRC I got to the penultimate level in this manner, and it was damn hard but actually really fun. Each section had its own little cadence; the slow, feeble, force-less stage requiring careful planning; getting powered up and working to how to make the most of the complex but not over-powered weapon; and the glorious fully powered up endgame where you can lay waste to everything provided you focus.

So I always considered the game to have pretty awesome level design; avoiding the environmental obstacles, knowing where enemies would spawn and how they'd behave afterwards; wasting time on non-threats and not taking appropriate risks, even just being slightly out of position at a given moment could get you killed. It felt like it required real choreography.

But I never played the game for the 1CC. I imagine some of those sharp edges I enjoyed before would be dulled if going through them full force - but how much I don't know.

[Doctor Butler]

R-Type nails the whole "sci-fi horror bio-mechanical nightmare-scape" schtick better than HR Giger.

And it's music is creepy too.

[system11]

Of course, a top-25 is about listing the current best, not best for their time or most influential.

The voting thread is 'best of all time' so it's valid to put things there for historic reasons anyway.

[Special World]

I definitely prefer vertical shooters, but it'd maybe be nice if they included more environmental obstacles. I don't get why they don't, honestly. Yeah, this stuff might not look as cool from top down, but surely you can throw something in there. Like those floating islands in Futari; they're great, and they add a lot of flair. So why not have the player fly alongside impenetrable battleships, or through caves, or whatever? I don't really get why there's such a clear-cut divide between verts and horis.

[CStarFlare]

Hazards are literally the reason I don't care to spend much time with Radiant Silvergun or Ikaruga, and are one of the reasons I tend to prefer verts in general.

[mastermx]

There are verts with environmental obstacles. Like Ikaruga, RSG, Kingdom Grand prix, image fight etc

Edit: also the vert sections in the salamander series

[system11]

The reason you don't see them anymore is they don't work too well in bullet hell games, and that's nearly the only thing people have been making for a while.

[Special World]

The reason I don't spend much time with Radiant Silvergun is because it's the slowest shooter of all time. And if I don't spend time with Ikaruga, it's because the scoring system is terrible and it's a bit bloodless compared to other shooters (I still really enjoy it, though).

I'm not even saying the environment has to be particularly pronounced. I myself tend to hate areas that you have to navigate pixel by pixel, nudging your ship into various crevices. But maybe like... in those instances where bullet patterns tend to block off a large section of the screen, why not do something more interesting with that? Why not have the occasional floating obstacle that splits the screen in two, and allows you the choice between facing one bullet pattern or another? I think it's a bit of a lost opportunity, that there's not even a light-handed attempt at it. Classic horis are way too ruthless with their environments, but surely there's an in-between somewhere? Where they're present and part of the flavor but not intended to be a main source of challenge?

[Squire Grooktook]

The reason you don't see them anymore is they don't work too well in bullet hell games, and that's nearly the only thing people have been making for a while.

I don't see why not. Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga have issues, but those issues have nothing to do with the excellent use of walls and environmental hazards. Those games really show that they can be done excellently in a game with a tiny hitbox.

*edit* also Gradius V puts them to amazing use too and has a roughly 2x2 pixel hitbox.

Also I do think Dodonpachi, Eschatos, Touhou, etc. all have their own distinctive atmospheres. Different than R-Type/Gradius/Darius, for sure, but each of those is different anyway. It's definitely there if you look for it, just like with the older games.

[Special World]

I would say that Eschatos has some of the strongest direction in any shooter. It might not be oppressive like R-Type and DOJ, but that part when the music changes, your ship exits the atmosphere, and you see all the stars in the sky is probably my #1 shooter moment of all time.

[Cagar]

I would say that Eschatos has some of the strongest direction in any shooter. It might not be oppressive like R-Type and DOJ, but that part when the music changes, your ship exits the atmosphere, and you see all the stars in the sky is probably my #1 shooter moment of all time.

Thanks for spoiling your #1 shooter moment of all time, I was just going to order the game. Well, good luck to everyone who experienced it without knowing about it beforehand.

[Squire Grooktook]

I would say that Eschatos has some of the strongest direction in any shooter. It might not be oppressive like R-Type and DOJ, but that part when the music changes, your ship exits the atmosphere, and you see all the stars in the sky is probably my #1 shooter moment of all time.

Thanks for spoiling your #1 shooter moment of all time, I was just going to order the game. Well, good luck to everyone who experienced it without knowing about it beforehand.

It's the execution of the scene, not the concept that's memorable. It'll still impress you no less for having already heard about it.

[ZacharyB]

It's not spoiled! Now you'll get to experience it for yourself.

[MJR]

R-type had probably more fresh ideas put together than any other shmup, bar only salamander.

Whereas in many other games the enemies just feel like sprites, in R-type they seem to have lots of personality. It has better art direction and execution than most of the other games, in terms of collaboration of the style, atmosphere, enemy shapes, movement and weak points. Almost every enemy feels totally unique in many ways.

I've seen FAR too many shooters where the attention has been 1.draw pretty sprite 2.move it around, with no thought at all to what it actually is doing on the screen, and why, in terms of interaction with the player. In many games, enemies are either just popcorn or obstacles to be drilled in order to continue. In R-type, you have to pay real attention and thought to the enemy weakpoints and behaviour, and figuring it out is very rewarding.

I could probably write an essay on why R-types design is head and shoulders above many other games, though it probably no longer is the king of shoot' em ups as it has aged, like every other game from the 80's.

Anyway, that's just my quick blurb as a lifelong R-type fanatic, and I doubt it does any serious justice to as why this game is so uniquely well made and thought out.

[Special World]

I would say that Eschatos has some of the strongest direction in any shooter. It might not be oppressive like R-Type and DOJ, but that part when the music changes, your ship exits the atmosphere, and you see all the stars in the sky is probably my #1 shooter moment of all time.

Thanks for spoiling your #1 shooter moment of all time, I was just going to order the game. Well, good luck to everyone who experienced it without knowing about it beforehand.

It's definitely *the* pivotal plot point in Eschatos' gripping narrative.

[BIL]

Nothing beats Zuntata's soundtracks. But I do think all the classic horizontal-scroll series have their own unique and very strong atmosphere:

Darius really makes you feel the insignificance of human existence in the face of the vastness of space and millions of years of different lifeforms evolving. The soundtrack underscores this "mystery of life" theme for me.

Gradius is like the ultimate space opera. Emboldened by the upbeat soundtrack you experience the heroism of man challenging the universe against all odds and realizing a world of infinite possibility.

R-Type, like none other, makes you feel the hopelessness and inescapable horror of death. The world of R-Type is one of permanent existential threat, cold and dangerous, with no consolation, only the certainty that even if you win the battle, humanity will not win the war, if nothing else, because it will the master of its own downfall.

I might be reading too much into these games, but it's this kind of atmospheric "density" and overarching theme or Weltanschauung that's missing in a lot of newer games. Some Cave games have it (Guwange, DOJ, for example) but others just leave me cold.

I think this is also the reason Battle Garegga is considered by so many (rightly) to be the greatest shooter ever made. It has it all: intense pacing, deep scoring, brilliant presentation/atmosphere — the perfect blend of old and new school!

This is what I've always felt from those three iconic series, but never quite been able to articulate as you just did. I recently played Darius Force for the first time, and right from its intro that classic Darius theme of mankind as a small, struggling thing in an indifferent universe drew me in.

For me this genre's primary strength is its housing of radically diverse game types within a common no-nonsense framework. At the same time I love slower-paced atmospheric games. So shooters like Garegga and R-Type Delta that manage to thread real style and mood through arcade-tight focus and pacing always feel like getting the best of both worlds. Black Heart and its flock tearing free of their mothership's belly against a stormy black sky, or the titanic walker shattering ice and demolishing scenery beneath each thunderous step as a blizzard howls - those are sights worthy of any adventure, incorporated seamlessly into lethal, unfolding action.

[nosorrow]

I would say that Eschatos has some of the strongest direction in any shooter. It might not be oppressive like R-Type and DOJ, but that part when the music changes, your ship exits the atmosphere, and you see all the stars in the sky is probably my #1 shooter moment of all time.

Thanks for spoiling your #1 shooter moment of all time, I was just going to order the game. Well, good luck to everyone who experienced it without knowing about it beforehand.

It's the execution of the scene, not the concept that's memorable. It'll still impress you no less for having already heard about it.

Funny, it reminds me of the first time I played Musha back in the late 90s: upon seeing the floor tiles falling down in a deep creek in level 2 (or is it 3?), I was in awe. A friend of mine had told me about it beforehand, but the impression was still quite strong. And still now, every time I cross that section of the game, it never fails to amaze. It will never be "spoiled".

[BIL]

^ stage 3, definitely. It's the craftsmanship that makes such scenes immortal, I believe. The way each individual tile gradually disappears out of view before exploding as it hits the lava miles below, the collective impacts creating a rash of fiery pinpoints - that use of finel pixel detail to convey immense distance and velocity impresses me every time. It's rather like the screen-jarring explosion of shattered glass and masonry accompanying the Behemoth's entrance in stage 2 of Dracula X - even absent novelty, the impact is always palpable.

[zaphod]

R-Type is very much a memorizer, because it's full of seemingly difficult parts that become incredibly easy as soon as you know what to do. Everyone who has tried scoring in a difficult game knows that's not the case there.

WHat sets r-type apart from your typical annoying memory test is that the game is really good about giving you hints. Knowing what to do helps a lot, but death is not guaranteed on your first time. There's a logic to the game, and once you see it, "memorizing" is not so much of an issue. For the first three levels you are given plenty of reaction time to work things out and plan your strategy on the fly. Level four is the first real challenge, and it has plenty of clues that certain areas might not be safe to stay in, and that moving your force to the other side might help like it did in level 3. you can stay away from the edges and dodge by the seat of your pants and still live. But once you know where the dot making enemies come from, it's very easy to remember where they are, because the telegraphing jogs your memory.

just having watched someone else do it, you have a pretty good chance of reaching level five. it's boss will probably still kill you the first few times, because it's the first real execution challenge in the game.

[Axelay]

Where is the love for delta ?
A lot of people have mentioned all the great points which make rtype such a great game,like atmosphere music.

Something else which is great about the rtype series is the progression in each game.
Rtype 3 has different forces you can use which is nice for replay value ,with the forces you have cool new weapons. Also the beam! I love hyper . And the one that shoots lots of shots .

Leo is cool and has the bydo bits which you can charge and is two player !

Delta . My god delta , 3 fucking awesome ships the delta special which is OP the music in stage 2 changing from air to water . And stage 3's boss is the stage!?it's fucking crazy

Final , gloomy no hope 100 ships , changing stages .

There a lot in there peeps
Come on try them out .

[R-Gray 1]

Delta . My god delta , 3 fucking awesome ships the delta special which is OP the music in stage 2 changing from air to water . And stage 3's boss is the stage!?it's fucking crazy

Delta Stage 3 is just amazing!.

[Pretas]

Leo is by a large margin the weakest of the arcade R-Types. It's far too easy, which doesn't allow the unique Force mechanics to be properly explored. Graphics and the funky OST are nice, though.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I actually rather like Leo. Sure, it's nowhere near as mechanically involved as earlier entries, but I kind of like its simple charm. The homing power shot is fun to use.