Raiden 4 Overkill and Caladrius getting PS3 release

[HydrogLox]

Caladrius delayed to summer

Well, at least Raiden IV is still on track for PS3 release, unless that too doesn't get delayed.

Confusing to me as to why a straight port would have quality issues.

According to this "Raiden IV Overkill" is Moss's first PS3 product. So it is easy to imagine that the Raiden IV port/arrangement tied up key resources longer than expected, delaying (the start of?) the Caladrius port. Originally the Japanese "Raiden IV Overkill" release was set for April 15 only to be rescheduled to April 24. Being currently totally focused on meeting the "Raiden IV Overkill" release deadline, they may not know 1) when the Caladrius porting effort will be fully resourced and 2) how the experience of the "Raiden IV Overkill" PS3 porting effort will impact the estimates for the Caladrius port.

[parallaxscroll2]

We get Raiden IV: Overkill on 4/29


http://ufointeractivegames.com/ufomeansaction/

Japanese trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIIKNFaUd1g

[Pretas]

I'm waiting until we know for certain whether or not OverKill Mode will be added as DLC to the 360 version of Raiden IV. Since UFO also handled that version, it would be sure to make it to the US.

[BulletMagnet]

Caladrius preorders are up on NCSX.

[spadgy]

I've lost track rather of all this re digital/physical releases and dates. Just to surmise the details here, are the following correct?

• Raiden IV Overkill is digital-only for PS3. Currently out in Japan; heading to the US on April 29th.

• Caladrius Blaze is getting physical and digital PS3 release. Has been delayed. Japan only and out June 26th. Standard and LEs due.

Also, Caladrius Blaze LE comes with a music CD and 'drama CD'. What on earth is a 'drama CD'?

[ACSeraph]

What on earth is a 'drama CD'?

It's sort of like an old radio drama, like a play. Not really sure why they think shmup players would want that... Must be part of Caladrius' "It's an eroge, buy it otaku! No really! Where are you going!?" sales campaign.

[HydrogLox]

• Raiden IV Overkill is digital-only for PS3. Currently out in Japan; heading to the US on April 29th.
• Caladrius Blaze is getting physical and digital PS3 release. Has been delayed. Japan only and out June 26th. Standard and LEs due.

• Caladrius Blaze does not have a definitive release date. The original 2014-Jun-26 release date has been abandoned. It's now a "summer" release - i.e. the are trying to release it sometime before 2014-Sep-23 (first day of autumn) - but they simply do not know when it will be ready.
• Raiden IV Overkill is not out in Japan. Release was originally set for 2014-Apr-15 and then moved to 2014-Apr-24. Given the dust up with Caladrius Blaze I think there is the potential for further delays for Raiden IV Overkill.

As such "Caladrius Blaze" could still be cancelled if "Raiden IV Overkill" fails to sell on the Japanese PSN. On the flip side if "Raiden IV Overkill" does well on the Japanese PSN, MOSS might milk the market further by releasing a "limited collectors Raiden IV Overkill" (i.e. no regular edition) once all the patching has been done - and hopefully (if they know their market) they'll include a physical PS3 game disc instead of a DLC code.

[Pretas]

It would be a tremendous disappointment if Moss decided that Caladrius Blaze's very existence is going to directly hinge on the sales of OverKill PS3. I hope they're honest about it and give fair warning if that's the case.

[spadgy]

• Raiden IV Overkill is digital-only for PS3. Currently out in Japan; heading to the US on April 29th.
• Caladrius Blaze is getting physical and digital PS3 release. Has been delayed. Japan only and out June 26th. Standard and LEs due.

• Caladrius Blaze does not have a definitive release date. The original 2014-Jun-26 release date has been abandoned. It's now a "summer" release - i.e. the are trying to release it sometime before 2014-Sep-23 (first day of autumn) - but they simply do not know when it will be ready.
• Raiden IV Overkill is not out in Japan. Release was originally set for 2014-Apr-15 and then moved to 2014-Apr-24. Given the dust up with Caladrius Blaze I think there is the potential for further delays for Raiden IV Overkill.

As such "Caladrius Blaze" could still be cancelled if "Raiden IV Overkill" fails to sell on the Japanese PSN. On the flip side if "Raiden IV Overkill" does well on the Japanese PSN, MOSS might milk the market further by releasing a "limited collectors Raiden IV Overkill" (i.e. no regular edition) once all the patching has been done - and hopefully (if they know their market) they'll include a physical PS3 game disc instead of a DLC code.

Thanks HydrogLox! Very helpful. And I'm right about Blaze being physical AND digital, while Overkill is just physical (at least that's the plan)?

Considering preorders open for Blaze in two editions, hopefully cancellation isn't likely.

And Moss; on the off chance you're reading, I would adore an physical Overkill Limited Edition!

[CloudyMusic]

What on earth is a 'drama CD'?

It's sort of like an old radio drama, like a play. Not really sure why they think shmup players would want that... Must be part of Caladrius' "It's an eroge, buy it otaku! No really! Where are you going!?" sales campaign.

Audio dramas seem to be a surprisingly big draw for casual fans, for some reason. Even Beatmania IIDX (a music game series in which its "characters" are just static art shown at the end of each song, and in some song videos) has had five separate audio dramas published. I have no goddamn idea.

[HydrogLox]

It would be a tremendous disappointment if Moss decided that Caladrius Blaze's very existence is going to directly hinge on the sales of OverKill PS3.

It might not. Surprisingly according to vgchartz Raiden IV Xbox360 sold 8089 units in Japan (87317 in the US) while Caladrius Xbox360 sold 12927 units in Japan (all region locked). So on paper Caladrius actually looks more promising for the Japanese domestic market. But for all we know it's the US PSN sales that will determine whether or not there will be funding to complete the Caladrius Blaze port.

I hope they're honest about it and give fair warning if that's the case.

I don't know about "honest" - but I consider abandoning a release date without specific replacement a warning.

Qute abandoned the 2012-Aug-30 release date for Ginga Force and it's release didn't happen until 2013-Feb-14. Moss is facing additional challenges:

• Porting Raiden IV Overkill may have shown them that it is more effort to port to the PS3 than they initially estimated.
• In 2014 the PS3 is a last-gen console so the window of "sales" opportunity is closing.

So I can't see how Raiden IV Overkill's sales cannot factor into the decision of whether or not to complete the Caladrius port.

[spadgy]

I see your points HydrogLox, but if they've already developed this extra stage, it would seem quite excessive to cancel it.

Amazed to see Caladrius outsold Raiden IV in Japan. It seems character art is more important than series heritage!

[HydrogLox]

but if they've already developed this extra stage

So far all I have seen is a promise for an additional stage dating back to December 20 (2013). The June 26 release was announced March 6 (2014) and then retracted March 20. Something happened.
There is no trailer showing off this new stage. And even if it does exist - it could well be stuck on a development system for the arcade version waiting for porting (to resume? to start? - who knows).

Of course there is another option - re-target to the PS4. It may be less expensive to port to the PS4 as it is supposed to be more PC-like (Caladrius AC runs on a Sega RingEdge 2 - Intel Core i3 540 3.07 GHz/Nvidia GeForce GT 545 GDDR5 1GB/4GB DDR3 SDRAM/Windows Embedded Standard 2012(Windows 7)).

[trap15]

Being on a PC hardware means nothing in terms of portability if the OS is different (which it is).

[HydrogLox]

True - but it's a matter of "It's really not easy, but it's certainly much easier" as even for some multi-platform titles the complexity of the PS3 cell architecture was blamed for sub-par PS3 implementations (Orange Box, Bayonetta, Skyrim, etc.). I don't think Moss was initially planning on re-implementing Raiden IV and Caladrius from the ground up to run optimally on the PS3 - especially not 7 years into the console's lifecycle - they were hoping for a quick fix port.

Just looking at the CPUs for each of the systems:

• Taito Type X: Intel Celeron (2.5 GHz) [Raiden IV]
• Xbox 360: 3 x PPE (3.2GHz) [Raiden IV, Caladrius]
• Sega RingEdge 2: Intel Core i3 540 (3.07 GHz, 2 cores) [Caladrius AC]
• PS3: 1 x PPE (3.2GHz), 6(+1) x SPE
• PS4: x86-64 AMD “Jaguar”, (1.6 GHz 8 cores)

Raiden IV Overkill is probably just running on the single PowerPC Processing Element in the PS3 - maybe with the Synergistic Processing Elements doing some occasional work. For Caladrius (originally developed on a homogeneous multi core system) more work would have to be off-loaded to the SPEs - which are not that easy to exploit. At least on the PS4 all the available cores are "equally useful".

[Phellan Wolf]

In any case Moss has found more troubles than they initiallh thought they'll have that is for sure, since they wanted the quick port something not that easy when you're not used to an unknown hardaware, just like a blind person wich can not see.
Although they're also waiting for the consumer reaction and dlc's through psn store. Time will tell

[trap15]

Sorry HydrogLox, I don't think you know what you're talking about.

[Pretas]

It could also be that Blaze's delay is solely due to quality concerns and problems with porting the game to PS3, and they are not considering a cancellation.

[Cuilan]

Amazed to see Caladrius outsold Raiden IV in Japan. It seems character art is more important than series heritage!

It probably has a bit more to do with Raiden IV's gameplay being seen as way too archaic. The character art thing definitely helps though.

[spadgy]

Quite possibly. I'd of guessed the heritage would still outweigh that. But then I'd have guessed Raiden IV would trump Caladrius in the unit shifting stakes, so I clearly don't know what I'm talking about!

[nZero]

Raiden IV also came out before any of the Cave releases hit the 360, and had an appropriately late-Dreamcast-release-sized print run, much like RFA and SnS3 before it. The first 360 shmup I can think of with a larger than fun-sized print run was Otomedius G, which had the benefit of Konami backing distribution.

Here's hoping they get the sales they need from their (360->Nesica->PS3?) ports and get the resources to actually go ahead with backporting the updates for RIV and Caladrius to the original 360 releases at some point.

[Phellan Wolf]

I really want that Mosss succeds with these ports. I don't want to see another company go bankaruptcy the way Warashi and Milestone went.
Chances are high that this time around they'll probably be getting more proffit with digital only release for Raiden IV. I really hope it so we can see a new entry in the series or a new game.

[Guardians Knight]

Noob question alert! Sorry in advance.

How easy is it run japanese games on your u.k ps3?

[Pretas]

Noob question alert! Sorry in advance.

How easy is it run japanese games on your u.k ps3?

Easy, just insert the disc or download the files. All PS3 games besides Persona 4 Arena are region free.

[spadgy]

It could also be that Blaze's delay is solely due to quality concerns and problems with porting the game to PS3, and they are not considering a cancellation.

Yeah. Looking back, is there any evidence of or hint about possible cancellation from Moss, or was that literally just pulled out the air here in this thread and without being based on anything? I think it's the latter. Or is it some educated guess? Even if it's that it seems based on little more than abstracted musing that it could possible happen because anything is possible. Or maybe I missed something!

And while I'm on questions, still not sure I'm right re my previous post. Is it that Raiden IV is just due to be digital, while Caladrius Blaze is physical and digital?

Noob question alert! Sorry in advance.

How easy is it run japanese games on your u.k ps3?

You've been a member long enough not to get away with calling yourself a n00b anymore mate!

[Pretas]

And while I'm on questions, still not sure I'm right re my previous post. Is it that Raiden IV is just due to be digital, while Caladrius Blaze is physical and digital?

All correct, except that Caladrius Blaze currently has no solid release date.

[HydrogLox]

Is there any evidence of or hint about possible cancellation from Moss, or was that literally just pulled out the air here in this thread and without being based on anything? I think it's the latter. Or is it some educated guess?

It was conjecture based on the fact that Moss announced a release date about 3 months in the future only to retract it entirely 2 weeks later without a precise replacement date and without explanation - that is a big red flag - it would have inspired more confidence if they would have simply stuck to "sometime in 2014" and never announced a precise date. Delays happen - but going from a definitive publicly announced date to no date at all is a warning (even if none is intended). They can't keep pouring man-hours (salaries) into the port indefinitely - as the product can only generate a finite return.

The simplest explanation could be that a critical team member has become temporarily/permanently unavailable and Moss simply doesn't know how long it will take for the replacement resource to be up and running. That is a scenario that has the lowest risk of product cancellation - as long as it doesn't make the porting effort much more expensive.

But this is also happening against the background of Moss suddenly deciding to port product to the PS3 - a "sunset technology" that over the years always had the reputation of being (a lot) more difficult to develop for compared to Xbox 360 or Windows PC. It would be less surprising if it was known that they are simply supervising the port by a developer already familiar with the platform - but as it stands it looks like they are doing it themselves - so it looks like they are investing time and money to acquire a skill set which is already diminishing in value (unless Moss intends on becoming a PS3 Technology Hospice).

Both Raiden IV (2007) and Caladrius (2013) run on the same hardware (Xbox 360 (2005)) but Caladrius AC had more "legroom" on the Sega RingEdge 2 (2012). As the more recent game Caladrius may have made more effective/direct use of the Xbox 360 hardware - which in turn could make it more difficult to port than Raiden IV. A successful PS3 PSN release of Raiden IV Overkill on April 24/29 would definitely be a good sign - but it doesn't follow that the Caladrius (AC) port will be "just as straightforward".

Yes - a lot of the conjecture - but someone is making some hard to explain decisions at Moss.

As with any game release, you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you are getting yourself excited before it "goes gold".

[cfx]

.

[HydrogLox]

Looks like the PSN-JP release of Raiden IV Overkill has been pushed back to 2014-05-13.
http://raiden.mossjp.co.jp/

I would expect UFO Interactive to soon follow suit with a delay to 2014-05-20 for the PSN-US release.
http://ufointeractivegames.com/app/raiden-iv-overkill/

[Phellan Wolf]

Looks like the PSN-JP release of Raiden IV Overkill has been pushed back to 2014-05-13.
http://raiden.mossjp.co.jp/

I would expect UFO Interactive to soon follow suit with a delay to 2014-05-20 for the PSN-US release.
http://ufointeractivegames.com/app/raiden-iv-overkill/

More troubles than they thought they would have??
Translating and adding new content from the original 360 version looks like may not be that easy to them. I hope for God's sake they launch the game on time. They're one of the last developpers to be focused on the genre.